[360, PS3] Crysis 2

[nightshade]

I also just noticed in a vid and then tried for myself you can still shoot down the few trees in the Skyline level (except for a couple in containers), the old signature Crysis effect, and AFAIK not really replicated on any other console (or PC) game besides something dedicated to it like Red Faction. Pretty cool

Well we had that in Farcry 2

 

[Sigfried1977]

I think you only could shoot off a couple of twigs in FC2. The trunks remained standing no matter what you did to them. Still, a couple of effects were pretty awesome. I especially loved throwing grenades because of how convincing it looked when the leaves got blown away. God, thinking back to FC2 makes me sad. So much wasted potential.

 

[nintenho]

You could shoot off the branches in Far Cry 2 and then watch them grow back if you were bored:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtHjmYowv8Y

It would be interesting if a fps multiplayer map had a day/night cycle. I can't think of any at all that did that, it would add a layer of complexity the gameplay.

 

[N_B]

You could shoot off the branches in Far Cry 2 and then watch them grow back if you were bored:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtHjmYowv8Y

It would be interesting if a fps multiplayer map had a day/night cycle. I can't think of any at all that did that, it would add a layer of complexity the gameplay.

Far Cry 2 custom maps could do that, but only if you put the time of day at sunrise or sunset, because otherwise the match wouldn't last long enough to have significant changes in the lighting and visibility.

It's a shame Dunia hasn't been used more.

 

[nightshade]

Its so sad that people forget about FC2 when talking about tech, I still think its mighty impressive of them (more so than Crysis 2) to achieve so much on consoles and all this while being a completely open world game.

I think you only could shoot off a couple of twigs in FC2. The trunks remained standing no matter what you did to them.

Yea they didn't break but they did sway if the explosion was powerful enough.
Anyways you couldn't break the trunks in Crysis either, the only ones which had breakable trunks were the coconut/palm trees.

It would be interesting if a fps multiplayer map had a day/night cycle. I can't think of any at all that did that, it would add a layer of complexity the gameplay.

Crysis did that...but it was only available on Dx10 servers (cause being Dx10 automatically meant the people playing would have a decent enough PC and hence not bog down the server with low performance)

 

[Rangers]

Anyways you couldn't break the trunks in Crysis either, the only ones which had breakable trunks were the coconut/palm trees.

umm,. ok, contradiction there. You can break the trunks in Crysis. You cant in Far Cry.

I didn't know Far Cry 2 had something like that too though.

I was never impressed with Far Cry 2's graphics though, not surprised it didn't catch on. Always seemed just a lot of icky brown and red. I much prefer a lush tropical setting.

 

[nightshade]

umm,. ok, contradiction there. You can break the trunks in Crysis. You cant in Far Cry.

I phrased it incorrectly, what I am trying to say is that the coconut trees were the only ones with breakable trunks, the bigger trees didn't even had breakable twigs and branches. In Farcry 2 you could break the trunks of smaller trees as well.

I was never impressed with Far Cry 2's graphics though, not surprised it didn't catch on. Always seemed just a lot of icky brown and red. I much prefer a lush tropical setting.

You are mixing the tech with art direction

 

[Neb]

I phrased it incorrectly, what I am trying to say is that the coconut trees were the only ones with breakable trunks, the bigger trees didn't even had breakable twigs and branches. In Farcry 2 you could break the trunks of smaller trees as well.

Actually youre not completly correct. You can break trunks of coconut trees but also thin trees of varying types (which are used quite a lot). These makeup for about 80+ percent of the tree based vegetation. Now bushes cant be broken but pretty much all vegetation bar grass and some sprite based decorations in a few places (maybe in CW) is soft vegetation. This part was bad in FC2 as the geometry complexity for soft vegetation was low and it was animated movement when colliding with player unlike Crysis. Though FC2 wind system and tree leaf movement was great.

The trees that cant be broken are the big ones with thick to really thick trunks. It makes sense that these cant break but I think the real reason is these trees are can be so big it might break gameplay and AI or just look odd when it collides with tons of other smaller trees and objects.

 

[NotTarts]

You are mixing the tech with art direction

The two can be synonymous in some cases. The Dunia engine has tech, but something about it just feels 'off'. Maybe it's the lighting or something, but it just didn't click with me:

 

[N_B]

There's no AO or *real* motion blur (not counting the horrible filters than go on screen when you run). The grass is weird too.

But I kind of like it's consistency better than Crysis. The better AA support especially. The godrays are also nice.

 

[nintenho]

Crysis did that...but it was only available on Dx10 servers (cause being Dx10 automatically meant the people playing would have a decent enough PC and hence not bog down the server with low performance)

It's not just about eye candy, I'm thinking that you encourage the players to use different tactics or weapons depending on how much light there is. It changes whether or not you would need to use invisibility, a suppressor for your gun (for muzzle flash), and so on. Similar to how the different vision modes matter a lot in the Rainbow 6 games I guess.

 

[NotTarts]

There's no AO or *real* motion blur (not counting the horrible filters than go on screen when you run). The grass is weird too.

But I kind of like it's consistency better than Crysis. The better AA support especially. The godrays are also nice.

I dunno, it just looks 'wrong'; almost half-cartoony. Maybe I'm just going insane

 

[nightshade]

The grass is weird too.

Weird as in real looking weird ?
http://www.anthonymattox.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/africa_photo_grass.jpg
http://www.worldofstock.com/slides/NAN2144.jpg

This part was bad in FC2 as the geometry complexity for soft vegetation was low and it was animated movement when colliding with player unlike Crysis.

I thought it used physics instead of animated movements, I mean the leaves, grass and most other foliage would interact with the player/car and bend according to him/it. I'm pretty sure I once double checked to see if its animated movement or really player interaction and I found it to be the latter.

 

[NotTarts]

(what the hell, forgot that I posted )

 

[pjbliverpool]

I dunno, it just looks 'wrong'; almost half-cartoony. Maybe I'm just going insane

I'm actually playing through it at the moment and I agree. Coming off the back of Crysis Warhead it definately has a more cartoony/computer graphics look to it than the level of realism Crysis hits. That said it's still a pretty fine looking game when maxed out.

 

[NotTarts]

Alright, back on topic

Which brings me to the point, as long as the levels don't have lots of moving lightsources (or even one major lightsource like the sun), I'd be happy to have a baked GI solution as seen in Mirror's Edge/Uncharted over a real time one as seen in Crysis 2.

I'm going to quote a level designer (Daniel Phillips, maybe you've heard of him):

Epic’s Unreal Engine: There is a reason the vast majority of the gaming industry uses this engine to develop their games. It’s robust, offers a wide range of development tools, has a fairly short learning curve, and produces outstanding visuals. But, nothing is perfect. The engine is still based on the ancient BSP tree model. Couple that with baked lighting and iteration can become very cumbersome. While working on A:CM it took up to 2-3 hours to do a complete rebuild and compile of BSP, Lighting and Navigation. This is a huge hindrance on iteration.

Cryteks CryEngine 3: As you’ve guess, I’ve saved the best for last I really can’t say enough good things about this engine. The first thing is no compiling!. Absolutely every light you see in game is either Deferred or Dynamic. There is no baked shadows or lighting. This by itself is enough to take the crown, but it doesn’t stop here. CryEngine 3 is NOT based on the old BSP Tree model. There is a tool within Sandbox that allows the user to create Solids (CryEngines version of BSP), but they require no compiling! All of this equals one very important thing - Rapid Iteration. While I could go on and on about other features, I do want to mention that Flowgraph is by far the most powerful scripting GUI I have used. It lacks a few key features that Kismet (UnrealEd) has (such as Remote Events Print to Screen debugging). But this is compensated for by the sheer quantity of operations provided (Math, Vec, Int, String, etc). This gives the scripter literally all the tools they need to do what ever your crazy mind can think of.

From what I can see, it can easily affect consumers. Faster development time = lower costs = more content and/or lower prices for end users. :smile:

Also, are there any decent uncompressed shots out there from the 360 demo? These 100kb blurry/blocky pictures are frustrating and it makes comparing IQ almost useless.

 

[Neb]

I thought it used physics instead of animated movements, I mean the leaves, grass and most other foliage would interact with the player/car and bend according to him/it. I'm pretty sure I once double checked to see if its animated movement or really player interaction and I found it to be the latter.

Not for player interaction on bendable vegetation. Walking onto grass or bushes have them bend in a straight linear path with no resistance nor proper weight/gravity when force is released. In Crysis vegetation bent has spring effect when releasing pressure making vegetation sway for a while according to it's characteristics and 'energy' absorbed. Also bullets and other objects affects vegetation the same in Crysis as player interaction which IIRC is not true for FC2 (bullets).

I dunno, it just looks 'wrong'; almost half-cartoony. Maybe I'm just going insane

More stylised but it still got a decent 'realistic' look in full glory.

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1380957&postcount=1054
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1380958&postcount=1055

 

[L. Scofield]

Judging by those CVars posted, audio seems to have gotten upgraded big, none of this commands existed in Crysis:

s_VariationLimiter = 0.3 -- FOR SUBMISSIONS TO EA QA, WILL BE ADJUSTED OVER TIME!!
s_Obstruction = 1
s_ObstructionAccuracy = 1
s_ObstructionUpdate = 0.5
s_SoundMoodsDSP=1
s_ReverbType=0

And I'm glad they introduced this: sys_maxfps = 30 No more jumpiness in framerate when you look at the sky and the like xD

 

[nightshade]

Also bullets and other objects affects vegetation the same in Crysis as player interaction which IIRC is not true for FC2 (bullets).

yea I see what you mean, although they did tone bullet interaction in Warhead considerably...but atleast can enable it through config :smile:

 

[Neb]

Judging by those CVars posted, audio seems to have gotten upgraded big, none of this commands existed in Crysis:

s_VariationLimiter = 0.3 -- FOR SUBMISSIONS TO EA QA, WILL BE ADJUSTED OVER TIME!!
s_Obstruction = 1
s_ObstructionAccuracy = 1
s_ObstructionUpdate = 0.5
s_SoundMoodsDSP=1
s_ReverbType=0

They do exist.

s_VariationLimiter=1
s_SoundMoodsDSP=1
s_Obstruction=1
s_ObstructionUpdate=0.1
s_ObstructionAccuracy=1
s_ReverbType=2

s_ADPCMDecoders=32 [ REQUIRE_APP_RESTART ]
s_CacheSize=80 [  ]
s_CompressedDialog=1 [  ]
s_DebugMusic=0 [ DUMPTODISK ]
s_DebugSound=0 [  ]
s_DialogVolume=1 [ DUMPTODISK ]
s_Doppler=1 [ DUMPTODISK ]
s_DopplerScale=1 [ DUMPTODISK ]
s_DrawObstruction=0 [  ]
s_DrawSounds=0 [  ]
s_DummySound=0 [ DUMPTODISK, REQUIRE_APP_RESTART ]
s_DumpEventStructure=0 [  ]
s_ErrorSound=1 [  ]
s_FormatResampler=1 [ REQUIRE_APP_RESTART ]
s_FormatSampleRate=48000 [ REQUIRE_APP_RESTART ]
s_FormatType=2 [ REQUIRE_APP_RESTART ]
s_GameDialogVolume=1 [  ]
s_GameMusicVolume=1 [  ]
s_GameSFXVolume=1 [  ]
s_HRTF_DSP=0 [ REQUIRE_APP_RESTART ]
s_InactiveSoundIterationTimeout=1 [ DUMPTODISK ]
s_LanguagesConversion=1 [  ]
s_LoadNonBlocking=1 [  ]
s_MaxActiveSounds=100 [ DUMPTODISK ]
s_MaxChannels=64 [ DUMPTODISK ]
s_MaxHWChannels=0 [ DUMPTODISK, REQUIRE_APP_RESTART ]
s_MinHWChannels=0 [ DUMPTODISK, REQUIRE_APP_RESTART ]
s_MinRepeatSoundTimeout=200 [ DUMPTODISK ]
s_MPEGCompression=2 [ DUMPTODISK ]
s_MPEGDecoders=32 [ REQUIRE_APP_RESTART ]
s_MusicEnable=1 [ DUMPTODISK ]
s_MusicMaxPatterns=12 [ DUMPTODISK ]
s_MusicSpeakerBackVolume=0 [ DUMPTODISK ]
s_MusicSpeakerCenterVolume=0 [ DUMPTODISK ]
s_MusicSpeakerFrontVolume=1 [ DUMPTODISK ]
s_MusicSpeakerLFEVolume=0.5 [ DUMPTODISK ]
s_MusicSpeakerSideVolume=0.5 [ DUMPTODISK ]
s_MusicStreamedData=1 [ DUMPTODISK ]
s_MusicVolume=1 [ DUMPTODISK ]
s_NetworkAudition=0 [ REQUIRE_APP_RESTART ]
s_Obstruction=1 [ REQUIRE_APP_RESTART ]
s_ObstructionAccuracy=1 [  ]
s_ObstructionMaxPierecability=100 [  ]
s_ObstructionMaxRadius=500 [  ]
s_ObstructionMaxValue=0.95 [  ]
s_ObstructionUpdate=0.1 [  ]
s_ObstructionVisArea=0.15 [  ]
s_OutputConfig=0 [ DUMPTODISK, REQUIRE_APP_RESTART ]
s_PlaybackFilter=0 [  ]
s_PrecacheData=1 [  ]
s_PriorityThreshold=45 [  ]
s_Profiling=0 [  ]
s_ReverbInstances=1 [  ]
s_ReverbType=2 [  ]
s_SFXVolume=1 [ DUMPTODISK ]
s_SoftwareChannels=256 [ DUMPTODISK, REQUIRE_APP_RESTART ]
s_SoundEnable=1 [ DUMPTODISK ]
s_SoundInfo=0 [  ]
s_SoundMoods=1 [  ]
s_SoundMoodsDSP=1 [  ]
s_SpeakerConfig=0 [ DUMPTODISK, REQUIRE_APP_RESTART ]
s_StopSoundsImmediately=0 [  ]
s_UnloadData=1 [  ]
s_VariationLimiter=1 [ REQUIRE_APP_RESTART ]
s_VisAreasPropagation=5 [ DUMPTODISK ]
s_Vol0TurnsVirtual=1 [ REQUIRE_APP_RESTART ]
s_XMADecoders=0 [ REQUIRE_APP_RESTART ]

And I'm glad they introduced this: sys_maxfps = 30 No more jumpiness in framerate when you look at the sky and the like xD

Yeah the sweetspot should be 38-40fps for perfect smoothness balance if solid 60fps cant be maintained.