157mpg

US highways are also sorted by speed (rightmost lane is "slow lane", leftmost lane is "fast lane", you always pass on the "left", if a faster driver is behind you, you're supposed to let them pass, etc)

That said, the problem isn't speed sorting, it's short acceleration zones in some highway merges. Even traveling at 40-55mph, people in slow ass cars (approximated by elderly drivers in any vehicle :) ) pose risks to people in the slow lane.

For that reason, I never drive in the slow lane unless my exit is the next one.
 
digitalwanderer said:
Nope, I think it's much more accurate to say I love my wife's japanese muscle car. :)


OT, something you'll love: I just watched the latest run for the world record in constant drifting on the Hockeheim Ring last weekend, and they made it without problems. The weapon of choice was the Z :)

The page is in german, but the pictures speak for themselves...
Here

EDIT:
Note, they HAD to drift all the time, no pauses. As soon as the car stabilizes even for a second, it's over! Crazy...
 
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This car is just a neat concept, but totally useless. Noone will want to drive this even if it should be produced one day.

The way to go is either electrics, fuel cell, H2 combustion engine or whatever else they might come up with. Fossil fuels will disappear in a few decades, but will still rule so long.

And frankly, whatever they say, I would not want to be involved in any kind of crash in this thing. Even a crash with a bicycle would make minced meat out of this.
 
_xxx_ said:
OT, something you'll love: I just watched the latest run for the world record in constant drifting on the Hockeheim Ring last weekend, and they made it without problems. The weapon of choice was the Z :)

The page is in german, but the pictures speak for themselves...
Here

EDIT:
Note, they HAD to drift all the time, no pauses. As soon as the car stabilizes even for a second, it's over! Crazy...
Just an aside to the OT, but they have computers controlling the wheels on most of the serious drift cars that make it a LOT easier to drift constantly in. Kind of like the "VDC" (vehicle dynamic control) that our Z has that we can turn on/off. With VDC on the wheels do NOT slip/slide/light up as the lil computers control them to make sure they don't, but if I turn VDC off the back end will light up and dance for me.

The drifters have an sort of inverted VDC where instead of making sure the wheels don't slip it makes sure they do.

I'm not saying the guy you linked to does, I just thought I'd mention it since someone pointed it out to me after linking to a killer drifting clip.

I can't wait 'til this summer to get the Z out on the track for the first time, that's where I'll REALLY play with it. :cool:
 
digitalwanderer said:
The drifters have an sort of inverted VDC where instead of making sure the wheels don't slip it makes sure they do.

They just turn VDC(ESP) off and there you go.

The guy made almost 2.5 hours, that's totally insane...
 
Notice that the guy uses the stock front wheels for the drift run but changes into a matching set for the beauty pictures? Or am I the only one that glaring difference jumped out at... :???:

(Sayeth the Dig waiting rather impatiently for the insurance claims inspector to show up so he can rip the guy a new one over his no longer matching front and back Z rims. ;) )
 
Natoma said:
I wonder when Carbon Nanotubes will be cheap enough to be able to mass produce them as car body shells. That would significantly lower the weight of cars while increasing their strength (tensile and compressive no?) over today's car bodies.


After we build the space elevator. :p
 
Natoma said:
I wonder when Carbon Nanotubes will be cheap enough to be able to mass produce them as car body shells. That would significantly lower the weight of cars while increasing their strength (tensile and compressive no?) over today's car bodies.
Not for a long, long time. "Plain" ol' carbon fiber composites still aren't cheap enough for mass market car production. In fact, you only see E-glass on a handful of automobiles. It's still usually cheaper to use either metal or IM plastics. Aside from the nano-tubes themselves being expensive, there's a lot of research necessary to figure out what (if any) matrix and methods are able to stick to them and produce a tough composite.

On another note, I'm not 100% sure but I doubt that nano-tubes in composites will behave substantially different in compression than "conventional" composites. A lot of the compressive strength is carried by the resin, and I don't see any reason why that would change.
 
over the past two decades efficiency has increased but the weight increased as much, that's why my 20 year-old car is comparable on mileage to nowadays car (no airbags, ABS and electronic shit though, but I don't give a damn.)
Depends what you're comparing against what. If I look at older American cars of 20 years ago to what they weigh today, the vast majority of them have indeed gotten lighter, though there's probably just as many that pretty much weigh the same, but I think that the fraction that have actually gotten heavier over the years isn't so much or is at least localized to specific segments of the market.

Of course, 20 years ago, American automakers weren't selling mini-hatchbacks and microvans and compact wagons to US customers.

I would say that a lot of Japanese makes have gotten heavier over the years, but they've also gotten correspondingly bigger inside. The Camry of 20 years ago was probably lighter than today's, but it would be a compact or possibly subcompact car by today's standards. Years ago, the Civic was considered a subcompact, but it now fits comfortably in the "compact" secion of the market. If it means that a modern Civic is now big enough to use as a carpool vehicle, I'd say the change is worth it.

I'd agree with you though, that weight reduction is generally a very good way to get up in gas mileage, but at the same time, people will feel safer in a heavier vehicle. And for good reason, of course. There's still a lot of room left to squeeze more efficiency out of the internal combustion engine, not that I think that every last one of them will see the light of day.

I'm not saying the guy you linked to does, I just thought I'd mention it since someone pointed it out to me after linking to a killer drifting clip.
He most likely does. Being able to lock the rear wheels is pretty much a necessity for a drift car. While a lot of RWD sports cars already come with limited-slip differentials, it's pretty standard in a drift car to setup or change the clutch packs so that you get a hard lock all the time.
 
The Power to overcome drag is
P=Cd (density) (Velocity^3)(Area)/2

We know the Velocity 160 km/h --> 44.4m/s
Power=20HP=14.914kW

Air density=1.25kg/m3

So Cd*A=0.2718m2

Now what do you think the Area is?

This is pointing towards a very low Coefficient of Drag, if anyone knows the area then you can find the Cd and compare it to other items such as rockets and so forth and see if it is believable to you.
 
Bigus Dickus said:
Not for a long, long time. "Plain" ol' carbon fiber composites still aren't cheap enough for mass market car production. In fact, you only see E-glass on a handful of automobiles. It's still usually cheaper to use either metal or IM plastics. Aside from the nano-tubes themselves being expensive, there's a lot of research necessary to figure out what (if any) matrix and methods are able to stick to them and produce a tough composite.

On another note, I'm not 100% sure but I doubt that nano-tubes in composites will behave substantially different in compression than "conventional" composites. A lot of the compressive strength is carried by the resin, and I don't see any reason why that would change.

What about a car body made entirely of carbon nanotubes? ;)
 
Well, I suppose it would be roughly as strong and as stiff as a car body made entirely out of carbon fibers. i.e., about as strong and as stiff as one made entirely out of cotton.

The fibers, individually, are very strong in tension but because of their extremely small cross sectional area have little in the way of bending stiffness. A rope is strong in tension because each fiber contributes its own strength to the total tension strength, which is the sum of that of the fibers. But since there is no binder in a rope, then the bending stiffness is also just the sum of that of the individual fibers. When you use a matrix to bind the fibers together they act much like a single fiber of the collective diameter (so long as the matrix has sufficient shear strength and adhesion properties), in that they all bend at once. Since bending stiffness increases with the cube of the thickness, this collective action increases effective bending strength several orders of magnitude.

Compressive strength, disregarding buckling, reduces to roughly the matrix compressive strength as the individual fibers are not able to resist microscopic buckling (which does not occur in tension) and thus contribute very little to the total.

The point being that a bunch of carbon nano-tubes would have no reason to stick to one another. Indeed, it seems like they don't like to stick to much of anything, which is a serious obstacle to be overcome on the road to develop their use in composites. And if the fibers do not stick to one another, you only get the sum of their individual behaviors instead of the macroscale collective behavior composites are famous for. I really can't see any way around using carbon nano-tubes for things other than tension cables except with the inclusion of a matrix.
 
Bigus Dickus said:
Well, I suppose it would be roughly as strong and as stiff as a car body made entirely out of carbon fibers. i.e., about as strong and as stiff as one made entirely out of cotton.

The fibers, individually, are very strong in tension but because of their extremely small cross sectional area have little in the way of bending stiffness. A rope is strong in tension because each fiber contributes its own strength to the total tension strength, which is the sum of that of the fibers. But since there is no binder in a rope, then the bending stiffness is also just the sum of that of the individual fibers. When you use a matrix to bind the fibers together they act much like a single fiber of the collective diameter (so long as the matrix has sufficient shear strength and adhesion properties), in that they all bend at once. Since bending stiffness increases with the cube of the thickness, this collective action increases effective bending strength several orders of magnitude.

Compressive strength, disregarding buckling, reduces to roughly the matrix compressive strength as the individual fibers are not able to resist microscopic buckling (which does not occur in tension) and thus contribute very little to the total.

The point being that a bunch of carbon nano-tubes would have no reason to stick to one another. Indeed, it seems like they don't like to stick to much of anything, which is a serious obstacle to be overcome on the road to develop their use in composites. And if the fibers do not stick to one another, you only get the sum of their individual behaviors instead of the macroscale collective behavior composites are famous for. I really can't see any way around using carbon nano-tubes for things other than tension cables except with the inclusion of a matrix.
1. Your name really annoys me.
2. Since you seem to be so educated on this, when would you imagine this nano-tubes technology can be used to make tension wires or used in matrix's?
 
Sxotty said:
The Power to overcome drag is
P=Cd (density) (Velocity^3)(Area)/2

We know the Velocity 160 km/h --> 44.4m/s
Power=20HP=14.914kW

Air density=1.25kg/m3

So Cd*A=0.2718m2

Now what do you think the Area is?

This is pointing towards a very low Coefficient of Drag, if anyone knows the area then you can find the Cd and compare it to other items such as rockets and so forth and see if it is believable to you.
You didn't need all that math to figure that out, did you?
 
HOLY FUCK, I JUST FOUND OUT THAT IN GERMANY MPG MEANS METERS PER GRAM!!!!

I'm not kidding. Three fucking pages. I really hope nobody else posted this already.
 
nintenho said:
1. Your name really annoys me.
2. Since you seem to be so educated on this, when would you imagine this nano-tubes technology can be used to make tension wires or used in matrix's?
1. And yours doesn't?
2. You want me to guess on when cutting edge materials research on something that has no guarantee of success at all will yield results? Erm, August 17 2019. I'm sure of it. Seriously, they seem to have a good bead on making long fibers, and since tension wires don't require nearly so capable of a matrix I say within the decade we might see the first test wires being produced for experiment. Their cost will prohibit their use for anything but the most esoteric programs (space programs, and perhaps uber-expensive and uber-long "iconic" bridges).
 
radeonic2 said:
You didn't need all that math to figure that out, did you?
Well there is something to be said for backing up an opinion with facts at some point instead of just rambling on...

Bigus carbon fiber is strong in compression as well, I am not sure where you get your info that it is not. Though it is true that the way it was woven in the past was often very detrimental to compressive strength, that is no longer the case.

Carbon fiber would be economically competitive if it was used on the right scale, but there are serious problems in the failure modes of carbon fiber and that in an accident you would end up with very sharp pieces of material skewering and killing people unless you did all kinds of stuff which would defeat the entire purpose of being light and strong. Also there would be no frame straightening on a vehicle after an accident, and I don't think recycling would work well. Buying used cars would become incredibly risky since it is hard to detect defects in composites as shown by the tail of that airplane falling off.
 
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I'm currently working at a company with multiple factories where they make the dashboards for the European models of Ford. And I can say, that in the last three evolutions of those, the parts have gone from being build from many metal plates, screwed together, with a plastic covering, to composites consisting of only two separate parts, foamed together.
 
Bigus Dickus said:
1. And yours doesn't?
2. You want me to guess on when cutting edge materials research on something that has no guarantee of success at all will yield results? Erm, August 17 2019. I'm sure of it. Seriously, they seem to have a good bead on making long fibers, and since tension wires don't require nearly so capable of a matrix I say within the decade we might see the first test wires being produced for experiment. Their cost will prohibit their use for anything but the most esoteric programs (space programs, and perhaps uber-expensive and uber-long "iconic" bridges).
1. Yeah, but at least it's a more enlightened level of compensation.
2. I was wondering if you maybe knew more about how economically feasible it was. Is that really so naive?:rolleyes:
 
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