Technical Comparison Sony PS4 and Microsoft Xbox

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Yeah, I think the Forza 5 footage is unlikely to be actual gameplay, most probably it's from replay mode.

Err....duh? The camera angles should've told ya that.

And astrograds 'MS could well have increased the clocks' line is misguided, we haven't heard a single, actual rumour saying they increased the clocks, it's pure speculation at this point and the most likely scenario remains that vgleaks are completely on the money and MS is being creative to come up with their 200GB/s.

"speculation" =/= "misguided"

Ppl here are too eager to use dismissive language inappropriately. Confusing speculation with assumptions with assertions and then presuming any speculation is automatically 'misguided'. :rolleyes: And btw, we DID hear a rumor from VGLeaks saying the specs had been adjusted. Nobody noticed that evidently.

I mean they did claim it was a 1TF machine last gen by counting non-programmable ops (with Sony then claiming PS3 was 2TF lol)

'They' meaning MS's PR department...not their engineers on a hardware architecture panel. I don't think it's fair to hold Nick Baerk responsible for what Major Nelson said almost a decade ago while talking about a totally different product. That's just ridiculous. There are certainly better arguments to combat the points I've raised that don't need to rely on that kind of assumption.
 
"speculation" =/= "misguided"

Ppl here are too eager to use dismissive language inappropriately. Confusing speculation with assumptions with assertions and then presuming any speculation is automatically 'misguided'. :rolleyes: And btw, we DID hear a rumor from VGLeaks saying the specs had been adjusted. Nobody noticed that evidently.

Link people to the article then.
 
That would be more a 120W TDP then. The point isn't that they couldn't do that but that they defined it as 100W TDP and there's a diminishing return anyway because of their design decisions.

I regard the whole project as MS's coming Stalingrad for several reasons. A lost cause they'll drive so far into the ground to save the faces of the people in the command chain as long as humanly possible. We should start bets how many billions they'll vaporize before they'll change direction.

Thanks for the TDP figure. Do you have a direct quote by chance? Or a rough time stamp from the panel (assuming ya got it from there)?
 
BluRay for movie player, Xbox One is not Wii U.



From EuroGamer:



I guess the game aliasing is not an issue:

http://images.eurogamer.net/2011/articles//a/1/4/1/1/1/8/0/Forza_4_env2.bmp.jpg

No, I meant as examples of cutbacks in actual gameplay that the trailers of previous Forzas didn't show.

I don't think aliasing will be an issue next gen, but during actual gameplay, the car models, post processing effects etc might not be as good as shown in the FM5 trailer. We'll see though.

I'm guessing it will probably run at 1080p, since all the Forza's have run at 720p this gen with at least 2x MSAA. So getting visuals as per the trailer done in realtime at 1080p60 will be impressive.
 
No, I meant as examples of cutbacks in actual gameplay that the trailers of previous Forzas didn't show.

I don't think aliasing will be an issue next gen, but during actual gameplay, the car models, post processing effects etc might not be as good as shown in the FM5 trailer. We'll see though.

I'm guessing it will probably run at 1080p, since all the Forza's have run at 720p this gen with at least 2x MSAA. So getting visuals as per the trailer done in realtime at 1080p60 will be impressive.

Oh, ok, All Forzas have added some effects in replay and photo modes, and the trailer looks like a replay mode.
 
Thanks for the TDP figure. Do you have a direct quote by chance? Or a rough time stamp from the panel (assuming ya got it from there)?

Just common sense calculation from the Southern Islands TDPs you can check at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radeon_HD_7000_Series

The Jaguar TDPs were discussed here and anandtech I think. ESRAM+Misc is more an educated guesswork as there are no easily available numbers. I would put that at 10W.
 
Err....duh? The camera angles should've told ya that.

Sigh, ORLY.

I meant as opposed to running in realtime on gameplay settings with the camera disengaged like other games do, rather than being prerendered or from replay modes running at 30fps with higher LODs, motion blur, effects and AA.
 
ot but, a western digital tv is pretty awesome for this. 99 bucks. assuming you want a dumb box rather than a full fledged pc (i prefer a dumb box, easier).

in my experience 360 is ok, but has some problems refreshing folders sometimes, with some hd content, dont believe it supports mkv, etc. WDTV fixes all those problems and in my experience just works amazingly, plays every video you throw at it. oh and it's nearly hockey puck sized roku style for that matter, cant remember if it's passive cooled but definitely quiet. definitely one of my favorite products in the world. i guess the ui is kind of amateurish though for quibbles.

it would be nice if xbone was targeted to be a perfect streamer box too, fixing the issues with 360. unfortunately i doubt it's an area ms is interested in. no money in it for one (they'd rather funnel you to their pay video services), can be seen as piracy condoning for two.

I actually have a WDTV :p My only issues with it is the no amazon instant video, and it overheats a lot.
 
Ppl here are too eager to use dismissive language inappropriately. Confusing speculation with assumptions with assertions and then presuming any speculation is automatically 'misguided'. :rolleyes: And btw, we DID hear a rumor from VGLeaks saying the specs had been adjusted. Nobody noticed that evidently.

Ahem, astrograd you have been here for three months, IIRC you came from TeamXbox where you were entertaining rumours of raytracing chips, foveated rendering etc and then started spruiking your 'Durango is a TBDR' claim over here (not to mention dual APUs).

For example:
http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=681841&page=107

astrograd said:
It is now clear why the various insiders said what they did about the flops and bandwidth arguments being worthless and about efficiency. The 'special sauce' is the entire design philosophy targeting the removal of highly redundant processing inherent in modern graphics engines in the first place.

Make no mistake, the DME's and eSRAM are most certainly NOT there primarily to alleviate DDR3 bandwidth issues, as we all previously had assumed. DDR3 was NOT chosen just to be cheap, it was chosen more likely because higher bandwidth was simply not needed and to help with the thermodynamics. Think about it like this...

Sony went with a largely off the shelf, simple design for decent power at reasonable costs. MS could have very easily gone with the exact same setup. But they didn't. They evidently looked at the obvious setup and opted to spend more money at higher costs engineering a very elaborate, highly customized architecture that will be challenging to manufacture. Why? None of that helps the OS or even Kinect stuff one bit as far as anyone has been able to tell. So even in purely gaming terms they opted out of the cheap, easy, straight forward approach. They wouldn't spend all that extra money and effort and risk if both their engineers and AMD's didn't feel it was worthwhile.

It's not about one magical piece of hardware to make up the bandwidth of Flops difference as a 'secret sauce'. Their ace in the hole is designing the whole architecture to be 100% catered towards virtualized texturing, robust tiling, virtual geometry, low cost post processing fx, etc.

So it's been very clear from the start what your agenda is and how divorced your speculations are from reality.

'They' meaning MS's PR department...not their engineers on a hardware architecture panel. I don't think it's fair to hold Nick Baerk responsible for what Major Nelson said almost a decade ago while talking about a totally different product. That's just ridiculous. There are certainly better arguments to combat the points I've raised that don't need to rely on that kind of assumption
Oh, do you think that PS3 vs 360 comparative analysis sent to IGN was written by MS' PR team?
 
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Sigh, ORLY.

I meant as opposed to running in realtime on gameplay settings with the camera disengaged like other games do, rather than being prerendered or from replay modes running at 30fps with higher LODs, motion blur, effects and AA.

what other games? links please to other unreleased driving games. good luck.

So....you're taking 'specification updates' to mean 'increased clocks'?

Would you seriously argue that it couldn't? i mean, what are you really doing at this point?

I'm 90% sure theres no upclock btw.

BTW, didn't we have a thread that thinks Shadowfall was really raytracing, never mind any speculation? Was it made out to be a joke then too? Just saying. Were you in the stacked DDR4/TSV speculation posts decrying their unrealism and wishful thinking? Lets judge things equally here. Those were just as bad or worse but were just considered you know, speculation, not viciously attacked as wanton fanboyism.
 
what other games? links please to other unreleased driving games. good luck.

I meant games like COD, Battlefield, Crysis, Killzone etc. I never said 'other driving games' as I don't know, perhaps they all use prerendered or replay footage for trailers.
 
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Ranger going on article I read stack ram seem to be in the plans for the ps4. The tech just wasn't ready. Was there new info to disprove this? It's not like people just made it up.

Don't worry, speculation on message boards will likely not alter the reality.

:LOL:

At times it seem people think it does. It very funny to read these post that are just "out there."

as seen in this Gen with very different hardware, the games look pretty much alike. Now the base hardware is pretty much the same, the differences most likely will be minor.

how in the world does a huge Xbox fan get banned from teamxbox? :oops:
 
Would you seriously argue that it couldn't? i mean, what are you really doing at this point?
Oh I'm sure it could mean that - 'specification updates' could also mean they've finally added in the realtime ray tracing unit...

As the far less likely scenario, the burden of proof lies on those claiming MS increased the clocks to show why this is more probable than the clocks remaining unchanged.
'Specification updates' (also taken from a vgleaks post of questionable veracity, given MS doesn't seem to have any BC plans nor seem to care that they don't) does not supply said proof.

I'm 90% sure theres no upclock btw.
Good

BTW, didn't we have a thread that thinks Shadowfall was really raytracing, never mind any speculation? Was it made out to be a joke then too? Just saying. Were you in the stacked DDR4/TSV speculation posts decrying their unrealism and wishful thinking? Lets judge things equally here. Those were just as bad or worse but were just considered you know, speculation, not viciously attacked as wanton fanboyism.
Well the PS fanboys were shut down as no one still thinks Shadowfall is doing actual raytracing anymore.

I wouldn't have known anything about stacked DDR4 and the PS4 so was not in a position to comment.
 
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Oh I'm sure it could mean that - 'specification updates' could also mean they've finally added in the realtime ray tracing unit...

"Specification updates" could mean clock increases. That's all I'm saying. It seemed like you were implying it could not and I dont get why you would think that was a fruitful angle LOL. I'm speaking of the literal interpretation of the words.

And the realtime ray tracing unit is still a secret and has not yet been announced by us, I mean them, them, them of course. Shhh :LOL:
 
So....you're taking 'specification updates' to mean 'increased clocks'?

What other specs have been updated? Name them please. Go on...make a list if ya don't mind.

And not that it's at all on-topic, but I never claimed there'd be a raytracing chip on X1. Someone at TXB posted some pastebin crap saying it was, and Ketto attacked it by claiming nor hardware existed in the real world to do real time ray tracing. I corrected him and I noted that real time path tracing can exist on current GPU's today (see: Brigade by OTOY). Ketto didn't like getting corrected so we went back and forth at each other on the topic, but at not point did I *ever* claim it was on X1 hardware. Don't go quote mining only to invent arguments to present on my behalf please.

Oh, do you think that PS3 vs 360 comparative analysis sent to IGN was written by MS' PR team?

The 278.4GB/s bandwidth figure for 360 came from Major Nelson. Not Nick Baker. Drop that line of reasoning.

http://majornelson.com/2005/05/20/xbox-360-vs-ps3-part-1-of-4/


And there's no reason you shouldn't be able to plug a 360 Mini into a X1's HDMI input for "BC", just as the rumor says.
 
you mean like basically every next gen game shown yet (including all at the ps4 event except killzone)

it's annoying but for racing games for example, i dont think gameplay video/screens are even bothered to be released anymore. never seen a gameplay angle of a gran turismo game before it release i think. you wont see gameplay till you buy it and play it.

for played next gen you've got bf4 and shadowfall, that's it.

And watchdogs and knack...
 
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