xbox360 not hitting planned goals?
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EndR said:xbdestroya said:Oh sure, I agree with you there - I even said as much in my post. But you have to understand that for me, the mental excercise of discussing what this all means if it is true is what I myself enjoy, not necessarily wondering whether it's true. For that, I usually just assume it's in fact not true.
But... The rumor could be false, as in just BS, and yet still come to pass. So it's just another interesting scenario to discuss.
Let us say that this is true, would this mean that a PPU-unit is more likely to be in the machine??.. maybe...
you're assuming a PPU wasn't part of the initial design. It is possible, but it would be a major headache for several reasons.
1. CUrrent PPU designs call for their own bank of memory. You'd would need a custom design or a custom memory controller. These would have to be taped out and produced.
2. Dev kits would need to be updated. (again)
3. Some software may miss the launch window. (software the was using physics engine that may not support PPU's or were counting on more CPU in general and no physics, or already had a low frame rate to begin with)
4. New motherboard design.
5. heat issues
6. Business deals and legal departments.
7. TIME is ticking down, Novemeber is right around the corner.
jvd said:
Well, problems with a specific chip doesn't mean problems with others..
But I mean in terms of the "things being dumped".
I don't know for sure, anything, of course, but the PPE in Cell is supposed to be similar to the cores in X360. The first thing that struck me when I saw him mention MS/IBM "cutting things out", was how lean the PPE in Cell is..
Not to jump to conclusions, of course, the "things that were cut out" could have been MS-specific. But it also could be similar to some choices made with the PPE.
Of course, you then get into the argument if this would affect Cell as badly given its focus isn't on the PPE etc. etc. But that's probably getting way too ahead of ourselves.
For one, is path forwarding out of the Cell PPE?
jvd said:
Hey now, Sony's fabs use joint Sony/Toshiba tech - they didn't get their proccesses from IBM. I'll grant you they DID get their SOI tech from IBM, but in fact as far as die shrinks are involved, Sony is helping to fund IBM's move to 65nm completely independently of their own proccess shrink. I'm not saying one is better than the other, I just think that whatever happens to IBM, Sony's own fab will sink or swim on it's own merits.
I view it kind of like the AMD deal. AMD is benefiting from IBM's help in certain areas, again especially SOI, but as far as fabbing goes AMD's actually more on top of things than IBM themselves I feel.
IBM's not known for being a very strong fab.
EDIT: Then again I don't know if the Nagasaki fab is actually producing yet or not, so it might be a moot point anyway. Depending on when it does gear up and when PS3 launches, IBM might indirectly be setting the chips specs anyway, just due to the fact that a large amount of the initial console chips could end up coming from Fishkill.
xbdestroya said:
[offtopic] It's very apparent this board is pro Sony and Nintendo and somewhat biased against xbox. Not so much now though. But it rarely ever gets to the point of trolling on other boards. Also the debates are intelligent for the most part. I migrated here from teamxbox because that board has gone downhill with morons. Average post is "HOw much better will xbox2 be than ps3?" or "I have $100 what game should I buy?" or "Here's a pic of the xbox2 graphics card..." (followed by a link to a ATI x850xt). [/offtopic]
Pozer said:EndR said:xbdestroya said:Oh sure, I agree with you there - I even said as much in my post. But you have to understand that for me, the mental excercise of discussing what this all means if it is true is what I myself enjoy, not necessarily wondering whether it's true. For that, I usually just assume it's in fact not true.
But... The rumor could be false, as in just BS, and yet still come to pass. So it's just another interesting scenario to discuss.
Let us say that this is true, would this mean that a PPU-unit is more likely to be in the machine??.. maybe...
you're assuming a PPU wasn't part of the initial design. It is possible, but it would be a major headache for several reasons.
1. CUrrent PPU designs call for their own bank of memory. You'd would need a custom design or a custom memory controller. These would have to be taped out and produced.
2. Dev kits would need to be updated. (again)
3. Some software may miss the launch window. (software the was using physics engine that may not support PPU's or were counting on more CPU in general and no physics, or already had a low frame rate to begin with)
4. New motherboard design.
5. heat issues
6. Business deals and legal departments.
7. TIME is ticking down, Novemeber is right around the corner.
Well, hard to say IF the PPU was in fact in the original design.. sure, why not, it would let the tri-core setup handle everything else needed and if they now would need more power for physics, maybe they could lend more power from one of the tri-cores..
anyways..
I understand that a PPU-unit would be harder to just "put in", because like you said, the motherboard would have to be modified and all the heat issues etc...
This should be very interesting to see...
By devs, you mean software devs, whereas xbdestroyer is talking about the design of the XB360 hardware needing a total rethink to incorporate a PPU if they suddenly decide to throw one in to compensate for lower CPU performance.jvd said:
If XenonCPU is not as powerful as MS anticipated, and if they decide to add a PPU to compensate, it'll be too late, is the idea here.
As for the software devs, if they're using the official Novodex physics engine or whatever it is, adjusting to incorporate the presence of a hardware accelerator ought to be pretty straightforward I'd have thought.
DEO3 said:rusty said:
Are you kidding me? His very first sentence is:
fair point....
in all honesty people can complain all they want about it being a quote from GAF, but my whole intention was to get an interesting debate on such a possibility here at an intelligent place, and you know what? it worked! there's plenty of good reasoning and speculation in this thread - and i found some people's input interesting... i don't see where the harm is.
xbdestroya - despite the dubious name, i find a lot of your posts interesting and well ablanced... keep it up!
Guess we probably have to notch this one up as another attention whore's attempt at five minutes of glory by posting another "xbox-the-sky-is-falling" doomsday rumor.
If the CPU cores of nextbox are the same as in cell (and possibly revolution too, god forbid!), as other rumors strongly imply, then how could nextbox cores have trouble reaching 3GHz when cell reaches 4.6 and more? You'd have to assume sony's yields are rotten too and they cherrypicked a core to demonstrate publically to buy the idea of MS being in trouble now...
Things don't all add up logically, and when one factors in the hype around any new console launch it tends to point at this rumor being false.
And statistically, almost all rumors in this biz ARE completely made up!
If the CPU cores of nextbox are the same as in cell (and possibly revolution too, god forbid!), as other rumors strongly imply, then how could nextbox cores have trouble reaching 3GHz when cell reaches 4.6 and more? You'd have to assume sony's yields are rotten too and they cherrypicked a core to demonstrate publically to buy the idea of MS being in trouble now...
Things don't all add up logically, and when one factors in the hype around any new console launch it tends to point at this rumor being false.
And statistically, almost all rumors in this biz ARE completely made up!
rusty said:xbdestroya - despite the dubious name, i find a lot of your posts interesting and well ablanced... keep it up!
Hmmm... I don't know whether to be flattered or not.
To lay it out, the name is only for cross-forum consistency - not because I hate XBox. The actual reasons I chose the name predate my serious posting in any of the forums to which I presently belong, but nonetheless I decided to keep it for that consistency I mentioned before - something I feel is very important in the great digital morass of the Internet.
Believe me I regret the name choice pretty heavily these days, since the instinct of most people first encountering me is to think, 'fan-boy!' But by the same token, having the same name cross-forum has it's obvious advantages - even if the name itself is unfortunate.
As hopefully I've shown, I am anything but a fan-boy.
therealskywolf
Regular
IF something like this were to happen, MS and IBM would have realized it a good time ago, Meaning that they would have to move to plan B and make some changes to the Hardware. I doubt that MS would be like "Meh who cares, 60% is fine." Really.......
Maybe this is true, and maybe those PPU on the Xbox360 actually hold water.
But have you guys read the ammount of BS that the guys at GAF have been writing? I mean its like all of a sudden, since we are close to E3, everybody knows inside Info........
And every weak comes a guy sayin how bad Xbox360 is turning out for MS.....i mean jesus......
Maybe this is true, and maybe those PPU on the Xbox360 actually hold water.
But have you guys read the ammount of BS that the guys at GAF have been writing? I mean its like all of a sudden, since we are close to E3, everybody knows inside Info........
And every weak comes a guy sayin how bad Xbox360 is turning out for MS.....i mean jesus......
The rumor is possible. I wouldn't discard it so easily. There are so many variables, nearly everything is a possibility till things are finalized (physically finalized, not decided at a board meeting).
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