Nintendo announce: Nintendo NX

[Rikimaru]

In art style yes but in terms of graphical quality the new Ratchet looks pretty crap compared to the above video IMO.

I'd say it looks very ambitious for Nintendo.
http://gematsu.com/gallery/albums/ratchet-clank/june-10-2015/Ratchet-and-Clank_2015_06-10-15_003.jpg
http://gematsu.com/gallery/albums/ratchet-clank/june-10-2015/Ratchet-and-Clank_2015_06-10-15_004.jpg

Can they put more than 4 stacked chips around the GPU? And what about using all 4 sides and not only 2?

Cost and lower yield.

 

[function]

Can they put more than 4 stacked chips around the GPU? And what about using all 4 sides and not only 2?

The interposer is right up against the limit of how big it can be. There's no room to connect more memory chips at the top or bottom even if the IO wouldn't be too complex.

14nm should hit for GPUs next year along with HBM2, iirc. That would give you a maximum limit of something like 50% ~100% more power than Fury (depending on power and clocks etc) with twice the BW and four times the memory.

I agree that 2017 could be the year for Nintendo to get the drop on Sony/MS with 14 nm and HBM2. With 8GB of ram (2x4), and twice the performance of PS4 for fewer Watts, and fewer but faster Zen cores, Nintendo might find themselves able to be aggressively competitive in performance and also other ways.

If Nintendo can ditch optical and move to SSD (a stretch, but one can hope) they could keep costs down, performance across the board right up, and go for a low power and attractive form factor.

Or ... maybe NX will be a tablet.

 

[AlNom]

Or ... maybe NX will be a tablet.

This time it will have mimetic poly-alloy.

 

[Grall]

The interposer is right up against the limit of how big it can be.

The obvious solution to that would be to get rid of the interposer. It's apparantly already happening, as it's a big inconvenience overall. Intel for example uses a single 1k link between its recent CPUs and companion "crystalwell" L4 die, on what appears to be a traditional OLGA substrate. While it might not be dense enough for HBM stacks right now, I'm sure they're working on getting there if they're not there already in lab samples.

 

[AlNom]

If Intel's doing it, it won't be done in console for years. >.>

 

[function]

This time it will have mimetic poly-alloy.

The moment any user touches it, the hardware morphs into something they find slightly disappointing.

 

[Pixel]

Damn I would hate to be Nintendo right now. Disenfranchise your most loyal followers by bringing out another system that will most certainly have a shortened lifespan and a 3rd party dilemma because 3-4 years later PS5/Xbox4 will arrive and devs wont want to make a unique version for the powergap between NX and PS5/Xbox4.
Every year their franchise become less relevant.
Somehow have to entice developers to make games for the console that has to start with a fresh userbase.
Danger that fewer purchasers than even WiiU had as more people may be reluctant this time to pick up the NX given PS4/Xbox one will have a huge software library and many cheap games in discount bins.
Dealing with so many more rock/hard place dilemmas - eg inability to launch a more powerful system system at $399 (given by then ps4/xbox one will have undergone pricecuts) to bring out a somewhat powerful system, thus being forced to release a system on part with ps4/xbox1 or less. Inability to grab a larger market of core gamers. Casual gamers will be moving more and more to mobile.

I predict another Nintendo with very little 3rd party support.

 

[liolio]

Nintendo situation is indeed pretty rough, the high-end console experience is no longer accessible to them.
There is hardware but there is also the overall environment, network infrastructure which lags its competitors a lot. I mean all its competitors, Android and iOS included.
iOS powered devices, Android powered devices, and Windows power devices (including the XB1) to a lesser extend, they all are going to offer functionality an overall ecosystem that nobody will be able to compete with, not Sony even less Nintendo.
It is not easy for Nintendo indeed. MSFT situation is not easy either, I mean they are fighting hard, pump a lot of money in and the improvements on the mobile front are minimal. Windows 10 looks good but competition is not standing still, the worse part for me is that Windows 10 gives really few intensive for publishers to develop more apps.
Where I'm getting is that it is easy for nobody. MSFT is gigantic compared to NIntendo, they have their pro business and they have Windows, etc.
Nintendo still has strength, strong support from fans, retro gamers, kids, they own the handheld market, a well known brand.
Now what to do with it? So far what I see is that on every fronts Nintendo refuses to compete, it quit fighting with Sony and MSFT (not a bad thing), but it seems that they are also not really fighting back on the retro gaming, kids markets, the handheld. Why that market see no growth in that era of mobile product cheap hardware and screen? They are refusing to evolve (Sony failed to adapt too).
They are cornering themselves, when I hear that Nintendo excuse for not divulging any information wrt the NX is so "competitors does not steal the idea", it scares me, every body knows what a home console is: a computer plugged into TV, you play sitting with a pad in your hands watching the aforementioned TV. A six years old have a good understanding of what a console is. The same applies to handheld.
Sometime I feel like NIntendo is spending its R&D money on everything but creating the type of devices their brand is famous for and in many regards defined: home consoles and handheld consoles. Everybody knows what a home console or a handheld console is, everybody but Nintendo.

Bashing aside, the fact that Nintendo next system is a home console is a bad omen as clearly handheld is where the growth potential is, that is their strong market. It is critical to do better now. Yes they can fail but if they wait soon enough iOS and Android gaming will win.
I wish Nintendo would have release both a handheld and a home console at the same time. If there must be only one device then it is the handheld first.

The choice of AMD have me thinking that Nintendo as it refuses to do what it takes to step forward and up its game on many fronts (it is not only their hardware), is going to have a complicated, extremely inefficient system but backward compatible. BC (supposedly) being the system saving grace (if everything else fails / gimmick fails). Meanwhile the open source Dolphin emulator runs lots of Nintendo games at quality levels NIntendo does not deliver on its own platforms, not even close which is the really bothering part.

 

[jiaolu]

The choice of AMD have me thinking that Nintendo as it refuses to do what it takes to step forward and up its game on many fronts (it is not only their hardware), is going to have a complicated, extremely inefficient system but backward compatible. BC (supposedly) being the system saving grace (if everything else fails / gimmick fails). Meanwhile the open source Dolphin emulator runs lots of Nintendo games at quality levels NIntendo does not deliver on its own platforms, not even close which is the really bothering part.

How the choice of AMD leads to the thinking , ""refuse to do ... up its game on my fronts", and "complicated inefficient system"

 

[Entropy]

Casual gamers will be moving more and more to mobile..

Now what to do with it? So far what I see is that on every fronts Nintendo refuses to compete, it quit fighting with Sony and MSFT (not a bad thing), but it seems that they are also not really fighting back on the retro gaming, kids markets, the handheld. Why that market see no growth in that era of mobile product cheap hardware and screen? They are refusing to evolve (Sony failed to adapt too).

Both your posts feel both a bit too negative, but more importantly, seem to neglect the bigger picture.
Nintendo is moving towards being a software developer for mobile platforms.
The only reason the NX was mentioned at all at the DeNA press conference was to reassure their business partners all over the industry that they are not going to completely abandon their traditional markets. They are embracing the move to mobile platforms, rather than limiting themselves to fighting within a contracting console market.

Now, there is still money to be had in the traditional console business, Nintendos mobile game platform turn around roughly half of iOS gaming for instance, so it is a sizeable chunk of money there that they shouldn't leave on the table. But from now on, Nintendo plays both sides.

 

[liolio]

How the choice of AMD leads to the thinking , ""refuse to do ... up its game on my fronts", and "complicated inefficient system"

Partly because AMD is already in WiiU and previous Nintendo systems. Partly because of statements made a while ago wrt to WiiU place in their future plan. Partly because of guts feeling as I see nothing of significance going on at Nintendo right now.
The partnership with I don't remember which Japanese mobile company is oversold. Nintendo wants to milk (or try to) its IPs in the mobile realm, I would say that is about time kids are going to forget about Mario and Luigi and think of Angry birds and others mascots on the raise.

Entropy I absolutely agree wrt to NIntendo mobile business, it is still consistent and I actually I believe it has quite some growth potential. Nintendo manages to sell the same device (+/-) to the same users but I believe that their actual user base for 3DS is actually not that big, still it is a significant volume and they are back making profits. Both Sony and Nintendo have not been doing it right.

 

[Cyan]

Rumour: Apparently future Nintendo console NX is going to cost 149$ and is going to be bundled with Diddy Kong Racing 2.

"I have an update to share with all of you on the status of Diddy Kong Racing 2.

The Diddy Kong Racing 2 project was moved over to new hardware that will be launched in 2016. The new platform is aiming for a price of $149.99 to avoid competing directly (price wise) with PlayStation 4 and Xbox One. The company fears that it would be market suicide to release another overly expensive box in the middle of a console generation, when most consumers have already invested in a PlayStation 4 or Xbox One. Wii U development kits are being used to develop NX software; the NX hardware is technically a Wii U except with higher memory bandwidth and a more balanced CPU.

For the skeptics who still don’t believe that Diddy Kong Racing 2 is coming:

Two weeks ago, Nintendo confirmed that Retro Studios isn’t working on a Metroid Prime title.

Nintendo applied for a trademark for “Diddy Kong” in Europe a few weeks ago.

Satoru Iwata teased at Diddy Kong Racing 2 when he held up a bunch of bananas at the E3 Digital Event."

https://kevincallahangames.wordpress.com/2015/06/29/exciting-times-coming-next-year/

 

[Rangers]

Heh, that would be just like Nintendo to shock everybody with just how low tech they they can go.

Doesn't make a ton of sense though, NX would seem to be something all mobile-y.

Lets just pretend this is plausible whether it is or isn't, then it would basically be just be the Wii U without the controller.

 

[fehu]

 

[McHuj]

Doesn't make a ton of sense though, NX would seem to be something all mobile-y.
Lets just pretend this is plausible whether it is or isn't, then it would basically be just be the Wii U without the controller.

The 3DS is do for a replacement. Next year it will be 5 years old.

A WiiU-level GPU (maybe down clocked for a lower res screen (540p vs 720p) with an ARM CPU on a single SOC wouldn't be the so out of the ballpark for the next handheld. It should be fairly cheap as well.

 

[ArcticCircle]

the NX hardware is technically a Wii U except with higher memory bandwidth and a more balanced CPU.

Heh, would be really funny if they really choose to go with so low specs. At least I'd get my prediction somewhat right from "predict next gen console tech" thread.

I have a feeling that Nintendo will choose ultra low cost and power option but at the same time will find the way to sell two machines to hardcore fans. ARM console + portable (just to sell almost same thing twice). Find the way to port Wii U games to each and allow 2nd display play if customer choose to buy both systems. Powerwise it's close to what Wii U is now (or simimar jump from Gamecube to Wii).

Actually it wouldn't be funny if you're one of those players who like Nintendo games and powerful consoles, but I guess most have accepted the fact that they have to pay "Nintendo tax" and play their fav games on low power console.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

The Latte GPU (32MB EDRAM and all) combined with higher memory bandwidth and a fairly decent ARM CPU (4/8-core A53 @ 1.8GHz?) wouldn't actually be all that bad, if the NX turns out to be a handheld with a 720p screen.

 

[AlNom]

The Diddy Kong Racing 2 project was moved over to new hardware that will be launched in 2016. The new platform is aiming for a price of $149.99 to avoid competing directly (price wise) with PlayStation 4 and Xbox One. The company fears that it would be market suicide to release another overly expensive box in the middle of a console generation, when most consumers have already invested in a PlayStation 4 or Xbox One. Wii U development kits are being used to develop NX software; the NX hardware is technically a Wii U except with higher memory bandwidth and a more balanced CPU.

How did he get this information? Who is this?

It just seems thrown in there along with the DKR2 speculation.

e.g. <I can make up a ton of stuff about hardware>
<oh btw, here's some interesting stuff about a developer not doing something, and some trademark being applied for>

<it's all related, and the stuff about hardware is tots legit>
----

 

[Entropy]

Where does this come from?
Anyways, this would be either a really inexpensive tweaked stationary WiiU, or possibly a rather spiffy handheld. The pricepoint is almost believable - at that price and a lineup of software carried/ported over from the WiiU I can see quite a few impulse purchases, not to mention uptake in less affluent regions.

That said, revised CPU config and revised memory subsystem implies a whole new IC solution. Hard to imagine everything else would be left untouched if they are doing such a major overhaul.

Believability score 3/10

 

[AlNom]

That said, revised CPU config and revised memory subsystem implies a whole new IC solution. Hard to imagine everything else would be left untouched if they are doing such a major overhaul.

hm... hypothetically speaking, maybe Latte could be rejigged with DDR4 and they'd just hook up the new CPU (and whatever that 3rd die is on the substrate) to the same interfaces as before?


edit:

On the other hand, you'd think they'd move on to 20/28nm for 2016, but a die shrink of the current GPU ought to be pad limited -> APU solution?

They'd also probably want to think beyond the Renesas eDRAM fabbing as well, so maybe if they switched to SRAM it'd bloat the die area anyway.