RIP Kinect

[BRiT]

@zed If you restate your claim to be "failure as a product" then less would dispute your statement. As it is, you are confusing "product failure" with "tech failure". The technology used in Kinect is not a failure and is used in plenty of the Augmented / Virtual Reality.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Kinect for 360 wasn't even a failure as a product. It shipped something like 25 million units at $150.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The reason its a bigger flop than Kin, is cause MS tried Kin it didnt work out and then abandoned it, they did not repeat the same mistakes and bring out a Kin 2, they actually learnt their lesson.
This is exactly what MS done with Kinect 2 with the Xbox One

The logic here is hard to follow. MS released Kinect 1, which was the world-record selling electronic device and grossed them loads of money. To abandon that financial success would be the sensible thing to do?? That a sequel to that best-selling device would be an obvious bad idea? In the boardroom, going over the numbers the executives should have said, "okay, Kinect 1 had massive demand and sold crazy units and made loads of money, so we'd better not do a Kinect 2 that's even better tech and solves Kinect 1's problems"?

Kinect1 == Win     =>     Kinect2 == Fail

Does not compute.

 

[zed]

The logic here is hard to follow. MS released Kinect 1, which was the world-record selling electronic device and grossed them loads of money. To abandon that financial success would be the sensible thing to do?? That a sequel to that best-selling device would be an obvious bad idea? In the boardroom, going over the numbers the executives should have said, "okay, Kinect 1 had massive demand and sold crazy units and made loads of money, so we'd better not do a Kinect 2 that's even better tech and solves Kinect 1's problems"

you do realize that more than half of kinect sales were actually included with a xbox 360? i.e. bundled, yes it perhaps overall made them some money (hard to say how much when one factors in the half billion dollar marketing on kinect) https://www.gamespot.com/articles/microsoft-to-spend-500m-on-kinect-marketing-report/1100-6282208/
also WRT best selling device/accessory are you sure? Check amazon or anywhere else and look at where kinect is listed, under accessories, where you will also see controllers, are you telling me that kinect sold better than those? surely each console comes bundled with a controller for example (though of course one should discount bundles)
"solves Kinect 1's problems" , since when did kinect 2 solve the latency issues, please supply facts that support this

OT but may be of interest to some here, google how something actually becomes a guinness world record and see its now mostly a money making (prostitution) scam on guiness part, IIRC others have started up a transparent world record organization to compete against guinness

 

[BRiT]

"solves Kinect 1's problems" , since when did kinect 2 solve the latency issues,

If you read any article about Kinect Xbox One you would have known how the latency was greatly reduced and about the overall improvements.

Zed, please educate yourself before making such wild unsupported statements. As it is, your arguments hold no water because they are baseless.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

WRT best selling device/accessory are you sure?

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/fastest-selling-gaming-peripheral/

 

[Tkumpathenurple]

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Strange timing though. It was always a solution in search of a problem, but it seems like full body tracking would actually be quite useful combined with VR.

So, now that they have a console powerful enough to facilitate a VR headset, they're going to kill off the product that would accompany it well.

Timing!

 

[bunge]

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Strange timing though. It was always a solution in search of a problem, but it seems like full body tracking would actually be quite useful combined with VR.

So, now that they have a console powerful enough to facilitate a VR headset, they're going to kill off the product that would accompany it well.

Timing!

This reminds me of how PS Home should have remained alive for PSVR. Odd timing.

 

[zed]

If you read any article about Kinect Xbox One you would have known how the latency was greatly reduced and about the overall improvements.

Zed, please educate yourself before making such wild unsupported statements. As it is, your arguments hold no water because they are baseless.

baseless, yep seen the data, and like I said ( do i really need to link to my posts back in 2013/14 in the beyond3d.net forums why kinect for the xbox 1 is not good enuf WRT latency) perhaps I should link to those? would that convince you?

http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/fastest-selling-gaming-peripheral/

well done, now read my last post,
A/ guiness is basically a whore, I think you're in the UK its like if I link to an news article from the sun or the mirror, stating it as a fact. whould you believe it? I dont think so, so why quote guiness/the sun/fox news
B/ its not even the best/fastest selling gaming peripheral

Now I know its shocking forShifty Geezer and others why kinect 2 in the xbox one failed (did it fail? I suppose perhaps they will argue it didnt, in that case all I say is pointless)
but anyways shall we participate in an experiment?
now lets go back to 2012/ early 2013 and we're in the xbox division boardroom.
I say kinect 2 will fail for reasons I gave back in 2012/13 now back then you thought kinect will succeed for your own reasons.
OK history has to run this experiment, the experiments result = failure for kinect 2
of course looking at that we know how the I'ld be fired for being correct and the kinect 'trust us it wont fail' guys would get bonuses cause they fucked it up completely

Now shifty et al, how did you misread this so wrong? Im not sure exactly what kinect was selling in 2012 (only datapoint we can easily look up now), PS move outsold it on amazon , now based on that you think its a good idea to go with kinect for the new console in 2013
should sony should have put 'move' with every ps4 in 2013? after all it was performing better than kinect was? no ... why not

Im not always correct (have been wrong about 20% of the time) though do have a history of correctly picking the future on this forum

 

[orangpelupa]

This reminds me of how PS Home should have remained alive for PSVR. Odd timing.

Yappari TIMING da to omou kedo

except with Nintendo. Their timing can be out of whack and still reign supreme. Heck, i think their timing is always an anomaly compared to others. They even have introduced mid-gen console upgrade since eons ago before MS and Sony.

Anyway, Rec Room is coming for free for PS4 right? should be fun in VR

as for kinect's death... does this also means the death of the awesome convinient xbox voice command, so it will be replaced with cortana?

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Strange timing though. It was always a solution in search of a problem, but it seems like full body tracking would actually be quite useful combined with VR.

This. Our ET lab spent a lot time trying to find applications for Kinect and their are some but they are niche. Our operation solves large data problems and that often means creating a lot of data ourselves. Multiple Kinect sensors working in parallel was a really efficient way to do low-accuracy body capture (just to generate skeletal motions for crowd visualisations to look more natural) and we also explored using it behind reception/security desks to aid with automatic identification and it worked quite well in that capacity. Some medical research team were looking to use it as a cheap means to detect unnatural body movements automatically but I stopped following that.

The technology won't go away, it'll get better and pop up it non-gaming applications.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

well done, now read my last post

You're one of those impossible-to-argue with people.

"Where's your evidence?"
"Here"
"Well I discredit that so it doesn't count. Therefore I'm right."

Obviously they aren't including controllers or memory cards that are part of the core device. And whether Kinect was or wasn't a world record breaker, doesn't dretract from the fact it sold 133,000 units a unit for 60 days to shift 8 million units in two months. What other additional peripheral did that? EyeToy? PlayStation 7.1 Headset? N64 Rumble Pack? Sega MegaCD?

Now I know its shocking forShifty Geezer and others why kinect 2 in the xbox one failed (did it fail? I suppose perhaps they will argue it didnt, in that case all I say is pointless)
but anyways shall we participate in an experiment?
now lets go back to 2012/ early 2013 and we're in the xbox division boardroom.
I say kinect 2 will fail for reasons I gave back in 2012/13 now back then you thought kinect will succeed for your own reasons.
OK history has to run this experiment, the experiments result = failure for kinect 2

If we were in the boardroom, we'd run Kinect differently and continue its former success by actually providing software for it.

Now shifty et al, how did you misread this so wrong?

If everybody misreads something, is it not more likely that the source was mis-written? You're still talking about a product failure, not a tech failure.

Im not sure exactly what kinect was selling in 2012 (only datapoint we can easily look up now), PS move outsold it on amazon , now based on that you think its a good idea to go with kinect for the new console in 2013
should sony should have put 'move' with every ps4 in 2013? after all it was performing better than kinect was? no ... why not

If Sony had supported Move and made it part of the package, it may not have been dead come PS4. Neither of these companies supported their babies, which is why they failed as products, which doesn't necessarily speak to their success as tech - Kinect 1 was fairly flawed tech but Kinect 2 was amazing, and if the world's first experience of Kinect was Kinect 2, we may have a totally different story on our hands. Bit like if the first waggle-control experience wasn't the utterly lame Wiimote, we might have real motion control games.

 

[Arwin]

In some respects sony did just that - move was for a large part integrated into the DS4, and the Move controllers were supported early on as well, and then they became quite important in VR.

I am more surprised that Kinect 2 didn’t find a place in VR, but one of the biggest problems with Kinect, even 2, was that it still required a lot of space to setup. That, and early adopters willing to spend a lot of cash on new systems are so called hardcore gamers, aka conservative graphics whores with specially evolved thumbs only suitable to analog sticks. [emoji6]

I mean seriously, give someone who hasn’t played a racing game before GT Sport or DriveClub and let them play with analog sticks. Then let them play with motion steering .... I rest my case.

 

[function]

Bit like if the first waggle-control experience wasn't the utterly lame Wiimote, we might have real motion control games.

I still maintain that Wii-Sports was the most fun I had with shared-telly gaming that gen! And since, come to think of it ....

I had Kinect for 360. It was fun too, but space constraints meant I had to rearrange the room every time it was used. Immature voice interface and the pointlessness of gesture control meant it was only used occasionally though, and when those occasions cease ...

I hope it'll come back one day in an even further enhanced, cost reduced form that can be bundled with games. Like light guns, fighting controllers, fishing rods used to be. Peripherals live or die often due to the presence or absence of a handful of killer apps. Unfortunately, I can't see MS touching it again - they'll blame the tech and not their own market vision.

 

[zed]

"Where's your evidence?"
"Here"
"Well I discredit that so it doesn't count. Therefore I'm right."

Obviously they aren't including controllers or memory cards that are part of the core device

mate it seems like its you thats discrediting the evidence, by ignoring controllers etc why don't you count them as accessories, as everyone else does. check amazon,best buy whereever, when you look at a list of console accessories, you will see controllers are most definitely counted as an accessory, also you have given further evidence that demand for kinect had greatly slowed, shipped 8million in 2 months, yet only shipped 16 million over the next ~2years (thats including it being heavily bundled)

You're one of those impossible-to-argue with people.

perhaps mate, though I can see the facts do give a strong case to my assertion that kinect 2 is MS's greatest tech failure,
after all as you say after full well knowing what kinect 2 was (having ample time with kinect1 on the xbox360) they release it without any support at all, not only do they not support it, but it actually cripples the xbox one in 3 ways, cost,availability,power.
What rating do you give kinect 2 for the xbox one? 10/10

I do stand by my point that kinect 2 was a disaster, sure mate you can believe what you want to believe but unless you come up with some stronger arguments based on facts you won't change my opinion

 

[BRiT]

tech failure

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

mate it seems like its you thats discrediting the evidence, by ignoring controllers etc why don't you count them as accessories

Because Guinness didn't. Or I assume they didn't. Maybe they did and no peripheral, not even controllers or memory cards, sold as much as 133,333 a day. But assuming these extras have sold more (as I'd expect), then it's obvious Guinness are being particular about their choice of what peripherals to include in their record.

perhaps mate, though I can see the facts do give a strong case to my assertion that kinect 2 is MS's greatest tech failure...What rating do you give kinect 2 for the xbox one? 10/10

Do you not make any distinction between 'tech failure' and 'product failure'? If so, what are your definitions such that you persist in calling Kinect 2's TOF camera implementation a technology failure?

Kinect 2 in XBOne was a bad move as you say, for the reasons you give. Kinect 2 as a technology was awesome and its potential was awesome. It was great tech let down by poor execution from a company in two minds about their direction with it. If XBOne had been conceived by Nintendo and they had access to the tech of Kinect 2, we'd be having a very different discussion here because they'd have actually committed themselves to the idea and produced games for it.

 

[function]

To be fair to zed, he's not a game designer and he's not strong on tech [edit: that's probably unfair - this discussion is focused on the tech in Kinect and Kinect 2]. He can't differentiate between the abilities of [this] piece tech and the possibilities it offered, and its success in the marketplace.

But you know what? Neither could MS. Or many games developers. I don't think we should be so hard on him. zed is basically MS right now.

 

[BRiT]

To be fair to zed, he's not a game designer and he's not strong on tech. He can't differentiate between the abilities of a piece of tech and the possibilities it offered, and its success in the marketplace.

But you know what? Neither could MS. Or many games developers. I don't think we should be so hard on him. zed is basically MS right now.

So this is all zed's confession of product failure?

 

[orangpelupa]

Anyway, I just watched the verge review of iPhone X...

So the front camera is basically a super mini kinect? The wait it work also the same, I think.

It blast your face with lots of tiny IR dots.

Hopefully Apple will publish an app to use it as 3D scanner just like kinect.