Xbox Series... M?

[Nisaaru]

If you don't want to spend extra for the convivence that is fine. Plenty of people will and even more so in a mobile form factor. I rather pay a price premium and be able to swap out drives in a second on my steam deck than have to go through the process of removing the whole back of the steam deck and other components inside the deck to put a drive in and then repeat if I want access to a second drive . Even 1TB micro sd cards are between $75-150 from reputable brands and are a fraction of the performance.

Aren't you aware of the CFExpress adapters so could use any M.2 2230 NVME drive? MS just locks the drives which makes this impossible unless you use the right WD CH SN530.

 

[eastmen]

Isn't that a tiny niche though? Whereas the cost increase affects all users, including the vast majority who own only one console.

The ideal solution is both, an internal expansion port and an external. If picking one though, the internal is the solution that favours most users.

I don't agree. Most users don't want to open their console to add storage. If they were willing to do that they'd just buy a pc because after all being able add and remove everything inside is better than just being able to add storage right ?

that's a very useful feature, no doubt. Your nephew remember myself a few years ago but I usually brought my original Xbox to a friend's house.

What surprises me is that moving storage devices around is still a thing. I mean, don't his saved files upload to the cloud?

No its full games. He is very much into first person shooters so he has a 1tb cart almost filled with shooters . his father is really into sports games. So the living room xbox series x had a bunch of sports and racers. It's also not just him as all his friends have those cards and bring them over. They can sign into their account and play games they own on the system.

They just redid their basement after flooding and have a big 100 inch tv down there and I grabbed a used xbox series x for $100 that wouldn't turn on. I replaced the power supply and it will now be their basement console for when he has his friends over. so the cart will get even more use.

Aren't you aware of the CFExpress adapters so could use any M.2 2230 NVME drive? MS just locks the drives which makes this impossible unless you use the right WD CH SN530.

Of course but the drives need to maintain certain speeds which is why they lock out certain drives. They don't want someone plugging in something too slow and thus cause issues.

you can buy the adaptor here

Amazon.com

MS also likely doesn't want someone to put in a 2280 or a 22110 into an adapter as the likely hood of it breaking and damaging the port is very high



The drive would drastically stick out over the smaller form factor

 

[Nisaaru]

Th

I don't agree. Most users don't want to open their console to add storage. If they were willing to do that they'd just buy a pc because after all being able add and remove everything inside is better than just being able to add storage right ?


No its full games. He is very much into first person shooters so he has a 1tb cart almost filled with shooters . his father is really into sports games. So the living room xbox series x had a bunch of sports and racers. It's also not just him as all his friends have those cards and bring them over. They can sign into their account and play games they own on the system.

They just redid their basement after flooding and have a big 100 inch tv down there and I grabbed a used xbox series x for $100 that wouldn't turn on. I replaced the power supply and it will now be their basement console for when he has his friends over. so the cart will get even more use.

Of course but the drives need to maintain certain speeds which is why they lock out certain drives. They don't want someone plugging in something too slow and thus cause issues.

you can buy the adaptor here

Amazon.com

MS also likely doesn't want someone to put in a 2280 or a 22110 into an adapter as the likely hood of it breaking and damaging the port is very high

View attachment 11175

The drive would drastically stick out over the smaller form factor

The 2230 drives I checked had >3GB. If MS is concerned about transfer speed they could run a test during initialisation.

But they don't.

 

[eastmen]

Th

The 2230 drives I checked had >3GB. If MS is concerned about transfer speed they could run a test during initialisation.

But they don't.

There are drives that are much slower than that. I have one that is 1.5/1. I use it as a windows installer drive

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I don't agree. Most users don't want to open their console to add storage. If they were willing to do that they'd just buy a pc because after all being able add and remove everything inside is better than just being able to add storage right ?

I think most users don't care either sway, and those that want extra storage are happy with an external USB drive or somesuch. Being okay to open up your PS5 and screw in an SSD isn't going to want to make you use a PC, a completely different system with a completely different way of doing things. One can't look at the number of PS5 users and conclude they don't use expanded PS5 storage because "otherwise they'd be on PC".

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Sorry, but the average console user does NOT want to open their system.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Don't know that anyone can prove that one way or another. However, PS3 had a serviceable HDD drive and a lot of people certainly used it. I'd also argue that the proportion of console users who are okay opening up a consumer-focussed expansion (pop the cover, unscrew a door) vastly outweighs the proportion of console users who want hot-pluggable expansion. It's also somewhat moot as the system could be designed to use longer format 2280 SSDs instead of shorter, just mounted vertically along the length of the case instead of perpendicular. The cover need only be as complex as removing a battery cover (which PS5's expansion is only one step harder than).

For a theoretical XBSM, users would benefit greatly from a trapdoor that takes generic 2230 SSDs over the existing XB carts, giving the users more choice on price, capacity and performance. Except of course if they were to swap with their existing XBSX, but that's an issue with the XBSX choices. Could easily have had an expansion 'cart' where users are free to add/replace the SSD, just like the generic unofficial expansion you can buy now.

 

[eastmen]

Don't know that anyone can prove that one way or another. However, PS3 had a serviceable HDD drive and a lot of people certainly used it. I'd also argue that the proportion of console users who are okay opening up a consumer-focussed expansion (pop the cover, unscrew a door) vastly outweighs the proportion of console users who want hot-pluggable expansion. It's also somewhat moot as the system could be designed to use longer format 2280 SSDs instead of shorter, just mounted vertically along the length of the case instead of perpendicular. The cover need only be as complex as removing a battery cover (which PS5's expansion is only one step harder than).

For a theoretical XBSM, users would benefit greatly from a trapdoor that takes generic 2230 SSDs over the existing XB carts, giving the users more choice on price, capacity and performance. Except of course if they were to swap with their existing XBSX, but that's an issue with the XBSX choices. Could easily have had an expansion 'cart' where users are free to add/replace the SSD, just like the generic unofficial expansion you can buy now.

and compatibility issues will crop up when people choose drives that are not fast enough. Then the system has to be larger to house the expansion bay.

there are pros and cons to every situation.

I would say that having a largely plug and play solution is more popular than having to remove panels and install a piece of hardware and risk damaging the components. the hot swapable feature is just an additional benefit.

I can tell you that I have people who have come to me to add install new hard drives into ps3 and ps4 models. I have never had anyone bother to have me install a 360 drive since its just easily done. i also have people who came to me with ps3 and ps4 systems to clean out the fans and sometimes to repaste the system. The amount of people willing to actually take apart something on their console is the minority. There are stores around me that sell vintage games and do hardware repair. They charge $20 bucks for drive installs on the ps5 and $40 on the ps4/ps3 . Repasting is more money.


Also in terms of a mobile system the solutions for all current mobile windows/steam os devices is having to remove the back cover of the system and in some of them like the steam deck having to remove other components inside to access the removable drive. So in a mobile situation I would 100% perfer the xbox storage solution over the current implementations in those handhelds. Not only that but having it work on my other devices is an added bonus. I can put games on my storage stick that i downloaded on my console and access them on my series m with the cart. Seems like the best of both worlds and wouldn't require me to make multiple downloads of the same content.

I have a 2TB nvme on my steam deck and its 80% filled up plus a 512gig sd card that is filled up.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

there are pros and cons to every situation.

Yes.

I would say that having a largely plug and play solution is more popular than having to remove panels and install a piece of hardware and risk damaging the components.

That's not a realistic risk. Meanwhile, I've yet to hear anyone complain about PS5 not having hot-swappable drives or having an unnerving installation process, whereas plenty of people complain about the pricing for XB's expansions.

I can tell you that I have people who have come to me to add install new hard drives into ps3 and ps4 models. I have never had anyone bother to have me install a 360 drive since its just easily done. i also have people who came to me with ps3 and ps4 systems to clean out the fans and sometimes to repaste the system. The amount of people willing to actually take apart something on their console is the minority.

Which is why Sony made it that much easier.

There are stores around me that sell vintage games and do hardware repair. They charge $20 bucks for drive installs on the ps5 and $40 on the ps4/ps3 . Repasting is more money.

It wasn't that long ago you were talking about how easy it was to upgrade PCs and anyone could do it. Ps5 is pop a cover, unscrew a flap. It's no different to swapping a batter on many devices. People who can't do that will prefer MS's solution, but id they are willing to pay someone twenty bucks to do that for them, they likely have enough cash to not care about the price difference.

Also in terms of a mobile system the solutions for all current mobile windows/steam os devices is having to remove the back cover of the system and in some of them like the steam deck having to remove other components inside to access the removable drive. So in a mobile situation I would 100% perfer the xbox storage solution over the current implementations in those handhelds.

That's a fault of their design. XBSX moves the connector to the outside directly reachable by the user. Nothing stopping that design again, having an SSD slot just like a batter slot with the connector on the edge.

Not only that but having it work on my other devices is an added bonus. I can put games on my storage stick that i downloaded on my console and access them on my series m with the cart.

That is a notable benefit of MS's solution. However, it's only that useful if the XBSM appears using these carts, and they still could have allowed any old SSD in there. The need for minimum performance has already been debunked on PS5, plus that's 'buyer beware' and you can sell official XB branded sticks for those who aren't savvy enough to understand; the kinds of people who pay someone $20 to pop a cover and screw in an SSD...

I have a 2TB nvme on my steam deck and its 80% filled up plus a 512gig sd card that is filled up.

Is that typical though? The ideal solution is ideal for the (vast) majority. What will most XBSM user be wanting?

Now I'll concede that with things as they are, hot-pluggable carts that swap from XBS to XBSM is the best solution. It's still a high price overhead and one the user didn't have to bare; same as Sony using MemoryStick for PSP instead of SD cards. Only worse as it's not even a proprietary format on MS's part but some blocking software on a universal standard. There's absolutely no reason why external carts with any old SSD should work, or allowing users to replace the SSD inside an existing XB expansion cart with any other SSD.

 

[cheapchips]

Meanwhile, I've yet to hear anyone complain about PS5 not having hot-swappable drives or having an unnerving installation process, whereas plenty of people complain about the pricing for XB's expansions.

Anyone who's likely to complain about the PS5 extra drive install is unlike to know that they even expand their storage in the first place.

 

[eastmen]

Yes.

That's not a realistic risk. Meanwhile, I've yet to hear anyone complain about PS5 not having hot-swappable drives or having an unnerving installation process, whereas plenty of people complain about the pricing for XB's expansions.

The only people I hear complain about the price of the drives are on internet forums. Everyone else that I meet in the real world that game on an xbox just own one or don't need one as the internal storage is enough. However I have already installed multiple nvme's into playstation 5s

Which is why Sony made it that much easier.

and people still don't want to do it on their own

It wasn't that long ago you were talking about how easy it was to upgrade PCs and anyone could do it. Ps5 is pop a cover, unscrew a flap. It's no different to swapping a batter on many devices. People who can't do that will prefer MS's solution, but id they are willing to pay someone twenty bucks to do that for them, they likely have enough cash to not care about the price difference.

Yes anyone can do it. but not everyone wants to do it. If people are fine poping off a cover to put in an nvme then why not a graphics card or cpu? Seems silly that ps5 would even still be an option esp since you can only add one additional drive.

That's a fault of their design. XBSX moves the connector to the outside directly reachable by the user. Nothing stopping that design again, having an SSD slot just like a batter slot with the connector on the edge.

That is a notable benefit of MS's solution. However, it's only that useful if the XBSM appears using these carts, and they still could have allowed any old SSD in there. The need for minimum performance has already been debunked on PS5, plus that's 'buyer beware' and you can sell official XB branded sticks for those who aren't savvy enough to understand; the kinds of people who pay someone $20 to pop a cover and screw in an SSD...

The ps5 performance tests show differences in loading with certain games at least according to DF

Is that typical though? The ideal solution is ideal for the (vast) majority. What will most XBSM user be wanting?

Now I'll concede that with things as they are, hot-pluggable carts that swap from XBS to XBSM is the best solution. It's still a high price overhead and one the user didn't have to bare; same as Sony using MemoryStick for PSP instead of SD cards. Only worse as it's not even a proprietary format on MS's part but some blocking software on a universal standard. There's absolutely no reason why external carts with any old SSD should work, or allowing users to replace the SSD inside an existing XB expansion cart with any other SSD.

Sure its typical , games continue to increase in size so it will only be more common as time goes on. GTA 5 is 80 gigs , I expect GTA 6 to be much larger . Isn't the new cod game almost a 125 gigs with the high res textures ?

So if games are close to the 100gig size you will fill up a terabyte really fast. it would only be about 9 games

 

[Cyan]

nothing new but this article has an interesting reflection in the last paragraph.

Xbox Handheld: The Future of Portable Gaming

Microsoft's rumored Xbox handheld console could revolutionize portable gaming.

thegamingwatcher.com

The Steam Deck is the handheld to emulate. If Microsoft is working on a portable Xbox, I don't think the company is using the Nintendo Switch... The Steam Deck has set a high standard for handheld gaming devices with its powerful hardware and PC-like capabilities. If Xbox is indeed developing a handheld console, it will need to match or exceed the features offered by the Steam Deck to attract gamers.

 

[eastmen]

nothing new but this article has an interesting reflection in the last paragraph.

Xbox Handheld: The Future of Portable Gaming

Microsoft's rumored Xbox handheld console could revolutionize portable gaming.

thegamingwatcher.com

The strength of the deck is its endless tinkering. The strength of mobile series s could be that everything in its store just works without tinkering because the developers already did that for the series s.

There are pros and cons to both situations

 

[Sonic]

nothing new but this article has an interesting reflection in the last paragraph.

Xbox Handheld: The Future of Portable Gaming

Microsoft's rumored Xbox handheld console could revolutionize portable gaming.

thegamingwatcher.com

I can't really say I agree with this. MS would have a large advantage with Series S profile games that just work. Throw in game pass on top of that and you have a compelling mobile system. They could still keep it open and have a desktop or Windows mode for all the other apps and for those that want to install their own stuff. It isn't impossible to cater to both those wanting a power user experience and those wanting a console experience.


And I'm sure if MS did all that and had feature parity with Steam Deck the potential for portable Xbox sales are a lot higher than Steam Deck has realized so far.

 

[Cyan]

I can't really say I agree with this. MS would have a large advantage with Series S profile games that just work. Throw in game pass on top of that and you have a compelling mobile system. They could still keep it open and have a desktop or Windows mode for all the other apps and for those that want to install their own stuff. It isn't impossible to cater to both those wanting a power user experience and those wanting a console experience.


And I'm sure if MS did all that and had feature parity with Steam Deck the potential for portable Xbox sales are a lot higher than Steam Deck has realized so far.

that's what we have been discussing til now. Some people I know have a Steam Deck and never ever used a PC to play, they were console junkies, and treat the Steam Deck like a console, which really surprises me, and they love it.

You can have the best of both worlds nowadays, consoles are just computers to game on -which is limiting but ok-, so make it easy for everyone, make them think they are using a console but open it up with the necessary knowledge for more advanced users.

No Windows firewall pop ups nor Windows apps shenanigans sending you to the desktop when you are playing and so on and so forth.

Mobile APUs of the future look so promising.

Alleged Zen 5 'Strix Halo' Mobile APU has more GPU cores than RX 7600 XT or PS5 — features monster RDNA 3.5 GPU with 40 compute units

Alleged Zen 5 'Strix Halo' Mobile APU has more GPU cores than RX 7600 XT or PS5 — features monster RDNA 3.5 GPU with 40 compute units

Strix Point looks to be super potent, assuming this is even remotely accurate information.

www.tomshardware.com

 

[Cyan]

Most likely, MS's contract with Intel will also affect their next console. So they can create the right CPU for the new Xbox.

the OneXFly handheld is more like a traditional pc and has a 8 cores/16 threads CPU that can be boosted to 5.1GHz, and also has a RX 780M GPU with 12RT cores.

I think a future more advanced CPU could emulate a Xbox Series S without much trouble.

As I said, a console is just a computer, for gaming, and as long as you use Windows beneath but make the user feel like they are using a typical console is okay, let power user tinkering 'cos many games can be really really improved.

OneXFly: Most Compact and Powerful 7840U Handheld

Award-Winning Design Elevate your gaming experience as ONEXFLY receives a Special Honourable Mention in the 'Best Gaming Handheld 2023' category. Renowned for its authoritative voice in the gaming industry, PC Gamer recognizes OneXFly for its outstanding performance, design, and innovation. Join...

onexplayerstore.com

 

[Cyan]

Arm laptops are almost ready for prime time, and some new benchmarks with a Snapdragon X processor will have Intel, AMD and even Apple worried

Arm laptops are almost ready for prime time, and some new benchmarks with a Snapdragon X processor will have Intel, AMD and even Apple worried

This Lenovo Yoga Slim Snapdragon Edition looks great.

www.pcgamer.com

 

[Cyan]

this new Manjaro handheld, the Orange Pi which I saw in a thread opened by @eastmen is the typical handheld console when it comes to specs, but it has a few interesting details, specially this:

Dual six-axis precise sensor control
The dual six-axis sensors, comprised of a three-axis gyroscope and a three-axis gravity acceleration sensor, provide precise control tailored for various gaming scenarios. In racing games, the sensors accurately match body steering movements, while in FPS games, they facilitate quick and precise target locking. With the ability to identify subtle movements, these sensors elevate the gaming experience, delivering unparalleled realism and immersion

Dual Intelligent Touchpad
With support for touch points and swipe gestures, simulates a native mouse experience, Experience the convenience of gesture controls as you navigate menus, execute commands, and interact with your game environment with precision and ease. The Dual Intelligent Touchpad simulates a native mouse experience, allowing you to perform intricate movements and actions with the flick of a finger. With the integration of a gyroscope, the Dual Intelligent Touchpad further enhances your gaming experience by providing responsive and immersive motion controls

Electromagnetic Hall Rocker
Introducing the Electromagnetic Hall Rocker, a cutting-edge controller designed to elevate your gaming experience to new heights. Built with precision in mind, this innovative device utilizes permanent magnetic material and electromagnetic linear Hall technology to deliver unparalleled accuracy in positioning. Free off dead zones both in the inner and outer ring, ensuring every movement is detected with pinpoint precision and boasts an impressive super long life and no drift

Orange Pi Neo - AMD Ryzen Gaming Handheld

AMD Ryzen 7 7840U Orange Pi Neo running Manjaro operating system. Linux gaming handheld. Immutable filesystem and a sleek design

neo.manjaro.org

The gyroscope can be seen in action while playing Portal in the video below, at the 2m10s mark --video should start automatically there.

 

[Frenetic Pony]

I can't really say I agree with this. MS would have a large advantage with Series S profile games that just work. Throw in game pass on top of that and you have a compelling mobile system. They could still keep it open and have a desktop or Windows mode for all the other apps and for those that want to install their own stuff. It isn't impossible to cater to both those wanting a power user experience and those wanting a console experience.


And I'm sure if MS did all that and had feature parity with Steam Deck the potential for portable Xbox sales are a lot higher than Steam Deck has realized so far.

I've seen people just asking to buy a mobile Series S. They could do better than that launching next year, which might be able to see the upcoming RDNA5/Zen 6/etc. chiplet SOC available, or early 2026 if it's delayed a little, if people really wanted a "early as possible" kinda launch.

At this point it might well be a straight up good idea, I was surprised neither Sony nor MS understood why the Switch was such a huge success and just ignored it when developing the PS5/Series. It seemed blindingly obvious to me, to Nintendo as well, they were really super cagey trying to keep rumors down before launching the Switch. It was a suprise to Gabe Newell too, I've got emails from him talking about how obvious an idea the Steamdeck was, obviously it's not so obvious to others

The world is moving on from needing better graphics as a major selling point. Back in 2007 Crysis was amazing because you could tell "those are palm trees, that's a tropical ocean, oh wow I can identify stuff!" while Modern Warfare 4 (the same year) had "this grey/brown box is house shaped". Now we're well beyond that, the "amaze" just isn't there.

 

[eastmen]

I've seen people just asking to buy a mobile Series S. They could do better than that launching next year, which might be able to see the upcoming RDNA5/Zen 6/etc. chiplet SOC available, or early 2026 if it's delayed a little, if people really wanted a "early as possible" kinda launch.

At this point it might well be a straight up good idea, I was surprised neither Sony nor MS understood why the Switch was such a huge success and just ignored it when developing the PS5/Series. It seemed blindingly obvious to me, to Nintendo as well, they were really super cagey trying to keep rumors down before launching the Switch. It was a suprise to Gabe Newell too, I've got emails from him talking about how obvious an idea the Steamdeck was, obviously it's not so obvious to others

The world is moving on from needing better graphics as a major selling point. Back in 2007 Crysis was amazing because you could tell "those are palm trees, that's a tropical ocean, oh wow I can identify stuff!" while Modern Warfare 4 (the same year) had "this grey/brown box is house shaped". Now we're well beyond that, the "amaze" just isn't there.

Better graphics can still be a huge selling point. The issue is the zen2/rdna2 consoles weren't enough to make people get wowed. The unreal 5 engine demo and matrix demos wowed people but we are 4 years in and haven't really gotten a game that looks like that. Perhaps hellblade 2 will start to usher that in.