Xbox Series S [XBSS] [Release November 10 2020]

[Deleted member 13524]

Even by your own math this 25W system would be looking at 2 hours of battery life? Is such a thing even portable in a useful sense of the word?

But a 25W system isn't going to consume 25W on average. We're talking about maximum consumption during short bursts and no game should ever be able to push that much power continuously.
A 50Wh battery on a 25W TDP system should be good for 2.5-3.5 hours, which seems just ok for a large tablet-sized mobile console.

IDK, I guess I'm just saying I want to throw my money at any company who makes a decent forward-looking mobile console. And I don't want a Switch. I'm fed up with Nintendo IP and Doom at smartwatch resolution just doesn't cut it for me.

I guess this runs into my existing disdain for the concept of the gaming notebook, it's either a great notebook with low weight and great battery life and thus bad gaming perf or it weighs 5kg, runs for 60 mins on battery and is good for gaming.

What's so bad about providing alternatives for people who want to both work/study and play videogames on the same device and always have a power outlet available next to them?
It's (a lot) cheaper to get a 2-2.5Kg 15" laptop with e.g. a 6-core CPU and RTX 2060 for working and playing games, than it is to buy a thin-and-light plus a desktop with similar hardware.

 

[eastmen]

But a 25W system isn't going to consume 25W on average. We're talking about maximum consumption during short bursts and no game should ever be able to push that much power continuously.
A 50Wh battery on a 25W TDP system should be good for 2.5-3.5 hours, which seems just ok for a large tablet-sized mobile console.

IDK, I guess I'm just saying I want to throw my money at any company who makes a decent forward-looking mobile console. And I don't want a Switch. I'm fed up with Nintendo IP and Doom at smartwatch resolution just doesn't cut it for me.


What's so bad about providing alternatives for people who want to both work/study and play videogames on the same device and always have a power outlet available next to them?
It's (a lot) cheaper to get a 2-2.5Kg 15" laptop with e.g. a 6-core CPU and RTX 2060 for working and playing games, than it is to buy a thin-and-light plus a desktop with similar hardware.

OG switch would get 3-4 hours of battery life
https://www.trustedreviews.com/news/nintendo-switch-battery-life-2949802
https://www.tomsguide.com/news/new-nintendo-switch-battery-life-tested-how-much-better-is-it


Anyway I continue to use the Dell UFO as proof of concept. It has a nice 8 inch screen vs the 6.2 inch of the switch would allow them larger internal space for battery

The switch has a really small battery when all is said and done. I think MS could do a much better job looking at some of the surface designs .

The surface go 2is a 10.5 inch screen but it would give you a good idea of the lay out they could do internally

The surface go 2 has a 27WH vs the 16WH of the Nintendo switch.


Also I already travel with a 10,000MAH battery to keep my switch charged for traveling. So i don't mind using it on a portable xbox.

Like I said previously the switch has a docked and undocked mode. Just use the same principal on the xss portable. 1080p/1440p when docked to display on tv. 720p or 900p upscaled when protable so you can run at slower clocks. Plus power savings and efficiency gains from a newer zen and a newer gpu .

But hey we will see what comes down the pipe. I know if the dell ufo hits at some point and has a decent cpu/gpu i would buy it in a heart beat

 

[JasonLD]

we will see what the future brings

They are investing heavily on subscription gaming in Game Pass and xCloud accessible on smartphones so they don't have to waste investment on dedicated portable console.
Even if they come out with dedicated portable device, I expect it will be some kind of low cost ARM device dedicated for xCloud gaming.

 

[Lalaland]

We have no idea what the Dell UFO was but I can assure you it was not an Xbox S series class part. At all. The fact they refused to tell anyone what parts were in it and it has never been actually productised is a pretty good sign it would have been marginally capable of running modern titles. It was a show pony for a trade show to get people excited, as someone who has had to stand on a hardware vendor stand trying to get people excited about notebooks and desktops something like this would have been a blessing from the gods to try and get press or attendees to stop for longer than it takes to pick up a USB key, a brochure and go.

As an aside games are a worst case scenario for battery based devices, they max out CPU/GPU at very high activity levels even when the game is "idle" ith no input and staring at the sky meaning that the common "race to sleep" power management on high wattage CPUs can't work in the same way they do while web browsing or using productivity apps. I get the attraction of a compact, portable gaming device but given the parts in an Xbox Series S, the Series S itself is likely the smallest most compact version of that hardware you will see. Tear downs are going to reveal several hundred grams of heatsink on that thing that can't be mitigated by using the chassis as a heatsink as in Surface or other ultra-slim devices.

 

[Silent_Buddha]

There may be an event at the end of the month. Usually this event is held in October but it may arrive early this year.

A Surface device using Anaconda (Surface Studio) or Lockhart (any) would be...YUM.

Considering my Surface Book 2 can consume over 100 watts when the NV GPU kicks in, they can probably make Lockhart work in something like that. Lower clockspeed down to mobile Zen 2 levels (base 2.x boost 3-4.x) for Lockhart when not gaming and lock it to XBSS levels when gaming or heavily using CPU + GPU (productivity). Man that would be an awesome device likely with similar power or better power consumption than the Surface Book 2.

Regards,
SB

 

[Silent_Buddha]

But that's my point Renoir mobile CPUs have logic to aggressively downclock at every turn, MS has deliberately changed that behaviour with their console to run locked. You can't just flip the power saving stuff back on (not least because various sensors to support it are probably absent from chunks of the chip) as it will instantly break compatibility with every title. Not to mention the chips in notebooks are not 65W, how would you even evacuate that much heat from a notebook that wasn't a foot thick?

Zen 2 CPUs are capable of either boost mode or locked frequencies. It's something you can toggle in the BIOS. I'm not sure whether MS would have bothered to remove this capability completely from their SOC or not. I guess it would depend on whether there are significant cost (die area) savings for doing so. And if there are, whether MS were already thinking about other devices they could use the SOC in or not.

Considering that XBSX still retains the capability of adjusting the CPU clockspeed via software, I'd imagine this capability hasn't been removed on either Anaconda or Lockhart. They've just chosen to lock the frequency and not expose adjustments to it to end users and maybe not even developers (outside of the binary toggle for XBSX).

Regards,
SB

 

[function]

A Surface device using Anaconda (Surface Studio) or Lockhart (any) would be...YUM.

Considering my Surface Book 2 can consume over 100 watts when the NV GPU kicks in, they can probably make Lockhart work in something like that. Lower clockspeed down to mobile Zen 2 levels (base 2.x boost 3-4.x) for Lockhart when not gaming and lock it to XBSS levels when gaming or heavily using CPU + GPU (productivity). Man that would be an awesome device likely with similar power or better power consumption than the Surface Book 2.

Regards,
SB

Even if you couldn't maintain XSS clocks, what you're describing would make a very potent little machine. I guess GDDR6 power consumption might be a thing, but you could clock it lower to save a good chunk of power.

And it'd smash any other SoC on the market for a mobile device, and give some of the mid range mobile parts a good run for their money too given its bandwidth. 16GBs of ram would be possible too, which is competitive for most laptops.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

A Surface device using Anaconda (Surface Studio) or Lockhart (any) would be...YUM.

Considering my Surface Book 2 can consume over 100 watts when the NV GPU kicks in, they can probably make Lockhart work in something like that. Lower clockspeed down to mobile Zen 2 levels (base 2.x boost 3-4.x) for Lockhart when not gaming and lock it to XBSS levels when gaming or heavily using CPU + GPU (productivity). Man that would be an awesome device likely with similar power or better power consumption than the Surface Book 2.

Regards,
SB

Well to lift your hopes up (probably to have them crushed when they actually announce something on it), there's this Van Gogh APU that no one knows what it is.

It's not Renoir's follow-up, as that is Cezanne: Zen3 + Vega with LPDDR4X for mobile and DDR4 for desktop.
It's Zen2 + RDNA2 just like the consoles, but then it uses LPDDR4X + LPDDR5 (starting at 6400MT/s) and the lack of regular DDR means it's probably a mobile SoC.

In the end, it looks like a semi-custom in the lines of the chinese Zhongshan Subor SoC, otherwise it overlaps with Cezanne quite a bit.
It could be something for Apple or for Microsoft. Truth be told, the "custom APU" they put on last year's Surface Laptop was actually just a slightly binned Picasso with one more CU enabled, but both Microsoft and AMD at the time claimed the semicustom partnership was supposed to last beyond that.

 

[iroboto]

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/10...cid=Platform_soc_omc_xbo_tw_Photo_lrn_10.13.1
New technology to double framerates

Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S bring next-gen performance to your favorite games. Higher, steadier framerates make games feel smoother, resulting in more immersive gameplay. Many improvements are the result of the custom designed processor that allows compatible games to play and leverage the increased CPU, GPU and memory from the new consoles. In addition however, the backward compatibility team has developed new methods for effectively doubling the framerate on select titles. While not applicable for many titles due to the game’s original physics or animations, these new techniques the team has developed can push game engines to render more quickly for a buttery smooth experience beyond what the original game might have delivered due to the capabilities of the hardware. Fallout 4 framerate, shown below, is effectively doubled from 30fps to 60fps on Xbox Series S, delivering a new way to preserve and enjoy this legendary title.

2x framerate. Man as someone that started and stopped FO4. Yea, it really needed that 60fps boost badly.

16x AF

 

[Lalaland]

That still looks like Fallout 4, smdh

 

[function]

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/10...cid=Platform_soc_omc_xbo_tw_Photo_lrn_10.13.1
New technology to double framerates

Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S bring next-gen performance to your favorite games. Higher, steadier framerates make games feel smoother, resulting in more immersive gameplay. Many improvements are the result of the custom designed processor that allows compatible games to play and leverage the increased CPU, GPU and memory from the new consoles. In addition however, the backward compatibility team has developed new methods for effectively doubling the framerate on select titles. While not applicable for many titles due to the game’s original physics or animations, these new techniques the team has developed can push game engines to render more quickly for a buttery smooth experience beyond what the original game might have delivered due to the capabilities of the hardware. Fallout 4 framerate, shown below, is effectively doubled from 30fps to 60fps on Xbox Series S, delivering a new way to preserve and enjoy this legendary title.

2x framerate. Man as someone that started and stopped FO4. Yea, it really needed that 60fps boost badly.

16x AF

Pure wizardry!

And improved texture filtering. It's amazing just how "next gen" last gen games can look when you can actually see them.

 

[BRiT]

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/10...cid=Platform_soc_omc_xbo_tw_Photo_lrn_10.13.1

This part makes sense and was entirely something I never would have thought of, being a longtime Gold user already.

And, with cloud saves, you’ll jump right back in where you left off. For those of you still enjoying Xbox 360, cloud saves will soon be free to all Xbox 360 users, making transferring your favorite games to Xbox Series X and Xbox Series S even easier.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

In addition however, the backward compatibility team has developed new methods for effectively doubling the framerate on select titles.

I'm already beginning to dislike this phrase.

 

[iroboto]

I'm already beginning to dislike this phrase.

haha indeed.
though for them I understand the terminology behind select titles, which when read, I feel to expect less than 10% of BC titles to be select titles.

 

[BRiT]

I'm already beginning to dislike this phrase.

Would you rather they not offer it for free and leave it to the publishers to put out weak effort Remastered titles, if anything?

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Would you rather they not offer it for free and leave it to the publishers to put out weak effort Remastered titles, if anything?

It's a free market but you misunderstand. It's the lack of specificity and meaning of the phrase. I.e, what makes a title a selected title?

 

[BRiT]

It's a free market but you misunderstand. It's the lack of specificity and meaning of the phrase. I.e, what makes a title a selected title?

One where the enhancement(s) are able to work.

It can't have certain aspects of the game engine tied to frequency, like animations that would be run at twice the speed, so a 10 second animation doesn't finish in 5 seconds.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

One where the enhancement(s) are able to work.

Exactly, but that is not the definition of select, which implies choice. Which is why I dislike it.

 

[iroboto]

Exactly, but that is not the definition of select, which implies choice. Which is why I dislike it.

well there are different ways to view that. Select can be used to describe most suitable or carefully chosen. Hand picked etc.

To me when I read select, come to think of a small number of titles. A select number of titles.

When someone uses select to represent a majority, I find that language confusing. That isn't select, that's just a few bad apples that didn't make it.

 

[AzBat]

Two may toe --- Too maw toe

Different versions of the English language(US vs British).

Being pedantic. :/

Tommy McClain