2024 may not be kind for game developers.

Make them smaller with scope to expand. Or, you know, "Game 2", a sequel, that reuses the engine but increases scope now you know there's an audience.

The kind of sane business the industry used to do. What caused all the dumb?
Like doing Resogun 2, Jak & Daxter Precursor Legacy 2 or Days Gone 2. All first games were highly successful and never got another sequel. This is what Nintendo has been doing for decades. The formula works? Well, improve it, not too much, keep the name and what works and milk it.
 
Nintendo's very interesting because they make crazy money off software. What they really nailed, which will come as a shock to many game developers, is making good games. Refining the gameplay, passing on the knowledge to future games, and just generally being f****** good at their art. But it's taken them 40+ years to get here.

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They are capitalising on decades of the Art, for real. Not just a business of making games, but an art, driven by talent and not metrics and business plans.

The industry always consisted of a wide range of titles, some flops, some runaway successes, but always little predictability and the publishers operated around those intrinsic parameters. Try stuff, see what takes, make a sequel or three.

I wonder the choice of executives has changed and so changed the business mindsets? Publishers in the earliest days were gamers or otherwise often interested. At some point they became Harvard Suits just pushing economics. Is that true? Maybe also some decent gamer types felt pressured into becoming Suits by investor economics?
 
Nintendo's very interesting because they make crazy money off software. What they really nailed, which will come as a shock to many game developers, is making good games. Refining the gameplay, passing on the knowledge to future games, and just generally being f****** good at their art. But it's taken them 40+ years to get here.

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They are capitalising on decades of the Art, for real. Not just a business of making games, but an art, driven by talent and not metrics and business plans.

The industry always consisted of a wide range of titles, some flops, some runaway successes, but always little predictability and the publishers operated around those intrinsic parameters. Try stuff, see what takes, make a sequel or three.

I wonder the choice of executives has changed and so changed the business mindsets? Publishers in the earliest days were gamers or otherwise often interested. At some point they became Harvard Suits just pushing economics. Is that true? Maybe also some decent gamer types felt pressured into becoming Suits by investor economics?
Not a AAA company but the one I was working at was occupied on mobile games, gambling on Candy Crash's and Gardenscape's success. Many of the employees were gamers and passionate artists. All of our games were adjusted to mimic those two. The CEO was meddling with the game design, never investing in art. These had negative consequences on our ganes. He wanted to magically land the next successful Candy Crash or Gardenscapes clone. He sucked our motivation and soul out of us. COVID gave him some good bonus and some company profits which he invested on a partner that appeared to be a mock company more than anything else. Likely with under the table money and tax evasion tactics. He destroyed the company and trickled down all the costs on us.
 
But one game that can do that is an outlier, not a model for the entire industry. And how much has been wasted chasing those kinds of numbers? It's fundamentally stupid, like gambling. "This guy won €100 million in the Euromillions lottery. Let's buy €25 million in tickets and we can win it too."

Business used to be about robust, reliable strategies for sustainability and growth. Start you local store. Make a profit. Invest that in an expansion. Doing well? Open another branch.

Make a game. Keep it small and affordable. Did it do well? Okay, aim a bit higher. Getting a fanbase now. Want to make a big game? Okay, plan a couple of iterations. Start with something contained, get it out there and make some money, plus learn from it. Make a couple of DLCs for minimal cost to earn more from each player. Apply your learning to the engine update and roll out Version 2.

Heck, that's even exactly what GTA did! It didn't launch at version V and $billions. The game iterated, growing over time, making money from the earlier versions to fund development of the later versions. It seems business these days is wanting to cheat and take shortcuts, ploughing in investor money with the hopes of a huge payout.

And even more ironically, when they do get a hit, often they screw it up and offend their playerbase with changes and end up killing their business.
GTA is obviously at the top of the pile, but the games that have generated the most dollars have been live service games. The reason why all of the AAA companies were shifting towards live service was because the metrics were showing that's where growth was. The problem is that by the time the larger studios were on the live service train, that genre was essentially saturated, the players have either found the live service games they like, or have found that they don't like live service games. It might be true that a lot of publishers thought they could easily have a successful live service game, but chasing trends has been a consistent part of the history of video games. Find a successful game from history. Space Invaders, Pac-Man, Super Mario Bros., DooM... There have been games that have tried to clone their gameplay and their success. Even after Mario's success, when Sega figured out they needed a mascot and a platformer and came up with Sonic, there were a bunch of platformers with attitude trying to clone the success of Sonic.

Chasing trends has always been a model for the industry.
 
The reality is neither gamers nor executives nor developers really know the science of what makes a good game or a successful game much less both.

Also is maybe bias here? It's not like smaller scope projects don't end up in business failures as well. But because they're smaller scope and less notworthy it just seems like they never happen.

Nintendo's very interesting because they make crazy money off software. What they really nailed, which will come as a shock to many game developers, is making good games. Refining the gameplay, passing on the knowledge to future games, and just generally being f****** good at their art. But it's taken them 40+ years to get here.

Didn't Nintendo also learn not to discount their software? And I guess capitalize on decades of not normalizing their software being discounted? That might not be the popular thing to hear about for consumer/gamers though.

Make them smaller with scope to expand. Or, you know, "Game 2", a sequel, that reuses the engine but increases scope now you know there's an audience.

The kind of sane business the industry used to do. What caused all the dumb?

The industry goes through cycles just like I guess how consumers go through cycles. I bring the latter because it's interesting that you've also had cycles in which the vocal complaint was that companies were relying too much on sequels and later I guess remasters/remakes. You asked what "gamers" want and they would've said new IP.

If anything the business side seems like it would prefer to keep costs under control. I'm not sure if you remember there was a time in which they wanted to maximize that paradigm in which it seemed like the push, trend, and new norm would be episodic gaming. But that ended up not working for gamers or developers or publishers, at least not to what they thought.
 
Also is maybe bias here? It's not like smaller scope projects don't end up in business failures as well. But because they're smaller scope and less notworthy it just seems like they never happen.
Cost is, in many ways, risk. You risk less with a project that costs less. Take a look at the late Rodger Corman's New World Pictures, a movie studio famous for low budgets. Corman made a string of hits and misses, but the misses weren't going to bankrupt the studio, because the budgets were so low that any of his hits could sustain the studios and the misses. One of the last movies New World made was the 1989 Punisher film starring Dolph Lundgren. It cost $9 million and earned $30M at the box office. It's probably one of the most expensive New World movies. 1989 also saw the release of the Tim Burton Batman film, with it's $48M budget. Based on this example, Corman could have made 5 super hero movies with Batman's budget, and would probably have enough left over to make a 6th movie out of the leftover millions and reusing footage from the aforementioned superhero movies. Only 2 of these movies would have to be as successful as The Punisher to have made money on all 6.

We need a Rodger Corman of video games.
 
Cost is, in many ways, risk. You risk less with a project that costs less. Take a look at the late Rodger Corman's New World Pictures, a movie studio famous for low budgets. Corman made a string of hits and misses, but the misses weren't going to bankrupt the studio, because the budgets were so low that any of his hits could sustain the studios and the misses. One of the last movies New World made was the 1989 Punisher film starring Dolph Lundgren. It cost $9 million and earned $30M at the box office. It's probably one of the most expensive New World movies. 1989 also saw the release of the Tim Burton Batman film, with it's $48M budget. Based on this example, Corman could have made 5 super hero movies with Batman's budget, and would probably have enough left over to make a 6th movie out of the leftover millions and reusing footage from the aforementioned superhero movies. Only 2 of these movies would have to be as successful as The Punisher to have made money on all 6.

We need a Rodger Corman of video games.

This still seems kind of a like a bias in terms of perception here. Just going to throw out these thoughts here without organizing them -

Mid budget and low budget films still flop, just like mid budget and low budget games.

Most games (the vast majority) being released aren't high budget. This is an example of how coverage might be skewing perception. The companies doing these huge projects one after another are in the minority.

The higher budget AAA games that do flop tend to be from publishers that able to absorb those flops. Sony Interactive Entertaiment isn't at risk of going bankrupt from Concord. I think we need to keep in mind cost is relative here. Small companies doing smaller budgets also go bankrupt from their flops as that small budget is higher relative to their overall finances.

I guess the game studio itself gets folded but the comparison with the film industry isn't really analogus in terms of the terminology. The film studios in Hollywood typically create various production companies when making films and often just fold those, even if the film is succesful.

For Sony (and some others) those titles are also "prestige" titles. Sony can rely on their platform cut for just the direct business angle. Those prestige titles draw towards their platform and have indirect benefits.

But if you look at say other large publishers their scope of title allotment might not be what you think it is.

Larian I guess might be an example of a company that kind of fit your example for putting out lower budgets? But taking that high budget risk with Baldur Gate 3 gave them more exposure than all their previous games combined.
 
Larian I guess might be an example of a company that kind of fit your example for putting out lower budgets? But taking that high budget risk with Baldur Gate 3 gave them more exposure than all their previous games combined.
Maybe. But BG3 was in early access for nearly 3 years, so it was being sold and thus funded for that time. And since Larian's previous game was released about 3 years before BG3's early access, it was in early access (and thus accumulating sales) for half of it's development. Funding your game during development this way mitigates risk.
 
Also is maybe bias here? It's not like smaller scope projects don't end up in business failures as well. But because they're smaller scope and less notworthy it just seems like they never happen.
70% of games used to fail to make their money back. The successes paid for them. However, those failures didn't sink the companies because the losses were managable. If every game costs $2-5 million, you can cope with the failures with your rare $billion generators. If they all cost $100 million because they are all wanting to be megagenerators, you'll sink.

As you say, no-one knows the formula. Therefore you have to be smart and cautious with your money. We know copying a trend does not mean copying the success of the trend-setter. We know you can't predict success. So the only logical course of investment is distribute across a range of titles and hedge your bets, which means each title has to be manageable if it fails. Concord wouldn't be a problem if it was the work for 40 people over two years.

The industry goes through cycles just like I guess how consumers go through cycles. I bring the latter because it's interesting that you've also had cycles in which the vocal complaint was that companies were relying too much on sequels and later I guess remasters/remakes. You asked what "gamers" want and they would've said new IP.
Yep. And they want new IP now too. What people want is good games! Badly executed new IP is no better than well executed samey sequels.
If anything the business side seems like it would prefer to keep costs under control. I'm not sure if you remember there was a time in which they wanted to maximize that paradigm in which it seemed like the push, trend, and new norm would be episodic gaming. But that ended up not working for gamers or developers or publishers, at least not to what they thought.
That was an interesting one. It looked set to defer cost over iterations, but it turns out people didn't care to finish the game. Which then leads on to the reality that most games go unfinished. Massively so. Players play a part of the game and then stop. At least 50%of the invest is a waste of time! :runaway:

Not sure what to do about that one. You have to craft the whole game even though people won't play it.

I think my take-home at the moment is people talk about gaming, like all businesses, 'growing', but ultimately I think it needs less. Fewer studios creating better content. We know the old model was sustainable because it not only survived but grew. More games means more distributed spending. You also have the new GaaS taking large amounts of money but being ultimately unpredictable such that you can't set about to make a cash cow and know you'll succeed. I think you just need to try stuff, see what happens, and get lucky once in a while. Which probably isn't a strategy you can sell to investors...
 
UBI sabotaged themselves with DEI AC nonsense instead of actually focusing on its quality franchise.

The changes in AC Valhalla already felt like a downgrade to me in gameplay. To me Origin+Odyssey were pinnacle AC game designs. Even if people have some legit cookie cutter quality concerns about UBI's approach a lot of their successful titles delivered quantity which was always worth the price.

Division2+DLC is 4+ years old now. One of the most immersive games I've ever played and is still going on relatively strong. Games with such staying power should tell a studio what works.

Then all the stupid fire sales surely didn't help to keep prices stable. I'm sure there are other ways to increase the reach like free weekends+Gamepass older games.
 
UBI sabotaged themselves with DEI AC nonsense instead of actually focusing on its quality franchise.

The changes in AC Valhalla already felt like a downgrade to me in gameplay. To me Origin+Odyssey were pinnacle AC game designs. Even if people have some legit cookie cutter quality concerns about UBI's approach a lot of their successful titles delivered quantity which was always worth the price.

Division2+DLC is 4+ years old now. One of the most immersive games I've ever played and is still going on relatively strong. Games with such staying power should tell a studio what works.

Then all the stupid fire sales surely didn't help to keep prices stable. I'm sure there are other ways to increase the reach like free weekends+Gamepass older games.

I hated Origin and Odyssey (I literally got a legal copy of Odyssey for free and still didn't play it) while I actually played Valhalla at all lol. So there's always disagreements. That being said Valhalla got boring after about 15 hours, being 60+ hours was kinda weird.

Holy fuck! What happened?

SW Outlaws hasn't sold super well while costing a ton of $$$. Not to mention disasters like Skull and Bones. For Outlaws I blame both the marketing and game itself never really making clear "what" the game is. At times I find it a blast, and it looks great. But what exactly is the fantasy being sold to me here? It's not a Han Solo simulator, because at times I just gun gown waves of generic baddies (this is really boring btw) and Han Solo doesn't do that (cue yelling and running away). Han talks his way out of things, and I rarely ever do that in this game.

It's not Grand Theft Auto SW, there's an entire "wanted" and chase mechanic that's not in depth or fun at all because the game just doesn't seem to care about this mechanic even though it's there. Maybe at best it's an open world SW game where you just wander around a map finding treasures and doing side quests which can be surprisingly well written. The fun speederbike, decent stealth, great looks, and fun writing could've been a great game if the director had a clear vision for what the game was supposed to be and what was actually fun about it. Instead there's a lot of boring stuff and missed opportunities in between the fun, why on earth would I care about sneaking into this random baddie base when I can find equal amounts of loot wandering around the map?
 
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Division2+DLC is 4+ years old now. One of the most immersive games I've ever played and is still going on relatively strong. Games with such staying power should tell a studio what works.
Yeah, it's a GAAS title. That's why everyone was focusing on that model so much.
Poor sales in general. Their F2P shooter no one heard of bombed.
Ubisoft just really needs a hit. It isn't just Xdefiant, but Skull and Bones isn't expected to break even either. And with Star Wars Outlaws having a muted consumer response, things aren't looking good for them this year. I do wonder if they will get a bump because of revenue from COD streaming rights when it launches, but they are down almost 75% from 5 years ago. It's not a good trend.
 
Yeah, it's a GAAS title. That's why everyone was focusing on that model so much.
Does it count if it's not operated as such and is just a long lived online game? I don't know the model for the Division 2, but I think GaaS has to involve ongoing monetisation to count as that's where the big profits come from. I think it's more just an online shooter. Or can you spend silly money on cosmetics?
Ubisoft just really needs a hit. It isn't just Xdefiant, but Skull and Bones isn't expected to break even either.
They need to make them then! Skull and Bones is uber janky, but they presented it as the best thing ever. Quadruple A!!

their whole job is to find talent and support talent to make great products. They aren't doing that at the moment which means their failure is on them being rubbish at their job. If they were putting out gaming gold yet not making money, then there'd be a wider issue with the industry.
 
Does it count if it's not operated as such and is just a long lived online game? I don't know the model for the Division 2, but I think GaaS has to involve ongoing monetisation to count as that's where the big profits come from. I think it's more just an online shooter. Or can you spend silly money on cosmetics?
People can buy season passes and cosmetic stuff. But there has been no new real content for 4 years.
 
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