Xbox One (Durango) Technical hardware investigation

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Yeah from what I remember from the Df architect interview, the scaler in the X1 can even provide automatic upscaling from any resolution to 1080p for every frame even if the native framebuffer is a different res every frame. Im not positive but I think they said it could also be used to simulate a 60 fps refresh on a 30fps title. Sorry if im mistaken but that along with the 3 display planes is pretty impressive.
 
Shifty Geezer said:
XB1 is struggling to get 1080p games.
Click to expand...

With respect, You seem to be misinformed. Game Developers control the resolutions for the stability of their game engines at a smooth frame rate. The maturity of the game engine needs to be factored into this equation, so your use of the term "struggling" seems quite derogatory against the game developers who work VERY hard to provide you with games and is contradictory to the facts at hand. The Xbox One is more than capable of native 4k resolutions (as confirmed by Larry Hryb among others). To be fair, we will see its usefulness after the next couple of years, once the game engines mature and the price of 4k T.Vs has reduced.

Respect to you all.
 
liquidboy said:
"Xbox One's scaler uses an edge-directed scaling algorithm"

http://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/267s0r/polygon_metro_redux_900p_on_xb1/choxm29
Click to expand...
That explains the edge enhancement artifacts. Hopefully it's up to the devs to enable it or not. Or apply it more subtly.

There's only so much that can be done when the data isn't there, specially with rendered stuff that doesn't have a lot of samples per pixel. Filmed content can get a better upscaler, but those tricks don't seem to work well for gaming content.
 
MrFox said:
That explains the edge enhancement artifacts. Hopefully it's up to the devs to enable it or not. Or apply it more subtly.

There's only so much that can be done when the data isn't there, specially with rendered stuff that doesn't have a lot of samples per pixel. Filmed content can get a better upscaler, but those tricks don't seem to work well for gaming content.
Click to expand...

It doesn't enhance/sharpen edges. It preserves the edge. The same way with MSAA, polygon edges are preserved and not enhanced/sharpened. The only thing this does is that instead of relying on triangle data to detect edges, it detects whether there are sharp edges or not. In other words, if the original edge was sharp then it remains sharp after the upscale. If the original edge wasn't sharp, then it still isn't sharp after the upscale. Versus cheaper methods where if the original edge was sharp then it is not sharp after the upscale.

It's why, at least in BF4 the upscaled 720p image from XB1 better resembles a natively rendered image on PC than the PS4 which is upscaled from 900p. At least with regards to those sharp edges.

In theory PS4 could do this as well (similar to Edge AA available for Radeon desktop graphics cards, but more advanced), only they would have to do it in software (it is costly in terms of performance on PC, so would be likewise on console) whereas XB1 has dedicated hardware for it.

Regards,
SB
 
a bit more on scaling for both systems, by Larry Mudd,


"That's a result of scaling. PS4 uses bilinear interpolation scaling, built into the AMD GPU. Xbox One uses edge-directed scaling with its dedicated hardware scaler. So, the Xbox One's scaling algorithm detects sharp edges and extends them across interpolated pixels, while PS4 fills in interpolated pixels with colour values that are averaged from the adjacent pixels. This is why PS4 looks blurrier, even though it's only scaled from 900p, while Xbox One is scaled up from 792p."


http://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/com...watchdogs_xbo_vs_ps4_comparison_video/chq4isq
 
Interesting. I thought both would use the same scalar since they both use the same GPU. PS4 seems to not have as much need for its scalar though, seeing that more games render at native res. Wouldn't be too concerned about 4k upscaling. I suppose this gen will last long enough that 4k will start to have some foothold.

Also, who is this guy and is it legit?
 
Scott_Arm said:
Interesting. I thought both would use the same scalar since they both use the same GPU. PS4 seems to not have as much need for its scalar though, seeing that more games render at native res. Wouldn't be too concerned about 4k upscaling. I suppose this gen will last long enough that 4k will start to have some foothold.

Also, who is this guy and is it legit?
Click to expand...

Hmmm, yeah, I just realized I made my last comment based on just this guys comments on Reddit. Is there another source for that information I wonder? Or is he actually in a position to know? Or is he just some guy on the internet that is taking a guess as to what the XB1 is doing when upscaling? :p

Regards,
SB
 
Has anyone seen Xbox One external HDD vs external SSD vs internal HDD game loading time comparison around the net? It would be great if someone made asset steaming speed comparison in games like Dead Rising 3, BF4 etc.
 
I feel like there's been this influx of people who follow misterx and then rush here to try and fight a console war. The 4k comment and now this HDD question being the latest examples.

They have some new crackpot theory and within a day, we have brand new forum members telling off people or trying to confirm the latest rumor to get traction there.
 
liquidboy said:
a bit more on scaling for both systems, by Larry Mudd,


"That's a result of scaling. PS4 uses bilinear interpolation scaling, built into the AMD GPU.
Click to expand...

Who is Larry Mudd?

Bilinear is a terrible, terrible upscaling method. Can't believe that the PS4 is relying on that.
 
damienw said:
I feel like there's been this influx of people who follow misterx and then rush here to try and fight a console war. The 4k comment and now this HDD question being the latest examples.

They have some new crackpot theory and within a day, we have brand new forum members telling off people or trying to confirm the latest rumor to get traction there.
Click to expand...

What's wrong with the HDD question? Xbox One is getting external storage in the June update. I'm curious to see if SSD will have any impact on load times and streaming as well.
 
function said:
Who is Larry Mudd?

Bilinear is a terrible, terrible upscaling method. Can't believe that the PS4 is relying on that.
Click to expand...

Just seems like some random guy on reddit. Not sure why he's being taken seriously. He talks like he know's what he's saying, but confidence doesn't mean credibility. Anyone know how AMD GCN handles upscale?
 
xbtf said:
With respect, You seem to be misinformed. Game Developers control the resolutions for the stability of their game engines at a smooth frame rate. The maturity of the game engine needs to be factored into this equation, so your use of the term "struggling" seems quite derogatory against the game developers who work VERY hard to provide you with games and is contradictory to the facts at hand. The Xbox One is more than capable of native 4k resolutions (as confirmed by Larry Hryb among others). To be fair, we will see its usefulness after the next couple of years, once the game engines mature and the price of 4k T.Vs has reduced.

Respect to you all.
Click to expand...

I remember Haze being released on the PS3 and that game really struggled with resolution, 1024x576. I seriously doubt this was the intended resolution for the game and it was most probably due to system complexity and capability.

You suggest that the Xbox One is capable of rendering to 4k (which I don't doubt), but any games set to this as a native resolution will have pretty poor graphics compared to something like Battlefield 4 rendering at 1280x720. So while it's fair to say that most resolutions are possible, the likelihood of games being presented at 4k or indeed 1080p is less likely due to system limitations or complexity.
 
Scott_Arm said:
What's wrong with the HDD question? Xbox One is getting external storage in the June update. I'm curious to see if SSD will have any impact on load times and streaming as well.
Click to expand...
http://briandwilliams68.wordpress.c...d-drive-upgrade-alternatives-with-benchmarks/
Someone replaced the internal HDD to an SSD and SSHD, it didn't do much. So the external one can't really be expected to do any better. It looks like both XB1 and PS4 are trying to give consistent Q/A results by capping the HDD bandwidth :cry:
 
I think there was some thread on GAF where somebody tested and claimed the external HDD was loading significantly faster on Xbox One. Not sure the details or why, but that's what newbie guy is referring too.
 
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