Xbox Series S [XBSS] [Release November 10 2020]

[Alucardx23]

I need help to understand something. I was under the impression that the SOC in the XSS is basically the same in the XSX, but one that did not qualify to be in the XSX due to manufacturing defects, but does have enough working parts to be used in the XSS. Is this the case or the XSS SOC is an entirely different part designed and manufactured separately?

 

[Rurouni]

^Different SOC. XsX die size is 360.45mm2, XsS is 197.05mm2
https://www.xbox.com/en-US/consoles/xbox-series-x#specs
https://www.xbox.com/en-US/consoles/xbox-series-s#target-specs

 

[cheapchips]

I need help to understand something. I was under the impression that the SOC in the XSS is basically the same in the XSX, but one that did not qualify to be in the XSX due to manufacturing defects, but does have enough working parts to be used in the XSS. Is this the case or the XSS SOC is an entirely different part designed and manufactured separately?

The XSS SOC is not a binned XSX part. It's a unique chip. Cheaper and more power efficient to do it that way. The SOC has the same 8 core CPU but the GPU CU's are cut down. It's still an RDNA2 GPU with all the features, just less oomph.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

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https://www.4gamer.net/games/990/G999028/20200919003/

Here's hoping Microsoft will make a mobile console out of this ASAP.
It's basically a Renoir where they take off the 8CU Vega and put a 20CU RDNA2 at about the same clocks, and switch the 128bit DDR4/LPDDR4 memory controller for a 128bit GDDR6 one. It even came at only 41mm^2 more.
I really don't see any other reason why Microsoft would leave the GPU clocks at 1550MHz and not at least hitting the same 1850MHz as the larger SeriesX, considering it's a home console.
And I imagine SeriesS SoC at 5nm would go down to ~120mm^2 while sipping less power.


That said, a $300 SeriesS home console in 2020 sounds completely uninteresting to me personally, as it looks more like a side-grade to the OneX than generational upgrade.
However, a SeriesS Mobile for $400-600 in e.g. late 2021, with a 1080-1440p 8-9" AMOLED HDR screen? I'd be a day-one customer of that.

 

[Lalaland]

I would take the battery technology from this magical device and make the world an infinitely better place. PSU on the PS5 is 350W haven't seen numbers for the XBSS, even allowing for the need for space and efficiency that's got to be at least a 100-150W of actual power draw under usage. There is now way in hell you will see an XBSS in a mobile form factor that isn't a cart with car batteries in it any time soon. There isn't a die shrink in the world that offers the 95% or so power drop you would need for such a thing.

 

[cheapchips]

I would take the battery technology from this magical device and make the world an infinitely better place. PSU on the PS5 is 350W haven't seen numbers for the XBSS, even allowing for the need for space and efficiency that's got to be at least a 100-150W of actual power draw under usage. There is now way in hell you will see an XBSS in a mobile form factor that isn't a cart with car batteries in it any time soon. There isn't a die shrink in the world that offers the 95% or so power drop you would need for such a thing.

I didn't manage to find the Ws for the S, however I did notice the airflow arrow on the PSU. The big SOC fan is sucking air through the PSU , across the big heatsink and out the black big mac order grill.

Really, little details like the arrow are why I've loved MS hardware efforts since the One S/X. Totally unnecessary, but somehow essential.

 

[Alucardx23]

^Different SOC. XsX die size is 360.45mm2, XsS is 197.05mm2
https://www.xbox.com/en-US/consoles/xbox-series-x#specs
https://www.xbox.com/en-US/consoles/xbox-series-s#target-specs

The XSS SOC is not a binned XSX part. It's a unique chip. Cheaper and more power efficient to do it that way. The SOC has the same 8 core CPU but the GPU CU's are cut down. It's still an RDNA2 GPU with all the features, just less oomph.

Thanks, I was under the impression that Microsoft was repurposing failed Xbox Series X chips for Series S use. Even if parallel to this they also manufacture Series S chips, why not take advantage of the Series X chips that can surely be reused?

 

[iroboto]

Thanks, I was under the impression that Microsoft was repurposing failed Xbox Series X chips for Series S use. Even if parallel to this they also manufacture Series S chips, why not take advantage of the Series X chips that can surely be reused?

They are likely being binned for other purposes. Just not for consoles. Can't say more on this.

 

[BRiT]

They are likely being binned for other purposes. Just not for consoles. Can't say more on this.

B3D needs to upgrade to XF 2.x so I can insert the "innocent whistling" emoji.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

They are likely being binned for other purposes. Just not for consoles. Can't say more on this.

If you're referring to MX, Microsoft will hunt you down and kill you which is permissible under the NDA you signed.

 

[iroboto]

 

[cheapchips]

If you're referring to MX, Microsoft will hunt you down and kill you which is permissible under the NDA you signed.

MEGATON!

 

[Frenetic Pony]

Here's hoping Microsoft will make a mobile console out of this ASAP.
It's basically a Renoir where they take off the 8CU Vega and put a 20CU RDNA2 at about the same clocks, and switch the 128bit DDR4/LPDDR4 memory controller for a 128bit GDDR6 one. It even came at only 41mm^2 more.
I really don't see any other reason why Microsoft would leave the GPU clocks at 1550MHz and not at least hitting the same 1850MHz as the larger SeriesX, considering it's a home console.
And I imagine SeriesS SoC at 5nm would go down to ~120mm^2 while sipping less power.


That said, a $300 SeriesS home console in 2020 sounds completely uninteresting to me personally, as it looks more like a side-grade to the OneX than generational upgrade.
However, a SeriesS Mobile for $400-600 in e.g. late 2021, with a 1080-1440p 8-9" AMOLED HDR screen? I'd be a day-one customer of that.

Sadly there's no way to fit this in a mobile TDP. The CPU requirements alone outweigh that, as the clockspeeds are way above the efficiency point. BUT, hells who knows. Maybe iroboto is right and there's some crazily cut down bin that'll be clocked around the TSMC 7nm sweet spot of 1.2ghz or whatever it is. I can foresee a requirement to put all Series titles on the mobile one as well as leading to a nigh rebellion amongst developers, it would just be a fucking pain. But optional? I can totally see that.

Besides, AMD seems to be competitive with ARM (now a Nvidia division most likely, if it goes through regulators) on CPU performance per watt, and ahead of Nvidia on that in the mobile Space.

The Switch HD might disappoint me, but maybe the... Series M? Will be what I'm looking for.

 

[mawver]

They are likely being binned for other purposes. Just not for consoles. Can't say more on this.

Samsung TVs

 

[BRiT]

Samsung TVs

There may be an event at the end of the month. Usually this event is held in October but it may arrive early this year.

 

[eastmen]

Samsung TVs

XSS is ripe for a 5nm mobile version

https://thesiliconreview.com/story_...iconreview-dells-new-ufo-inspired-machine.jpg

 

[JasonLD]

XSS is ripe for a 5nm mobile version

https://thesiliconreview.com/story_...iconreview-dells-new-ufo-inspired-machine.jpg

No need for mobile XSS when they are bringing xcloud to all android platforms lol.

 

[eastmen]

No need for mobile XSS when they are bringing xcloud to all android platforms lol.

There is certainly still a need for a portable system. I love xcloud but at the same time I can't get it on a plane , its not great on a train either or honestly where ever your switching between towers quickly or have a bad signal.

A dedicated machine is still a required piece of the puzzle.

 

[JasonLD]

There is certainly still a need for a portable system. I love xcloud but at the same time I can't get it on a plane , its not great on a train either or honestly where ever your switching between towers quickly or have a bad signal.

A dedicated machine is still a required piece of the puzzle.

There are certainly going to be some situations where xcloud would not work well. There is no need for MS to cover all grounds when it comes to gaming. xCloud on smartphones satisfies most of portable gaming situations well enough that there is no need to create separate dedicated handheld.
It is just going to be a waste of engineering and marketing resources.

 

[turkey]

There are certainly going to be some situations where xcloud would not work well. There is no need for MS to cover all grounds when it comes to gaming. xCloud on smartphones satisfies most of portable gaming situations well enough that there is no need to create separate dedicated handheld.
It is just going to be a waste of engineering and marketing resources.

Hardware would be a business Microsoft does not want to enter.

Software wise, with Xcloud and gamepass that does open up more realistic options to develop slower games that would fit the handheld or casual niche. They would be regular games but from inception and design they could be targeting that use case more than the 4k living room tv.

It will be interesting to see if Microsoft develop more gamepass specific content to broaden the spectrum of the service.