Xbox Series S [XBSS] [Release November 10 2020]

[Jay]

Hardware would be a business Microsoft does not want to enter.

Software wise, with Xcloud and gamepass that does open up more realistic options to develop slower games that would fit the handheld or casual niche. They would be regular games but from inception and design they could be targeting that use case more than the 4k living room tv.

It will be interesting to see if Microsoft develop more gamepass specific content to broaden the spectrum of the service.

Games more aimed at xcloud/mobile aren't they just mobile games that you get from the mobile store already.

Isn't xcloud supposed to be console games on your mobile device (or laptop/tv etc)?

In terms of games that aren't twitch based and less latency sensitive, they should just come as part of rounding out the portfolio as they are also games people want to play on 4k tvs.

 

[Lalaland]

XSS is ripe for a 5nm mobile version

https://thesiliconreview.com/story_...iconreview-dells-new-ufo-inspired-machine.jpg

Don't hold your breath a die shrink from 7nm - 5nm isn't going to offer the 90%+ power efficiency gains you'd need for this to be a thing even at the outer edges of acceptable battery life

 

[turkey]

Games more aimed at xcloud/mobile aren't they just mobile games that you get from the mobile store already.

Isn't xcloud supposed to be console games on your mobile device (or laptop/tv etc)?

In terms of games that aren't twitch based and less latency sensitive, they should just come as part of rounding out the portfolio as they are also games people want to play on 4k tvs.

Yes they are, but with the model going forward Microsoft I assume are thinking about content specific for gamepass and now Xcloud as they are linked. Which means part of the use case for the title will be that it's going to or is very likely to be played on a mobile also.

The devs can make new UI controls for mobile for the game and my suggestion was design games with this more in mind. This does not fit every game but the more casual puzzle or similar title could easily be made to be more mobile friendly. Text size, quantity of things on screen or other QOL design choices.

Atm it's hardcore games as you need a pad and this makes it less of an impulse mobile game experience.

Deliver meaningful touch controls and the games may take off more via gamepass streaming than on the console.

Xcloud now part of the key offering so I was just theorising that games could be made with it in mind, touch controls designed from inception etc

Forza horizon is great on gamepass, Peggle would be killer on mobile streaming

 

[Deleted member 13524]

Don't hold your breath a die shrink from 7nm - 5nm isn't going to offer the 90%+ power efficiency gains you'd need for this to be a thing even at the outer edges of acceptable battery life

How much is the SeriesS consuming?
With 128bit GDDR6 @14Gbps and a 200mm^2 SoC with a low-clocked and narrow GPU and the same CPU that is going on 25W systems, I don't think they'd need 90%+ power efficiency.
The Zen2 cores with lower L3 @ 3.4GHz are probably consuming ~25W max, and the iGPU probably another 25W max. They'd need to bring that down to half in order to make a Surface-sized handheld with a ~50W.h battery.
A Switch-sized one is probably not possible in the near future, of course.

 

[Lalaland]

How much is the SeriesS consuming?
With 128bit GDDR6 @14Gbps and a 200mm^2 SoC with a low-clocked and narrow GPU and the same CPU that is going on 25W systems, I don't think they'd need 90%+ power efficiency.
The Zen2 cores with lower L3 @ 3.4GHz are probably consuming ~25W max, and the iGPU probably another 25W max. They'd need to bring that down to half in order to make a Surface-sized handheld with a ~50W.h battery.
A Switch-sized one is probably not possible in the near future, of course.

We don't have good numbers on the power supply or active power consumption yet but I would point out that a lot of the power efficiency in mobile parts comes from aggressive power management techniques that will necessarily not be available to a straight Xbox Series S handheld. That product if it ever exists will not be a simple die shrink = mobile part, the power logic and everything else have been designed with a fixed functionally infinite power pool in mind. Even by your own math this 25W system would be looking at 2 hours of battery life? Is such a thing even portable in a useful sense of the word?

It's actually quite challenging to get energy consumption numbers for consoles under load, the best I found is these numbers from Constellation Energy

Annoyingly they screwed up the Switch number, the Anandtech article they cite actually measured 8.9W while undocked and running Zelda: BotW which probably explains why the 16Whr battery in the Switch barely last more than 2 hours (launch models).

 

[Jay]

Yes they are, but with the model going forward Microsoft I assume are thinking about content specific for gamepass and now Xcloud as they are linked. Which means part of the use case for the title will be that it's going to or is very likely to be played on a mobile also.

The devs can make new UI controls for mobile for the game and my suggestion was design games with this more in mind. This does not fit every game but the more casual puzzle or similar title could easily be made to be more mobile friendly. Text size, quantity of things on screen or other QOL design choices.

Atm it's hardcore games as you need a pad and this makes it less of an impulse mobile game experience.

Deliver meaningful touch controls and the games may take off more via gamepass streaming than on the console.

Xcloud now part of the key offering so I was just theorising that games could be made with it in mind, touch controls designed from inception etc

Forza horizon is great on gamepass, Peggle would be killer on mobile streaming

Sounds like your talking about their cloud aware api, it can be added to games, obviously better of if its considered early on.

Can't you already get peggle on mobile?
I'm not saying there isn't a place for that on console, because people do play it on tv also.

 

[AzBat]

Don't hold your breath a die shrink from 7nm - 5nm isn't going to offer the 90%+ power efficiency gains you'd need for this to be a thing even at the outer edges of acceptable battery life

Don't need a big drop in power if they go instead after a different mobile market: gaming laptop

EDIT: A 65 watt laptop would put it in a sweet spot between standard console & Switch.

Tommy McClain

 

[Lalaland]

Don't need a big drop in power if they go instead after a different mobile market: gaming laptop

EDIT: A 65 watt laptop would put it in a sweet spot between standard console & Switch.

Tommy McClain

I guess this runs into my existing disdain for the concept of the gaming notebook, it's either a great notebook with low weight and great battery life and thus bad gaming perf or it weighs 5kg, runs for 60 mins on battery and is good for gaming. Even at that if the power is running at or near 100W under load (which is typical) then there is no way to build a battery pack worth the rest of the effort necessary to make it mobile.

Mobile CPUs have radically different power management settings than standard CPUs with aggressive power throttling that kicks in even under load, MS have been boasting about how their clocks are fixed that is not a solution compatible with being portable. If the power tests come out and it hits 50W I can see somehow cobbling together a frankenbook like the portable PS4 YT maker videos or what have you but as a commercial prodcut, hard to see a path.

 

[AzBat]

See Renoir laptops

I think 144Hz games would be fine on a laptop size screen running 1080p/1440p/

"Perfect is the enemy of good enough"

Tommy McClain

 

[Cyan]

Really smol!

I like the title of the article - The Little Titan

maybe a titan in sales, yeah. Shall probably surpass Series X in sales, combined with gamepass. In countries of South America for instance, at that price, taking into account the HUGE inflation there, and also HUGE taxes....

An uruguayan guy told me the other day that going to the supermarket there with 20€/20$ only allow you to eat for a day :neutral:

 

[Deleted member 11852]

XSS is ripe for a 5nm mobile version

With a free backpack to hold the batteries?

 

[eastmen]

With a free backpack to hold the batteries?

dont' think it would be needed

 

[Deleted member 11852]

dont' think it would be needed

Remind me what the Series S PSU is rated for?

 

[BRiT]

Remind me what the Series S PSU is rated for?

Ultimate Fun!

They just need to spice up the power pack portion to be like Ghostbuster unlicensed nuclear accelerators, or a Clank robot or a Dead Body Package Wrap to appeal to Sony gamers...

 

[eastmen]

Remind me what the Series S PSU is rated for?

Don't worry , I'm more talking about the 4tflop target. New zen processor , navi 3 or 4 , lower powered ram and 5nm @4tflop able to run all series s games at the same resolution and feature settings. Perhaps even a dynamic clock speed like the switch where plugged in at home it runs at 1080p/1440p and on the go it renders at a lower resolution using upscaling

 

[Lalaland]

See Renoir laptops

I think 144Hz games would be fine on a laptop size screen running 1080p/1440p/

"Perfect is the enemy of good enough"

Tommy McClain

But that's my point Renoir mobile CPUs have logic to aggressively downclock at every turn, MS has deliberately changed that behaviour with their console to run locked. You can't just flip the power saving stuff back on (not least because various sensors to support it are probably absent from chunks of the chip) as it will instantly break compatibility with every title. Not to mention the chips in notebooks are not 65W, how would you even evacuate that much heat from a notebook that wasn't a foot thick?

 

[AzBat]

Ultimate Fun!

They just need to spice up the power pack portion to be like Ghostbuster unlicensed nuclear accelerators, or a Clank robot or a Dead Body Package Wrap to appeal to Sony gamers...

I'd buy that for a dollar.

Tommy McClain

 

[AzBat]

But that's my point Renoir mobile CPUs have logic to aggressively downclock at every turn, MS has deliberately changed that behaviour with their console to run locked. You can't just flip the power saving stuff back on (not least because various sensors to support it are probably absent from chunks of the chip) as it will instantly break compatibility with every title. Not to mention the chips in notebooks are not 65W, how would you even evacuate that much heat from a notebook that wasn't a foot thick?

I will leave the tech details you guys, but the idea is that MS is probably done scaling down existing APUs to a smaller process. They will just take the next AMD design and reap the performance & power benefits like @eastmen said & put it in a smaller form factor. I want to see them disrupt the game market with a non-traditional form factor like a laptop. If they can get it down to the 65-watt laptop class then they're not competing with phones or Switch.

Tommy McClain

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Don't worry , I'm more talking about the 4tflop target. New zen processor , navi 3 or 4 , lower powered ram and 5nm @4tflop able to run all series s games at the same resolution and feature settings. Perhaps even a dynamic clock speed like the switch where plugged in at home it runs at 1080p/1440p and on the go it renders at a lower resolution using upscaling

Yeah, no. You can put high performance components into mobiles devices with a big enough battery, like a god laptop, or where the high performance is a rare enough demand not to drain the battery in 90 minutes like a phone. Whilst a long stone's throw from Series X, Series S is nonetheless a high performance device. A base PS4's performance is beyond modern battery tech. Series S hardware in 5nm. No way. Have you seen the foundry costs for 5nm chips? If you've not manufacturing 15-20 million a month, it's not economically viable.

 

[eastmen]

Yeah, no. You can put high performance components into mobiles devices with a big enough battery, like a god laptop, or where the high performance is a rare enough demand not to drain the battery in 90 minutes like a phone. Whilst a long stone's throw from Series X, Series S is nonetheless a high performance device. A base PS4's performance is beyond modern battery tech. Series S hardware in 5nm. No way. Have you seen the foundry costs for 5nm chips? If you've not manufacturing 15-20 million a month, it's not economically viable.

we will see what the future brings