Xbox One (Durango) Technical hardware investigation

[BeyondTed]

New Dev Kits

On reddit: "The zebra ones were also earlier devkits. We've gone though several revisions since the original alpha kit (giant server case) and the current one we have looks like the launch version."

http://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/com...xbox_one_uxboxonedev_says_this_was_an/cb951bh

It would be nice if anyone can confirm that this is the final kit.

And further if anyone could confirm it is indeed 12GB with memory on both sides of the board.

 

[DrJay24]

It is probably based on the retail unit like the final 360 dev kit before its RAM upgrade years later. More RAM isn't a necessity, especially if you can run a developer OS version that disables or borrows memory from the the non-gaming part VM.

 

[BeyondTed]

It is probably based on the retail unit like the final 360 dev kit before its RAM upgrade years later. More RAM isn't a necessity, especially if you can run a developer OS version that disables or borrows memory from the the non-gaming part VM.

I was going by the 12GB in the alpha and this:

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1764831&postcount=4796

The xbox one final dev kits have ram on both the front and back of the board.

So I was asking if anyone could confirm that these are those kits with ram on both sides. One side (Wired) is 8GB. I read somewhere that the final dev kits are 12GB, can't find that quickly right now.

 

[Kb-Smoker]

Ms still list xbox one as having 8GB of ram.

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xboxone/what-it-is

Funny it one of the spec they have confirmed.

 

[MrFox]

It is future, production on 6Gb just started.

This is not a 6Gb die, it's three 2Gb chips stacked in an expensive multi-die package, it's also LPDDR3 which is a LOT more expensive than DDR3, and it's low power so it can handle the heat of many stacked dies. The idea is to have all the ram chips inside a single package, because a cellphone is very small, therefore the market demand is worth the development and the extra cost.

I did propose that kind of solution to reach 12GB, put a 4Gb and a 2Gb chip inside the same package (might as well use three 2Gb, too) and address with a chip-select, it's how multi-die DDR3 work: the standard pinout has reserves for more than one CS pin.

But why do that? It's still a weird custom packaging job. If this kind of packaging cost more than the exact same chips sold individually, it doesn't seem to be worth it, it's still 4Gb and 2Gb parts combined.

 

[BeyondTed]

This is not a 6Gb die, it's three 2Gb chips stacked in an expensive multi-die package, it's also LPDDR3 which is a LOT more expensive than DDR3, and it's low power so it can handle the heat of many stacked dies. The idea is to have all the ram chips inside a single package, because a cellphone is very small, therefore the market demand is worth the development and the extra cost.

I did propose that kind of solution to reach 12GB, put a 4Gb and a 2Gb chip inside the same package (might as well use three 2Gb, too) and address with a chip-select, it's how multi-die DDR3 work: the standard pinout has reserves for more than one CS pin.

But why do that? It's still a weird custom packaging job. If this kind of packaging cost more than the exact same chips sold individually, it doesn't seem to be worth it, it's still 4Gb and 2Gb parts combined.

I didn't suggest MS would be going this route. I said it was humorous (the timing) of a 6Gb module availability discussion and then shortly afterward the Samsung 6Gb production start press release. That's all.

 

[must]

Microsoft have just confirmed that all retail units to function as dev kits http://kotaku.com/microsoft-every-xbox-one-can-be-used-to-make-games-898750954
does this mean the xbox one will have 12gb ram after all some have said that current dev unit's have 12gb?

 

[(((interference)))]

Yes, final dev kits have apparently gone out.

 

[bagofsuck]

i don't get it.. if you want to make a game you just have 8GB to work with?( retail console) or did they add 12GB?

 

[zupallinere]

does this mean the xbox one will have 12gb ram after all some have said that current dev unit's have 12gb?

No it means that you can have a device kit with 8gb. At least this should put the 12gb rumors to rest. This policy might indeed be the source of the rumor in the first place

 

[Rangers]

No it means that you can have a device kit with 8gb. At least this should put the 12gb rumors to rest. This policy might indeed be the source of the rumor in the first place

The point was 12GB dev kits would show easy feasibility of 12GB final retail.

Now I thought the very very first (or at least early, likely not first I suppose since originally 4GB RAM was planned) kits with a 7970 were actually PC's with PCI slots and the like, and that's where the early 12GB in dev kits came from. In fact I remember lherre specifically mentioning the 12GB in dev kits long ago.

But if the current, alleged final dev kits Interference is referencing have 12GB, that's a whole different ball game, since it's in essentially retail packaging according to him. It would thus be a small step to 12GB in retail from that.

 

[Kb-Smoker]

Some debate if you really have access to all 8GB or just the 3GB. There are some inseder sugggusting it just the 3GB.

 

[bagofsuck]

No it means that you can have a device kit with 8gb. At least this should put the 12gb rumors to rest. This policy might indeed be the source of the rumor in the first place

hm but remember you have only 5 gigs left..(3gigs reserved for the OS.) and you have to debug with those 5 gigs so it limits whatever you're doing to 2.5 gigs right?

 

[warb]

Some debate if you really have access to all 8GB or just the 3GB. There are some inseder sugggusting it just the 3GB.

Doesn't seem sensible. Would they suggest that indie games are also limited to some of 2 CPU cores and 10% GPU? I don't see so much value in flipping between indie and AAA games, as opposed to apps and games.

 

[Rangers]

i imagine he meant limited to 5gb

 

[Kb-Smoker]

Doesn't seem sensible. Would they suggest that indie games are also limited to some of 2 CPU cores and 10% GPU? I don't see so much value in flipping between indie and AAA games, as opposed to apps and games.

THe only limit i saw was ram.

It could be they treat indie games and apps as the same. Would be smart to use the same system really.

 

[zupallinere]

The point was 12GB dev kits would show easy feasibility of 12GB final retail.

Well think of it this way. An insider knows that there is going to be this ability to turn a retail XB1 into a dev kit and if the dev kit has 12 GB ...? Fill in the last part of the syllogism and you have the rumor of a 12 GB retail product.

Now the 360 dev kits had twice the RAM so a 360 with more memory becomes a relatively easy fit and this is why an alleged 12gb XB1 is possible without much modification as you say. Of course that decision on the 360 was made earlier on in the development process.

 

[zupallinere]

THe only limit i saw was ram.

It could be they treat indie games and apps as the same. Would be smart to use the same system really.

There could be 2 different things. An indie app/game system comes first with maybe something coming along in the future for using the main system for indie games. Nothing is going to happen this year most likely but some more info will come in August.

 

[zupallinere]

hm but remember you have only 5 gigs left..(3gigs reserved for the OS.) and you have to debug with those 5 gigs so it limits whatever you're doing to 2.5 gigs right?

Well first of all we don't know exactly if Indies are going to get access to the Game OS or to the resources afforded to it but if so yeah why not debug the 5 gig Game OS with some subset of the rest of the RAM. The OS is just another VM so reconfigure it.

 

[warb]

THe only limit i saw was ram.

It could be they treat indie games and apps as the same. Would be smart to use the same system really.

Xbox CVP Marc Whitten:

GB: Post-Xbox One launch and when this system is available, is there a reason for people to have proper Xbox One development kits? Is there a significant difference between what the developers get access to in terms of building their games?

Whitten: Our goal is for you to be able to have full access of the system and the services on Xbox Live. Also, this is a dev kit. This is the way that we will think about dev kits for people on my team that are working on Xbox One. There’s no “this is a second class sort of experience” type of thing. Right now, obviously, in the build-up to a platform launch, there’s lots of special builds and lots of special kits and all that kind of stuff, but that’s more time and place.

GB: But this isn’t a situation where, if you just pick up an Xbox One at Target, you’re only going to be able to access certain parts of the memory, certain parts of the graphics processor? This is going to allow you, at least eventually, once it’s all put into place, to be able to do everything that someone like Respawn is doing?

Whitten: That’s right.

It seems that this will be the full X1 devkit experience, eventually.

http://beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1768333&postcount=5486