How is it relevant to Nintendo providing overlapping mobile experiences?
What was your point in bringing up differences in mobile/consoles?
Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech
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How is it relevant to Nintendo providing overlapping mobile experiences?
What was your point in bringing up differences in mobile/consoles?
No, actually it was the DS.
How is mobile relevant to home consoles? Why do you keep posting off-topic arguments?
It was an example of a games machine which had great success and the following year, introduced the next generation.
It isn't unheard of and wouldn't be the first time.
In fact, since Nintendo shifted to optical media, they have adopted backwards compatibility in the console space as well.
Sony did much the same with ps2/ps3.
anexanhume
Veteran
I know. I was playing you. The Atari Flashback also launched in November of that year.
As was already pointed out, you can't compare the mobile and console space directly.
Nintendo has largely went unchallenged in that space so their market dynamic was different. The PSP did well, but I don't think anyone will argue it all affected DS sales.
Sure, for mobile space. What does this have to do with the home console space? Quit going off-topic with these tangential examples to support your agenda. It's not going anywhere with your one liner question-arguments.
1998 greatest sales year ever for ps1
1999 ps2 launch
Another example that great existing sales does not preclude a HW producer from launching a nextgen machine.
What does any of this have to do with next gen tech?
Sounds like this tired, and flawed, argument should be in the other thread, not here.
Predicting nextgen tech is based on timeframe.
When nextgen is expected will dictate what can be fit under the hood in that timeframe.
I don't disagree with TheChefO's idea that launching while your current box is strong isn't inherently a bad idea. I do object strongly to the fact that every damn thread he post in turns into "launch in 2012".
Can we please get back to the thread's purpose of exploring the range of hardware options for next-gen? Present suggestions for a 2012 box and a 2013 box and a cheap box and an expensive box and whatever you think will happen, but otherwise everyone stop with the tiresome attempts to predict the business machinations in a hardware tech thread. The in-depth business choices aren't needed to discuss tech options short of picking for a particular design option, and those business topics can be discussed in the general console forum.
Can we please get back to the thread's purpose of exploring the range of hardware options for next-gen? Present suggestions for a 2012 box and a 2013 box and a cheap box and an expensive box and whatever you think will happen, but otherwise everyone stop with the tiresome attempts to predict the business machinations in a hardware tech thread. The in-depth business choices aren't needed to discuss tech options short of picking for a particular design option, and those business topics can be discussed in the general console forum.
anexanhume
Veteran
Don't those business/marketing processes directly influence what type of hardware we'll see? Would you expect a thread on next gen console logistics/marketing to not delve into hardware?
Yes, but only which choice is made out of the available options. We don't need to know when MS or Sony is launching to speculate on hardware choices - if we did, this thread wouldn't have started until maybe this year. Instead we can look out what architectures will be out in what timeframes and speculate a 2012 console, or a 2013 console, etc. And most people have been happy talking hardware until recently when the thread was hijacked to talk about the business. A mention of one's theory as to when a box will launch and so one's expectations of hardware is fine, but the hardcore debate of such business options doesn't belong here. Anyone wanting to prove that a console will release in 2012 and so such-and-such hardware will be used needs to take that to another thread.
) turn out to be right. He will be literally fisting humble pie down your throats!I think the above is a reasonable approximation for nextgen 28nm GPU.
Agreed on comments of gpu budget taking some away from cpu budget along with workload.
However, I disagree on the notion that such a GPU would be "weak".
I suppose much of that is due to the intended use by developers. Such a GPU when targeted at 720p and 30fps will provide a sizable bump in visuals. When seeing COD using sub 720p and not suffering in sales, I'm not seeing the devs being convinced to target 1080p 60fps.
It is a safe assumption that we will see plenty of 30Hz 720p games next gen. And at that res/framerate even a Barts should produce stunning visuals.
I'm more worried about the amount of RAM. Al seems to think 2GB is likely if I read his posts correctly, and in 2015 this will seem really, really, really low. Like, your cellphone will have way more than that.
I'm more worried about the amount of RAM. Al seems to think 2GB is likely if I read his posts correctly, and in 2015 this will seem really, really, really low. Like, your cellphone will have way more than that.
Well, that was assuming GDDR5... Feel free to use 16GB of cellphone memory though. ಠ_ಠ
2GB if fast and used efficiently could be plenty.
Personally though, I'd rather they used a larger pool of slower RAM (8gb) and a good chunk (64mb) of EDRAM for a scratch pad for CPU and GPU use to offset the slower lower bandwidth ram.
A larger pool would enable larger persistent worlds, synthesized models/textures/characters/behaviors, and streaming textures could be done more aggressively with such a large pool so there would be less pop-in and preloading areas/levels to counter the relatively slow optical drive.
Personally though, I'd rather they used a larger pool of slower RAM (8gb) and a good chunk (64mb) of EDRAM for a scratch pad for CPU and GPU use to offset the slower lower bandwidth ram.
A larger pool would enable larger persistent worlds, synthesized models/textures/characters/behaviors, and streaming textures could be done more aggressively with such a large pool so there would be less pop-in and preloading areas/levels to counter the relatively slow optical drive.
Fine! Can I stack it?
Ok, I want to start a serious line of discussion. Based on the AMD "future GPU" hints let's discuss:
(1) Stacked Memory. When will it be available in volume? What are the specs in regards to Bandwidth, Power, and Cost. What constraints are we looking at in terms of # of modules and bus? What are the providers? What are the pro/con and what are the competing options worth considering?
(2) Silicon Interposer. When will these be available on a mass production scale? What kind of advantages are we going to see from this (wide, low powered busses?) What is the cost of a 500mm^2 "chip" on 90nm and 65nm these days? How much room would one need for a 230mm^2 GPU and 2 dense (stacked?) memory modules? What yield and production issues would AMD be facing? What kind of interconnect would be used to a CPU in such a fabled setup?
And SI addresses a number of bandwidth and PCB trace issues, but are there better options in regards to cost? eDRAM, going stacked memory alone, XDR2 (...), etc.
(1) Stacked Memory. When will it be available in volume? What are the specs in regards to Bandwidth, Power, and Cost. What constraints are we looking at in terms of # of modules and bus? What are the providers? What are the pro/con and what are the competing options worth considering?
(2) Silicon Interposer. When will these be available on a mass production scale? What kind of advantages are we going to see from this (wide, low powered busses?) What is the cost of a 500mm^2 "chip" on 90nm and 65nm these days? How much room would one need for a 230mm^2 GPU and 2 dense (stacked?) memory modules? What yield and production issues would AMD be facing? What kind of interconnect would be used to a CPU in such a fabled setup?
And SI addresses a number of bandwidth and PCB trace issues, but are there better options in regards to cost? eDRAM, going stacked memory alone, XDR2 (...), etc.
bgassassin
Regular
Same here unless there's some density change coming up I haven't seen.
Also I liked Acert's post, but I'm expecting Cell to be dead and non-existent next gen.
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