"Yes, but how many polygons?" An artist blog entry with interesting numbers

COPS N RAPPERS said:
I took a look at Ayane From DOA 5 and her count isn't as high but she still does weigh a bit.

Polygon Numbers for Dead or Alive 5..

Dead or Alive 5 - lei Fang (circus outfit) 37,626 polygons
Dead or Alive 5 - Ayane (default outfit) 51,638 polygons (uses the exact same head from Razor's edge.)

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it's pretty much evident Tecmo doesn't like to bake a lot of their details onto a single mesh; where in comparison to other developers that may use the same amount for rounder detailing.
Click to expand...

Ok, just to clarify: is the NG3: Razor Edge models the same ones that was used for the original NG3 or were they upgraded in the Wii U version then ported over to the systems?
 
lwill said:
Ok, just to clarify: is the NG3: Razor Edge models the same ones that was used for the original NG3 or were they upgraded in the Wii U version then ported over to the systems?
Click to expand...

Gauging the WII-U version over the original game it was brighter, sharper and it came with the DOA5 Ayane. (which is playable.) as far as the texturing goes the characters didn't seem to get a boost, not that i'm aware of. the shadder effects in the wii-u version has a lot of bloom and some of the environments of which got extra detail and effects.

I got a chance to play the retail version of Razor's Edge (xbox 360). it seems to have just about everything the Wii-U version has, which should be the same with the ps3 version. the xbox 360 version of Razor's Edge is also much sharper and little brighter over it's copy of the original NG3.

Viperzerofsx said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92rb-8mYHE0

Star citizen Polygon count

Pilot 100,000
Fighter 300,000
Hanger 2,000,000
Carrier 7,000,000
Click to expand...

wow.:oops:

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I made list of new numbers, enjoy.

Polygon Numbers For Assorted Games.

Syndicate - Merit 9,178 polygons
Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning - Alyn Shir 11,415 polygons
Virtua Fighter 5 - Vanessa 14,429 polygons
Star Wars The Force Unleashed 2 - Starkiller (arena outfit) 17,876 polygons
Soul Calibur V - Xiba 22,060 polygons
First Of The North Star: Ken's Rage 2 - Kenshiro 22,935 polygons


I've covered a lot of this console gen of games, so i'll spending some time digging through whatever i can find else. feel free to share any numbers if you got the info, till next time. :smile2:
 
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Viperzerofsx said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92rb-8mYHE0

Star citizen Polygon count

Pilot 100,000
Fighter 300,000
Hanger 2,000,000
Carrier 7,000,000
Click to expand...

considering a carrier / hanger is like an actual level, no suprise there. from outside, the carrier wont be anywhere near 7mil in full frame. 100k for a pilot...not impossible, though perhaps somewhat pointless. Fighter....300k...should be doable, we were doing 100k poly cars on PGR3...and that was 6 years ago on a console
 
COPS N RAPPERS said:
Gauging the WII-U version over the original game it was brighter, sharper and it came with the DOA5 Ayane. (which is playable.) as far as the texturing goes the characters didn't seem to get a boost, not that i'm aware of. the shadder effects in the wii-u version has a lot of bloom and some of the environments of which got extra detail and effects.

I got a chance to play the retail version of Razor's Edge (xbox 360). it seems to have just about everything the Wii-U version has, which should be the same with the ps3 version. the xbox 360 version of Razor's Edge is also much sharper and little brighter over it's copy of the original NG3.
Click to expand...

I understand. Thanks for clarifying that. :)

proffesso said:
considering a carrier / hanger is like an actual level, no suprise there. from outside, the carrier wont be anywhere near 7mil in full frame. 100k for a pilot...not impossible, though perhaps somewhat pointless. Fighter....300k...should be doable, we were doing 100k poly cars on PGR3...and that was 6 years ago on a console
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing when I saw the actual fighter models. Considering how many polygons it is, it doesn't seem too impressive. Chris Roberts was saying that it is 10x more polygons in that model than what you would see in a current-gen game. I suppose that is good in a technical POV but they probably could use a 15-30k polygon model (with a concentration on the hands due to its major focus) and good normal maps to look just as good.

Considering the detail for the carrier and hanger, those polygon counts makes sense.
 
I like me some polygons. Sure, you can fake a good amount of detail with normal maps, but in the end, a high poly model (provided it's a good one) will always look better, particularly during close-ups (where the illusion of normal maps has a nasty habit of breaking). If normal maps really were the solution to everything, we wouldn't see models with hundreds of thousands or even millions of polygons in movies.
 
Sigfried1977 said:
I like me some polygons. Sure, you can fake a good amount of detail with normal maps, but in the end, a high poly model (provided it's a good one) will always look better, particularly during close-ups (where the illusion of normal maps has a nasty habit of breaking). If normal maps really were the solution to everything, we wouldn't see models with hundreds of thousands or even millions of polygons in movies.
Click to expand...
What's wrong with using relief/parallax mapping or tessellation instead of normal maps ?

The models in movies use polygons for more than just rounder shapes, they've got have cloth, muscle/object deformation, hair and details in areas you otherwise won't really need during gameplay. A high polygon count with rather simple shader would still look bad, compared to a normal polycount with very good shader work.
 
Sigfried1977 said:
...but in the end, a high poly model (provided it's a good one) will always look better.
Click to expand...

That's actually quite the opposite for cases where you have too many triangles relative to your pixel shading resolution, since you'll end up under-sampling which results in nasty shader aliasing. With normal maps you have mipmaps which at least prevents you from undersampling the surface detail itself, and with a little specular antialiasing you can almost completely avoid shader aliasing. This one of the several reasons why LOD is so important in games.
 
Killzone: Shadow Fall
40k for LOD0 on character.

guerrillagames1bojl3.jpg
 
KKRT said:
Killzone: Shadow Fall
40k for LOD0 on character.

guerrillagames1bojl3.jpg
Click to expand...

excellent, i didn't think their numbers would be revealed so soon, i'm very overjoyed on this bit of information. 40k max, 7 LODs, i guess that puts the idea of tessellation to rest.

Edit - they even got the LOD switching distances explained too; 0-2 feet used for the 40k LOD.
 
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COPS N RAPPERS said:
Edit - they even got the LOD switching distances explained too; 0-2 feet used for the 40k LOD.
Click to expand...
I expect it's 0-2 metres. 2 feet is hardly anything, such that the LOD0 would not be used except when abut to melee someone. Plus as a European developer, their natural measurements will be metric.
 
3dcgi said:
Tessellation creates polygons. La-Yosh is just saying you need something like a displacement map in order to position the polygons.
Click to expand...

You also usually need a higher resolution mesh to tessellate it well.

I wonder if those games are using LoD as just a mean to save on processing power, or also to reduce aliasing and memory footprint...
 
I can't see how LoD would reduce memory footprint. The only situation I can think of is for a mesh that has all its intances bellow a certain LoD, then you save bandwith from not ever having to read the heavier closer Lod mesh from memory, and you can save memory if you have mesh streaming system that load or just decompresses higher LoDs as needed. But with something like an enemy model, you are very likely to have multiple instances of him all around the level, probably at least one on each diferent LoD distance or almost one for each, and in that case you are using more memory and more bandwith than if you had just onw LoD at all. You are essentially trading in memory and bandwith for vertex processing and fragment efficency. Given ps4's strenghs and weaknesses, that seems like a smart trade-off. I think less aliasing comes as a bonus really.
 
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