Post Xbox One Two Scorpio, what should Sony do next? *spawn* (oh, and Nintendo?)

All it is? Quite honestly for the last two and half years this is all we've heard. Power! Frames! Resolution! Did all of those things suddenly become unimportant? Isn't this what gamers are constantly complaining about?
Only the hardcore who represent a small subsection of the whole market.
Isn't better performance is what gamers asked for? All it is? Unless I've missed something gamers made it seem like these points were all that mattered.
If that were true, the market would have transitioned wholeheartedly from PS2 to XB. Move beyond the internet forums and look at Joe Public and his 200 million mates and their buying habits, and you'll see it's a number of parameters that determine platform choice. Always has been, always will be.
 
All it is? Quite honestly for the last two and half years this is all we've heard. Power! Frames! Resolution! Did all of those things suddenly become unimportant? Isn't this what gamers are constantly complaining about? Isn't better performance is what gamers asked for? All it is? Unless I've missed something gamers made it seem like these points were all that mattered. Even to the point of sacrificing everything else about gaming.
I'm not downplaying power given what has occurred this gen. I've also said many times that power regardless if visible by me and many others seems to have had a big impact. So I never said it's unimportant. I'm saying is that the way to mark what is next gen and what isn't when both neo and Scorpio will be playing the same multi plats, etc.
There's a power difference between xo and ps4, but we don't say there different gens, just different power.
As for exclusives, adoption will have the greatest impact on this policy. Plain and Simple. This entire argument will be decided upon this one defining point.
Precisely what I have said, I fully expect that once there are enough machines out to make it worth while that I expect exclusives to happen. Regardless of what the companies are currently saying. That's my view though, not what the company line is though. As both Sony and MS are saying no exclusives.
Neo could take somewhat longer, naturally because the PS4 has the larger install base and still enjoys robust sales that quite honestly have it locking in close to 60% marketshare of the console gaming space. And aside from being the market leader they also have a very satisfied user base. It's not the same with Xbox One users, for them the Scorpio can't get here soon enough.

Scorpio could more easily eclipse the X1's install base. And that's probably because a considerable percentage of the X1 install base will very likely make a mass exodus to Scorpio when it becomes available. The X1' s community reaction to Scorpio was almost rabid and will probably fiercely adopt the better console if priced for serious market penetration. It may also as iroboto stated, bring back some of the Xbox base that fell by the way side after the backlash of 2013.

So exclusives will happen when the conditions are right for them.
I'll just respond to this as a block.
One minute everyone is saying that a new console from ms is a mistake because it would upset the current xo owners, now your saying they we're all dying for it?
I think that most of the actual owners of xo and ps4 are happy. That doesn't mean they won't upgrade though.
10mill may upgrade from ps4 and xo, but obviously as a percentage of their user base that would be smaller for Sony. Doesn't mean xo owners were less happy, just means that the core gamers from both sides was willing to upgrade.

I think you've mid understood my posts, I've not once said who would sell better or worse, or if the power difference will make Scorpio a massive hit, or the potential price make it a flop.
I've just found that when people talk about the positive and negatives of neo and Scorpio, that most of the time it applies to both consoles.
 
For those who believe Neo is a current gen souped up PS4 and the PS5 will be a new gen, think about what you are saying. Are you saying that PS5 will be a restart and games will not be compatible with Neo? That would essentially give Neo a 3-4 year lifespan if PS5 is released 2019-2020.

Instead, I think when PS5 is released, Neo will be the base and PS4 will be phased out. These gens going forward will be continuous (games always cross-developed for current and at least current-1) so 4.x TF and 6 TF will be the base in 2020. However one defines current gen/next gen, in effective policy, MS and Sony won't be any different.
 
There is more to the difference between Scorpio and Neo than Price and Power expressed in TFLOPs.
The Neo is likely to be quite power efficient design, Sony should manage to have it fit in PS4-OneS form factor. I suspect the BOM at launch will be in the same ballpark as the BOM of the PS4 (same amount of ram, the SOC should be tinier but the wafers more expensive, same power usage). It comes with Sony exclusive and should carry on the PS4 momentum.
The Scorpio is different, MSFT is going all out on TFLOPS which in turn will raise the power usage really high. I think MSFT will give some more flexibility to the devs as: their OS and environment seems to be a better match for that and they do not risk as much as Sony when it comes to displeasing their current userbase and disrupting their momentum. There are unknown about the system and how much a difference the extra FLOPs will do in the greater scheme of things (ROPs numbers bandwidth, CPU type and speed) but it will be big or more expensive to cool, it might cost more.

If Sony and MSFT have access and use the same IP I could see my-self favoring Sony's take on the matter. There is the matter of the PS4 Slim if Sony made a proper one they will still have the proper 1080p systems that MSFT lacks and with a right price the combo could be more functional than the Scorpio-XB& (which for all its merits get few attention, an attention a PS4 Slim would steal if it were to take form).
 
Instead, I think when PS5 is released, Neo will be the base and PS4 will be phased out. These gens going forward will be continuous (games always cross-developed for current and at least current-1) so 4.x TF and 6 TF will be the base in 2020. However one defines current gen/next gen, in effective policy, MS and Sony won't be any different.

There is little sense in making a game ps5/Neo only. If it can run in Neo, it probably can run -in some way- on ps4. The only difference is 2x the gpu, and a slight upclock of everything else. Its a pretty inconsequential performance difference if actual ps5 has about 8-10x raw gpu and cpu performance and memory amount (all highly hypothetical ofcourse)
I think the transition is gonna be softer with ps5, with bc and a lot of cross-gen-in-a-single-box titles. But I feel like right now neither sony nor ms are really sure if they want to disrupt the generetional cycle culture completely just yet. Maybe later.
 
There is more to the difference between Scorpio and Neo than Price and Power expressed in TFLOPs.
The Neo is likely to be quite power efficient design, Sony should manage to have it fit in PS4-OneS form factor. I suspect the BOM at launch will be in the same ballpark as the BOM of the PS4 (same amount of ram, the SOC should be tinier but the wafers more expensive, same power usage). It comes with Sony exclusive and should carry on the PS4 momentum.
The Scorpio is different, MSFT is going all out on TFLOPS which in turn will raise the power usage really high. I think MSFT will give some more flexibility to the devs as: their OS and environment seems to be a better match for that and they do not risk as much as Sony when it comes to displeasing their current userbase and disrupting their momentum. There are unknown about the system and how much a difference the extra FLOPs will do in the greater scheme of things (ROPs numbers bandwidth, CPU type and speed) but it will be big or more expensive to cool, it might cost more.

If Sony and MSFT have access and use the same IP I could see my-self favoring Sony's take on the matter. There is the matter of the PS4 Slim if Sony made a proper one they will still have the proper 1080p systems that MSFT lacks and with a right price the combo could be more functional than the Scorpio-XB& (which for all its merits get few attention, an attention a PS4 Slim would steal if it were to take form).

Given that Scorpio will be under the Surface team, i have high expectations regarding power efficiency. They have done a damn good job with the hybrid cooling system for Surface Pro 4
 
There is little sense in making a game ps5/Neo only. If it can run in Neo, it probably can run -in some way- on ps4. The only difference is 2x the gpu, and a slight upclock of everything else. Its a pretty inconsequential performance difference if actual ps5 has about 8-10x raw gpu and cpu performance and memory amount (all highly hypothetical ofcourse)
that's interesting, do you think people would except sub 720p games on standard ps4?
I automatically just thought no, so I thought they wouldn't bother etc
where as I thought people would put up with 900p+ games on neo until they can upgrade.
what is the bottom graphically before you think they won't support the platform? Because you can dial lots of things back to make something payable, just will look really bad
 
There is little sense in making a game ps5/Neo only. If it can run in Neo, it probably can run -in some way- on ps4.
It should be equivalent to supporting PS3 and PS4 platforms, with PS5 games ported to the many millions of PS4's, and of course Neo getting versions. A couple of years into PS5, PS4 will be dropped as too limiting with PS5 and Neo being targets.
 
Given that Scorpio will be under the Surface team, i have high expectations regarding power efficiency. They have done a damn good job with the hybrid cooling system for Surface Pro 4
Apples and Oranges... Unless you are expecting a $1000 console using an Intel low-power CPU.

Efficiency is in the hands of the company making the APU, not the integrators.
 
My point is, I can't see a game being too tough for ps4, but ok for neo. If ps5 comes out with a big enough difference, cross gens might end up being an all or nothing deal. Maybe not so much with scorpio, but markets will also be a defining factor.
 
My point is, I can't see a game being too tough for ps4, but ok for neo. If ps5 comes out with a big enough difference, cross gens might end up being an all or nothing deal. Maybe not so much with scorpio, but markets will also be a defining factor.

It will be more work for the devs and so they will have to make a choice - ~2x the power is still a difference and that will hold the PS5 back even more. I don't think it'll be straight away, I would suggest a slow withdraw of support over a couple of years allowing devs to push PS5 harder.
 
PS5 games could be cross gen to PS4, but it'll likely be a game by game basis at the discretion of the publishers. The main point is, with PS5, there won't be an architectural/API barrier as there was in previous generations. As I said, Sony will likely require at least current plus current-1 to be supported. And devs can decide to go as far back as they want.

Even if MS/Sony hasn't said it, I think the era of the hard resets are over. So this whole argument of whether Neo is mid-gen or what is mostly semantics.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jay
Even if MS/Sony hasn't said it, I think the era of the hard resets are over. So this whole argument of whether Neo is mid-gen or what is mostly semantics.
Ms has said that already.
when Sony said who said there will be a ps5, that's what I also took from that also.
 
None of your arguments refute any of my points. You are not the target demographic MS needs to convince since you and your family/friends are already heavily into their ecosystem in every way, IIRC you are/were a big windows phone user aswell?

I dont think many big PC gamers have 3x the amount of friends on Xbox live compared to Steam. I mean Steam has 3x the amount of active users and Xbox One total numbers of units are like what? 20 million at the most?

If i love Nintendo and have convinced all my friends to buy WiiU and we all only use Nintendo, that doesnt actually mean Nintendo is just as popular with everyone else

You claim i will buy a third party title on MS store because my friends will be playing on Xbox, yet statistically they are more likely to be playing on PS4 based on sales. You believe Scorpio will change that but it would need to sell like hot cakes to change the demographics of the current landscape. It took Sony 3 years to hit 40 million units, you think Scorpio will reach that faster even though we are still in the middle of a console generation? The last generation was different, now a lot of people dont want to jump ship because they have a lot of games on PSN or Xbox live that they would lose if they switched

And again.. price! If MS is asking for 400 dollars for a smaller Xbox One then i would be shocked if Scorpio launches at 399


We already know that XBOX can be as popular as PlayStation. We saw it last gen when they both sold around 80-90M units world wide.

Last time MS had the better multiplatform titles.

This time it will be the same. If you want the best multiplatform titles on a console you get a scorpio. If you have a scorpio then your playing online with xbox live. If you want the best multiplatform performance and don't mind the issues that come with a pc , then get a pc. You can play on steam or you can play on windows store.

However if y ou like any of MS's first / second party titles your going to be playing then on windows store. Which will then have you meet and make friends on xbox live. Which can then sway you over to buying 3rd party games on windows store. If you don't have a lot of money you can also invest in the xbox one which will only get cheaper as time goes on and you can still play those games on xbox live. You get a free copy on windows store also if its a 1st / 2nd party title. So if you get a more powerful laptop in 2018 and it works better than the xbox one for those titles you can play on that. Hey guess what , your still in the xbox live eco system.


Sony is just a company on the verge of bankruptcy that got very lucky that MS fumbled the ball at the start of this generation. However it may shake out that this time that MS has sony squeezed between the cheap less powerful xbox one and the higher end Scorpio. What more Scorpio can be priced similar to the PS4 Neo.

If PS4 Neo and Scorpio are the same price but Scorpio plays all multiplatform games better , what is the point of the PS4 Neo ?
 
Apples and Oranges... Unless you are expecting a $1000 console using an Intel low-power CPU.

Efficiency is in the hands of the company making the APU, not the integrators.

Surface pro 3 starts at $600. Its only a $200 price difference than the ps4 launched at and $100 over the xbox one.

The cooling is exceptional. The i3 doesn't even need active cooling. If the surface team is in charge of the design of the xbox scorpio expect amazing things.


There is no reason that the surface team can't bring that ability over to the console and design a great cooling system in a small foot print.
 
Surely that's a testament to the i3 rather the Surface engineers? Doesn't the i3 just connect to the back as a heat spreader?
http://images.anandtech.com/doci/9727/IMG_6063.JPG

That's what it is but without the fan on the lower models.

Its an amazing cooling upgrade for such a small idea imo compared to the older surfaces

Surface pro 1/2 cooling

surface_pro_2_breakdown_lg.jpg


Surface pro 3 cooling

surfacepro3-cooling-system_large.jpg



surface pro 4

Surface-Pro-4-Cooling-Large.jpg
 
Sony is just a company on the verge of bankruptcy that got very lucky that MS fumbled the ball at the start of this generation. However it may shake out that this time that MS has sony squeezed between the cheap less powerful xbox one and the higher end Scorpio. What more Scorpio can be priced similar to the PS4 Neo.

If PS4 Neo and Scorpio are the same price but Scorpio plays all multiplatform games better , what is the point of the PS4 Neo ?
Even after winter 2017 PS4 is still more powerful than xbox Ones. In the cheaper market Sony may still lead.

But from the time Neo launches, SONY has xbox ones squeezed between the cheap powerful PS4 and the higher end NEO. By the time new xbox releases SONY already leads MS a larger gap so that they can wait for PS5 launches.
 
Back
Top