Xbox One Slim

[eastmen]

None of these types of devices (Sony's, Amazon's, Google's) have exactly set the world on fire. I don't anticipate anything being different with Microsoft's. Especially considering every TV sold today has "Smart" functionality.

I can access all streaming media straight from my TV and the layout is pretty, functional, and (fairly) quick. Needing to switch to another HDMI is play basic (?) Windows games on my TV definitely doesn't appeal.

So if all of my streaming media works straight from my TV and if I want to play games, I switch to either my WiiU or my PS4, what does this device offer me that I cannot already do both more easily and probably with much more powerful hardware?

The problem with smart devices is their life span. I have a bluray player by sony which my parents have set up in their kitchen. We used to get hulu on the box and now we don't since Sony stopped supporting it a year ago. We replaced it with an amazon fire stick.

A lot of those smart tvs will get a lot dumber and once people are burnt on them they will want something that they can upgrade outside of the tv eco system.

 

[Deleted member 86764]

I don't understand why you're suggesting this device will be any different to the bluray player you're referring to? Both will, eventually, be fazed out by better hardware.

If this box doesn't offer anything new that I can't already do on my TV/Playstation 4/WiiU/Xbox 360 then what value is it to me?

 

[BadTB25]

I got an NVIDIA Shield TV. Cheap enough to replace if it becomes outdated and not as expensive as a SMART TV. It being an Android box and open source most likely means it'll be supported for a good while with the apps that are important to me.

Right now, it is my primary media player with Kodi, Netflix and Twitch. It does the last 2 as good as my X1. It would my primary means of watching TV if it had an HDMI in and some sort of snap feature. Snap on X1 is brilliant! I love being able to watch Playoff football and a Twitch stream on the same screen. MS just needs to figure out how to mute each screen interdependently.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

As an Android box, you can't be sure it'll get OS updates. Samsung's newly revealed Windows tablet appeals to me in part because it'll get Windows updates for years, unlike my current Sammy Note 10.1 which stopped getting updates with Android 4.

 

[BadTB25]

As an Android box, you can't be sure it'll get OS updates. Samsung's newly revealed Windows tablet appeals to me in part because it'll get Windows updates for years, unlike my current Sammy Note 10.1 which stopped getting updates with Android 4.

Sorry to be OT, but I meant that the apps will continue to work/be updated. Apps on Kitkat still work and I see no reason why they wouldn't work for my current device. I'm OK with the OS not changing on the Shield TV as I don't see it needing an update right now.

Back OT, a slim X1 might appeal to me as long as it remains cool and quiet. My PS3/X360 sounds like a wind tunnel in comparison.

 

[Nisaaru]

I got an NVIDIA Shield TV. Cheap enough to replace if it becomes outdated and not as expensive as a SMART TV. It being an Android box and open source most likely means it'll be supported for a good while with the apps that are important to me.

Right now, it is my primary media player with Kodi, Netflix and Twitch. It does the last 2 as good as my X1. It would my primary means of watching TV if it had an HDMI in and some sort of snap feature. Snap on X1 is brilliant! I love being able to watch Playoff football and a Twitch stream on the same screen. MS just needs to figure out how to mute each screen interdependently.

I got one too. It comes with a Plex license so no stupid fooling around as with the XB1. With DirectPlay it plays smooth and accepts most video files from my Synology Plex Server, no transcoding. For the rest I can use Kodi. A bonus is its full metal remote which comes with an accu. So no stupid batteries.

 

[eastmen]

I don't understand why you're suggesting this device will be any different to the bluray player you're referring to? Both will, eventually, be fazed out by better hardware.

If this box doesn't offer anything new that I can't already do on my TV/Playstation 4/WiiU/Xbox 360 then what value is it to me?

With a tv or a bluray player or what have you , the company isn't making money on Netflix and other options.

With a firestick from amazon , amazon has their amazon prime on it plus their amazon app store. Both will make money for amazon long past the device making them money. So there is more incentive for Amazon to continue support for a longer period of time. Also at $25 bucks its a lot cheaper of an investment than a tv or a bluray player or what have you that has that functionality in it.

 

[Cyan]

No slim, no TV, but Xbox and Windows together, it seems. The US company Microsoft has issued a statement that reports on their plans ahead of the GDC 2016 to be held throughout this year, in March, and they want those plans to be of key importance.
Last year they talked much about the Xbox - Windows ecosystem, this time they want to delve into how they see the future of it.

Windows and Team Xbox talked at GDC in 2015 about how we were building the world's most accessible and powerful game development platform that spans across consoles, PC, tablets, phones, and more. Come join us in 2016 to see how we are delivering on our vision & are empowering game developers to reach billions of customers around the world, connected through the power of Xbox Live and our Universal Store, plus a host of new platform innovations for games in every genre.

http://schedule.gdconf.com/session/...evelopment-for-windows-presented-by-microsoft

 

[eastmen]

I wouldn't expect much until the shrink on the chips happen. MS will have a chance to remessage with a new smaller console on a newer micron process with a bunch of new features and games.

 

[MrFox]

First they would have to do something about the ddr3 preventing a smaller form factor.

The width and depth are caused by the trace length matching requirement (of ddr3) combined with a low cost motherboard with few layers. The height is caused by the heat sink design choices. None of the three dimensions are caused by power consumption or silicon die size.

 

[dobwal]

With a tv or a bluray player or what have you , the company isn't making money on Netflix and other options.

With a firestick from amazon , amazon has their amazon prime on it plus their amazon app store. Both will make money for amazon long past the device making them money. So there is more incentive for Amazon to continue support for a longer period of time. Also at $25 bucks its a lot cheaper of an investment than a tv or a bluray player or what have you that has that functionality in it.

Netflix and others often pay platform owners in some way or another. In the case of apple, its a 15%-30% cut of any sub which was initiated on an apple iOS device. Hulu, sportify and MLB.TV are reportedly paying apple a cut of their subs.

Imagine a device that has dozens of upon dozens of similar deals and is widely popular?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

First they would have to do something about the ddr3 preventing a smaller form factor.

The width and depth are caused by the trace length matching requirement (of ddr3) combined with a low cost motherboard with few layers. The height is caused by the heat sink design choices. None of the three dimensions are caused by power consumption or silicon die size.

There's a lot of things they "could" do but I don't think they "would" do them.

1. Sacrifice a little bit in the noise area. Have a smaller but noisier machine, perhaps equivalent to the PS4 which most gamers find quiet enough. It hasn't brought in the average TV consumer in droves so perhaps it doesn't need to be deadly silent for non-gaming content consumption. I could see this happening.

2. Go full on embracing the Xbox is a PC but limited to console accessability (IE - no desktop, console interface, etc.). They could then provide superior hardware, with a stipulation on developers that any future Xbox games must still have acceptable settings and IQ for the older Xbox One. IE - like a PC with settings for differing levels of performance. Unlike PC, the consumer wouldn't get to choose the various graphics levels. Those would be set by the developer for consistent performance. Highly unlikely, IMO. But it would fit the ideology of the Xbox as a subset (gaming console) of the Windows ecosystem.

3. They could potentially redesign many elements for a fall Xbox. Paid AMD to redesign the SOC for 14 nm Finfet from either Global Foundries or Samsung. Found a way to emulate the characteristics of DDR3 on low performance GDDR5 (perhaps in such a way that it was close enough to offer little to no performance difference between a DDR3 XBO and a GDDR5 XBO. Or use mobile LP DDR3. The Surface Pro 4 in an extremely well engineered product. It has up to 16 GB of memory on a smaller PCB than the XBO. So having 8 GB of DDR memory in a small footprint is certainly doable.

There's no reason they couldn't make a smaller XBO if they wanted to spend the money. But therein lies the problem. How much money do they want to sink into shrinking the current gen XBO? I doubt it would be significant enough to see many of these changes. Unless, of course, it would be leveraged for more things than just the Xbox One. Still, I'm highly doubtful for any of the stuff in [3].

Regards,
SB

 

[eastmen]

Netflix and others often pay platform owners in some way or another. In the case of apple, its a 15%-30% cut of any sub which was initiated on an apple iOS device. Hulu, sportify and MLB.TV are reportedly paying apple a cut of their subs.

Imagine a device that has dozens of upon dozens of similar deals and is widely popular?

apple products are in a different scope than a random bluray producer. I am sure Apple sells more ipads or iphones than all blu ray players are sold in a year.

 

[AlNom]

Found a way to emulate the characteristics of DDR3 on low performance GDDR5 (perhaps in such a way that it was close enough to offer little to no performance difference between a DDR3 XBO and a GDDR5 XBO. Or use mobile LP DDR3.

I'd sooner believe in DDR4.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Netflix and others often pay platform owners in some way or another. In the case of apple, its a 15%-30% cut of any sub which was initiated on an apple iOS device. Hulu, sportify and MLB.TV are reportedly paying apple a cut of their subs.

The model is different for AppleTV, which Apple are treating as a distinct platform. TV content is treated very differently and it really has to be if AppleTV is to be a viable platform for TV content.

 

[Dave Baumann]

I don't think DDR3 is that much of an issue - from a size/shrink perspective. Even when DDR3 was commonplace for GPU's 256b DDR3 was achievable on half lengh (<6.6") or even low profile GPU's. If they are at the limits of the design for the current solution then its likely due to a low layer-count on the PCB, but that can be increased.

 

[function]

Assuming that any latency or timing issues could be overcome:

- ditch hdmi input and video overlay hardware
- ditch kinect port (produce USB 3 powered device if it still matters)
- ditch most of the software you can snap in-game, reduce to 1 GB system reserve (still overkill for skype and friends list)
- cut to 6 GB system memory
- ditch the 8GB flash

So basically cut out stuff that adds cost and takes space while not helping X1 sell from this point on. Combine that with:

- switch to 4 x 1.5GB LPDDR4 @ 4266 mHz, with one (2 x 16 bit) chip per memory channel, giving the 6 GB mentioned earlier

Now only need 128-bit bus instead of 256-bit, and four memory chips instead 16 memory chips ... thereby reducing soc area taken up by IO, board area taken up by memory and traces, power consumption of memory subsystem

Combine that with a 14 nm shrink if you can, and move to a smaller solid aluminium heatsink under an 80 or 92 mm fan instead of the expensive, multi-heatpipe design under a 120 mm fan. Should easily fit a 360S sized console and probably draw less power and generate less heat. Oh, and use an internal PSU (because we aren't in the 1980s).

 

[AlNom]

Assuming that any latency or timing issues could be overcome:

From what I understand, the DDR3 they use has CL14 timings. I'm not really sure what the DDR4 equivalent is supposed to be - DDR4 4266 with CL28 At least they've done some APUs with hybrid support for DDR3/DDR4, so maybe it's a matter of speccing out the DDR4 replacement (sounds expensive right now).

I suppose they'll be fine for the I/O if they go with LPDDR4.

 

[AzBat]

Assuming that any latency or timing issues could be overcome:

- ditch hdmi input and video overlay hardware
- ditch kinect port (produce USB 3 powered device if it still matters)
- ditch most of the software you can snap in-game, reduce to 1 GB system reserve (still overkill for skype and friends list)
- cut to 6 GB system memory
- ditch the 8GB flash

So basically cut out stuff that adds cost and takes space while not helping X1 sell from this point on. Combine that with:

Glad you're not in charge. You basically removed the soul of what makes the XB1 unique.

Tommy McClain

 

[liolio]

3. They could potentially redesign many elements for a fall Xbox. Paid AMD to redesign the SOC for 14 nm Finfet from either Global Foundries or Samsung. Found a way to emulate the characteristics of DDR3 on low performance GDDR5 (perhaps in such a way that it was close enough to offer little to no performance difference between a DDR3 XBO and a GDDR5 XBO. Or use mobile LP DDR3. The Surface Pro 4 in an extremely well engineered product. It has up to 16 GB of memory on a smaller PCB than the XBO. So having 8 GB of DDR memory in a small footprint is certainly doable.

Regards,
SB

That is a lot of work, porting at CPU architecture AMD does not plan to use two nodes ahead from when it was designed, and the same applies to the GPU as AMD may not plan to port GCN to 14/16nm but could be deploying something significantly different as GCN 2.0 on the aforementioned process. I really if it is economically viable and affordable even to MSFT deep pockets.

The real issue (and shame) is if MSFT if after having put all those efforts in virtualizing lots of things, having the console to run some bastardized DirectX 11 -12 and soon DirectX 12, they can't get some significantly different hardware run the same virtual machine or if they can offer an easy way to simply consider the new box games as PC version with fixed set-up. I really hoped MSFT had 'forward compatibitly' built into the XB1 software design.