Predict: The Next Generation Console Tech

[Proelite]

Windows 8 on PC don't need that much ram since they can use the hard-drive as memory in a pinch.

You can't do that on Durango, so you need to max amount memory for apps and os at all times.

 

[N2O]

And?what apps make you need 3GB?even you can stream your games from Durango you still don't need 2GB RAM
Or Durango OS actually is an AI?

 

[ImaginaryInsider]

Windows 8 on PC don't need that much ram since they can use the hard-drive as memory in a pinch.

You can't do that on Durango, so you need to max amount memory for apps and os at all times.

Have we had any rumors pointing to how the harddrive is going to be used? Anything is possible, but 3GB for the OS is huge. If it is true, there has to be a better answer than just the OS.

 

[DieH@rd]

If a console OS need 2 Cores and 3GB,they can just release this OS as another console lol

Well, maybe they will. There were several rumors that MS will release standalone "setup box/multimedia/streaming/light gaming" mini console...

 

[Gerry]

Well, maybe they will. There were several rumors that MS will release standalone "setup box/multimedia/streaming/light gaming" mini console...

I do wonder whether we'll see a separate box which has the cut-down specs (2-core, 3GB, etc) which is essentially only the set top box functionality. The full-spec box simply ups those specs so that you can play "Xbox" games. I guess it would make a certain amount of sense to have a complete separation of resources between these two "modes", certainly from a testing point of view.

 

[Squilliam]

SRAM is much lower density than eDRAM. Around 3-6x lower. I don't see the attraction for this application, except that it's easier/cheaper to manufacture.

Aren't there important analogue components to boost the signal etc in DRAM? Would that also apply to eDRAM because I heard off the top of my head that the latest DDR modules only have 30% of the area actually devoted to the memory cells themselves. Whilst that wouldn't negate an advantage if true, it would certainly limit it.

 

[Love_In_Rio]

So, what?. Next gen consoles could be volcanic island/20nm based?. I am starting to think Sea islands if in any point was an architecture enhancement has become just this rebranding to concentrate in next architecture ( GCN 2.0 or whatever is suppossed to be volcanic islands ).

 

[McHuj]

3. SRAM consumes less power than DRAM

I'm not sure that's true anymore at the low geometries like 28nm. Leakage power is increasing with each shrink and starting to dominate in some applications. That point from the article should not be considered definitive. If I recall correctly, in IBM's paper on the A2, they used eDRAM for the caches for power savings and area saving as we'll.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Depends what you mean by optimization.
On a PC you do everything you can to reduce draw calls, including copying buffers and coalescing things on the CPU, because the cost of that copying/coalescing is less than the cost of the draw call overhead.
On a console in general you try to minimize the copying involved because the bulk of the overhead in a draw call is the copy.
On a console you might want to submit world models broken into smaller pieces because the GPU has to do less work on offscreen or hidden polygons, on a PC you'd want larger pieces to reduce draw call overhead.

This is what people don't seem to understand about optimizations on a console, ignoring algorithmic improvements, rarely do you discover new tricks that allow things to run faster later in a console life, what you understand is how data flows through the system, and where time is spent, that let's you be smarter about how you organize the data. You simply can't do optimizations like this on a PC, because different hardware behaves differently, so you "optimize" for the worst cases across the hardware.

Thanks for the really informative post ERP, this is the kind of thing that makes B3D so much better than other forums.

So as a follow on to this, do you expect the draw call situation to be significantly worse next generation? Based on the numbers I'm seeing the best case scenario for PC's running DX11 this generation is maybe 1/5th the draw calls of PS360. Given the next gen consoles may be packing 3-4 times the CPU performance, should we expect that gap to open up to around 15-20x? Or are draw calls on consoles also not limited by CPU speed?

 

[pjbliverpool]

SRAM is much lower density than eDRAM. Around 3-6x lower. I don't see the attraction for this application, except that it's easier/cheaper to manufacture.

If they can get enough in there thought for a 1080p framebuffer (without MSAA) then the higher speed, lower power draw and lower cost to manufacture would all be big benefits I guess.

I assume with a modern process it would be possible to get a sufficent amount of SRAM on the chip to cover 1080p in a single frame. MSAA isn't that important anymore anyway with the move to shader based AA.

Developers could always go with lower resolutions and MSAA if they wanted to save shader resources.

 

[N2O]

Well saw another new next-gen thread in TGFC for some new rumors and funny replys

This time is from ex-UBI employee(but from other reply conright now he is in other 3rd party,not retired)
http://club.tgfcer.com/thread-6596213-2-1.html

First reply:"IF MS/Sony doesn't talk about how much RAM for their OS in E3,i will say it"

Second reply,he quote someone seems like is employee of Microsoft Vancouver(not sure is he working for game studios like Black Tusk or just Microsoft Vancouver)
And this is the funny one,or he really fxxked if everything is ture.
"You're finished,tomorrow i will mail to MS PR team because you leaked sensitive information."

 

[arijoytunir]

Well saw another new next-gen thread in TGFC for some new rumors and funny replys

This time is from ex-UBI employee(but from other reply conright now he is in other 3rd party,not retired)
http://club.tgfcer.com/thread-6596213-2-1.html

First reply:"IF MS/Sony doesn't talk about how much RAM for their OS in E3,i will say it"

Second reply,he quote someone seems like is employee of Microsoft Vancouver(not sure is he working for game studios like Black Tusk or just Microsoft Vancouver)
And this is the funny one,or he really fxxked if everything is ture.
"You're finished,tomorrow i will mail to MS PR team because you leaked sensitive information."

What did that Microsoft person leaked ?

 

[N2O]

What did that Microsoft person leaked ?

He said #1 AMD guy's info is true,8cores CPU,8GB RAM,HD8xxx,win8 core custom OS,640GB HDD
While another people ask "8900 or 8800 series?",he said "8880"<-i think it just typo,he mean 8800 series.

 

[arijoytunir]

He said #1 AMD guy's info is true,8cores CPU,8GB RAM,HD8xxx,win8 core custom OS,640GB HDD
While another people ask "8900 or 8800 series?",he said "8880"<-i think it just typo,he mean 8800 series.

Is hd 8800 the desktop variant ?
Anyway - good news

 

[pjbliverpool]

He said #1 AMD guy's info is true,8cores CPU,8GB RAM,HD8xxx,win8 core custom OS,640GB HDD
While another people ask "8900 or 8800 series?",he said "8880"<-i think it just typo,he mean 8800 series.

If that's not called Xbox 8 I'll eat my hat!

 

[Bagel seed]

He said #1 AMD guy's info is true,8cores CPU,8GB RAM,HD8xxx,win8 core custom OS,640GB HDD
While another people ask "8900 or 8800 series?",he said "8880"<-i think it just typo,he mean 8800 series.

I thought #1 AMD guy has the Bill Gates avatar? Who is b&w mustache guy?

 

[sir doris]

Is hd 8800 the desktop variant ?
Anyway - good news

According to the AMD wedsite it's an OEM version of the 7870 (pitcairn)

 

[Osamar]

He said #1 AMD guy's info is true,8cores CPU,8GB RAM,HD8xxx,win8 core custom OS,640GB HDD
While another people ask "8900 or 8800 series?",he said "8880"<-i think it just typo,he mean 8800 series.

It is not a typo, GPU code is HD8888

 

[N2O]

I though #1 AMD guy has the Bill Gates avatar?Who is b&w mustache guy?

Yes,that new thread in TGFC is about Xbox World rumors(we already know that few weeks ago),and B&W mustache guy said "这个是假的，阿杜透露的是真的。八核cpu，8g内存，8xxx显卡，windows 8内核特制os, 640g 硬盘。"="This one is fake,阿杜(=#1 AMD guy name)'s info is right,8cores CPU,8GB RAM,HD8xxx,win8 core custom OS,640GB HDD"

8880 typo(likely) was from B&W mustache guy second reply in same thread.

And B&W mustache guy seems working for Microsoft Vancouver(i still not sure).

 

[Bagel seed]

Cool. Guess their website is dead now after it was gaf'd... too bad.

If true, it's pretty bold (and maybe other things ) for a first party dev to leak info.