For accurate 3d positioning with respect to camera.
Otherwise they can only detect tilt and acceleration.
Old Discussion Thread for all 3 motion controllers
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For accurate 3d positioning with respect to camera.
Otherwise they can only detect tilt and acceleration.
No it's not. Not at all.
You're still being "sold" a product through these "proof of concepts". The fact that the hyperbole was so grand (especially in reference to the ridiculous Milo BS) only further illustrates that it's the same thing.
Again, gamers are getting their hopes up, but in the end, Natal will be about menu navigation and waggle w/out a controller, the other BS will probably see such limited application this generation, you might as well temper your expectations.
Wii does it with the bar on the TV?
only wiimotes look at the sensor bars and the PSeye looks at the colored bars AND uses ultrasound to detect distance. Very clever and complete solution if you ask me.
This basically solves the biggest problems of motion sensing: Absolute positioning, and an absolute vector in regard to which direction you are pointing. (shown in the demo perfectly)
Combine that with precision, and you have something that can actually be playable not by detecting gestures but simply throwing vectors as an input into the game engine.
Another is that the wiimote does the calculating with the wii
The 360 needs a proprietory CPU to do the calculating
Whilst the PS3 has the SPU and this is percisely (routine calculations) one of the SPU's strengths.
This basically solves the biggest problems of motion sensing: Absolute positioning, and an absolute vector in regard to which direction you are pointing. (shown in the demo perfectly)
Combine that with precision, and you have something that can actually be playable not by detecting gestures but simply throwing vectors as an input into the game engine.
Another is that the wiimote does the calculating with the wii
The 360 needs a proprietory CPU to do the calculating
Whilst the PS3 has the SPU and this is percisely (routine calculations) one of the SPU's strengths.
Exactly. At the Ubisoft presser the Red Steel 2 guys made a big deal about their 1:1 mapping of the katana, but it was pretty obvious that wne away as soon as your swiping motion triggered an attack animation. I think at least part of that is an issue of limited processing power on the Wii.
Absolutely. However, for the MS solution to incorporate a controller is simple. In fact, grab a "Big Button Controller" and you're done. You can also use any simple object as a controller. Want a sword? Use a sword. Want a gun? Use a gun. Put an infrared LED on the front of the gun that turns on when you pull the trigger, and you have a fully functional controller.
For Sony to do the opposite, to track full body movements in 3D is essentially impossible with their current design.
Sources for this? No release date was mentioned by MS as far as I know, no price was mentioned, and developers were receiving their motion control Dev kits starting yesterday.
I have not seen this "severe lag" you're talking about. Sources?
Yes, but as Strange said it's Wii remote doing the reading there hence it needs to be pointed. On the plus side you can probably use another infrared source pair instead of the official bar.
edit:
In case of Sony tech, they may be using the size of the circle to calculate the distance instead of any sonic approach, which can help them to build the "controller" extremely cheap.
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Can somebody point me a vid of sony motion sensing video?
Still waiting for proper feeds of the game demonstrated, gametrailer vids are really terrible imo.
Gamersyde has a better vid of uncharted which looks like the game of the show, waiting for even better footage.
GoW3 footage has seen this far are awful (gametrailer).
Pretty good show too but I'm clearly lacking more vids for now
Still waiting for proper feeds of the game demonstrated, gametrailer vids are really terrible imo.
Gamersyde has a better vid of uncharted which looks like the game of the show, waiting for even better footage.
GoW3 footage has seen this far are awful (gametrailer).
Pretty good show too but I'm clearly lacking more vids for now
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Which still doesn't negate the fact that Natal has far more potential than either Nintendo's or PS3's currently announced plans.
Everything that MS announced with regards to Natal is certainly possible. As grandious as they may be, it's all still quite possible.
As with everything it'll depend on what dev's make of it. Considering there's been far more shown of the capabilities of the Natal versus the PS3 wands, I'll put the Natal as ahead in the potential department for now.
I'm supposing the PS3 wands were also using what basically amounts to a tech demo. So were they also "lying" with regards to that? As it may or may not ever show up in a game in that form?
Regards,
SB
Do we have information on how the 360 solution works?
Perhaps the resources demanded from a proprietary CPU are few considering that they had it up and running on Burnout and worked considerably well
ShadowRunner
Veteran
How is the pointer workin? The wii pointing ability is from having the camera in the controller.
Natal's scope is bigger than PS3/Wii solution, of course it's gonna need more hp.
New Discussion Thread for all 3 motion controllers
Maybe there should be a new topic for discussions on all three motion controllers (feel free to move my post).
As for Sony's, my first reaction was that it was simply a wand with a glowing ball, with colours to differentiate between wands and players. The size of the ball from PSEye's 2d perspective helps determine depth, as others have pointed out. The ball is a pretty elegant, if simple solution to those problems.
But if it were that simple, I could have one right now with a light bulb on a stick (except for the buttons). Or Sony could simply release a cheap strap-on for the DS3 immediately (which makes it look... interesting).
So there is credence to the presence of an ultrasonic component (apart from the fact that Sony already has a patent for it), adding to the fact that the PSEye also has a microphone already. It doesn't completely solve the problem when the wand goes out of sight (as a limb could for the Natal as well), but I imagine the PSEye can still approximate the position of the wand behind a body somewhat.
It is promising...
Maybe there should be a new topic for discussions on all three motion controllers (feel free to move my post).
As for Sony's, my first reaction was that it was simply a wand with a glowing ball, with colours to differentiate between wands and players. The size of the ball from PSEye's 2d perspective helps determine depth, as others have pointed out. The ball is a pretty elegant, if simple solution to those problems.
But if it were that simple, I could have one right now with a light bulb on a stick (except for the buttons). Or Sony could simply release a cheap strap-on for the DS3 immediately (which makes it look... interesting).
So there is credence to the presence of an ultrasonic component (apart from the fact that Sony already has a patent for it), adding to the fact that the PSEye also has a microphone already. It doesn't completely solve the problem when the wand goes out of sight (as a limb could for the Natal as well), but I imagine the PSEye can still approximate the position of the wand behind a body somewhat.
It is promising...
Yes I thought of using a self-chosen equipment to weigh the players' hands down. It may give the players more natural feel -- especially with their own equipments.
The 3DV system can certainly be complemented by an additional controller to sense angle, grip and button pressure. It needs to be of the right shape though (That's the problem I had with SIXAXIS + PSEye).
We'll also need to see how precise the motion sensing system is. So far, both Nintendo and Sony claimed 1-to-1 mapping. MS will need to claim it one way or another.
It depends on what you want to do.
To demonstrate the difference clearly, Microsoft will need to come up with good applications for a full body 3D motion detection.
Very little of what has been shown on Natal couldn't be accomplished with the PS Eye and a software update.
Sony made no secret that they were tech demos using engineering prototypes. That said, Natal has actually shown, what, two kinds of gameplay? Breakout and painting? Oh, I guess they showed Burnout driving controls behind closed doors, but why wouldn't you just use a controller? There's not advantage to an invisible steering wheel. Sony showed FPS controls, RTS controls, Sword fighting controls, tennis/baseball controls, archery controls, extremely accurate painting controls, object stacking controls, flashlight controls... They've also demonstrated video overlay, including the ability to hold a virtual object. Maybe you're right, Natal is more potential right now, because it's all potential. PSMC is far more realized.
The Devil is in the details.
If you look closely, the natal has so many problems with it and limitations to which what games you can do that I don't want to even want to delve into what genres you can or cannot do. You are first limited to the area between the cameras, and also, you can't exactly move in the game unless you pick up a controller.
Motion sensing is further limited to the limbs and torso, and in the E3 conference, we have a complete black background (no lights to the audience), high contrast (with the spotlight on the girl) improving the motion sensing ability. This all gives the Natal a non-existant advantage on motion sensing when compared with the typical dark home (indoor lighting is generally very bad for cameras) or a complex background. Try using the motion sensing camera in a dark room when you are using a projector. I'll bet it will spell havoc, because havoc is what this situation has done to other motion sensors.
Having this terribly set up pre-existing situation and still having the lag and missed gestures, not a good sign to me.
as opposed to the Sony [strike]vibrate[/strike] glow stick, it excels in precision, being real time, as well as being double handed (without restrictions like cables or different sensors on each hand). You can write with it, as they have shown.
Not to mention that it is actually a PROVEN CONCEPT, and it is even possible to port Wii games over for heaven's sake... There's no "axis" or "direction" that the wii can do that the PS3 thing cannot do. What's left is the button layouts.
As for the "throw in the vectors" statement, nothing shows that better than the whip they introduced at the beginning, as well as the shield and sword demo. Gesture recognition doesn't do that.
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We probably should avoid making any claims about what the Natal (and Motion+ and whatever Sony's wand's name is) can or can't do until the hardware is in the userbase's hands. We can't count on an incisive look at any of these control schemes by the media.
Kinda defeats the purpose of a "controllerless" controller. It seems that the Natal needs a waggle after all. Without one, how would u walk forward in a virtually long corridor? How would you shoot a gun? How would you switch weapons (without the prospect of a new peripheral for each weapon type)? I don't think the reverse is necessarily as simple for the Natal either
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