Xbox One (Durango) Technical hardware investigation

[Scott_Arm]

At some level it doesn't matter what was in the Beta kits, what matters is what they tell devs will be in the final boxes.
It is common for early Beta kits to use early silicon steppings with bugs that result in reduced performance, you certainly inform devs of that and your documentation reflects the expectation of the final hardware.
Final hardware is usually not a surprise to devs when they get it.

Would there really be any impact if they pushed the clocks from 800 MHz to 900 MHz, for example?

Again, I'm not saying this is going to happen. I don't think it's impossible, but I'm expecting the vgleaks information to be correct, because they were almost spot-on with the PS4, except for the memory.

 

[boxerlvr]

i am confused..the GPU is a 7770? or a 7790? :S

Neither, it's based on one of them, which one depends who you want to believe.

Those that think the leaks are right or those that don't believe them.

Personally, there has been too much noise from fans of the xbox at every suggestion of mysterious-ness that I don't believe any of it now.

I'm guessing it's 7770 based as the leaks say. There's no LOGICAL reason why MS would suddenly change their plan because another console looks more powerful on paper as they must've expected that from the start with the route they took.

But isn't the 7790 is a much better match with the leaked Durango specs?

7770 = 640 SP's (10 CU's)
7790 = 768 SP's (12 CU's)
Durango = 768 SP's (12 CU's)

 

[Scott_Arm]

But isn't the 7790 is a much better match with the leaked Durango specs?

7770 = 640 SP's (10 CU's)
7790 = 768 SP's (12 CU's)
Durango = 768 SP's (12 CU's)

Well, there's also the possibility that 7790 is based on Durango, and not the other way around. Either way, it doesn't mean Durango can't be clocked lower.

Edit: And it's a scalable architecture, so I'm not really sure you can say one GPU is based on one vs another, when they're all GCN-based.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Historically, we have had surprise downclocks, so I don't think it unreasonable to have a surprise upclock as long as it was a possibility during development (prototyping as Scott suggests). But that's the difference between finalisation of an open-ended engineering parameter and a knee-jerk reaction to the competition - the latter makes little sense.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Either way, the TDP on the Durango GPU should be somewhere around 80-85 Watts, and I'm possibly overshooting a bit because the TDP I'm basing this on is the TDP of a 1GHZ 7770. With the rumored 800MHZ, what is that, 65-70 perhaps?

Microsoft no doubt likely has their eyes on a price advantage, so whether or not they decide to go for a higher clock than 800MHZ possibly depends on whether or not that increase in clock would somehow cause them to have to change their fan, which I somehow greatly doubt it would. I can't see whatever fan they use not being able to appropriately handle the higher clock speed, or maybe it really won't be able to, I don't know.

 

[Proelite]

650 TI, 12 CUs and 860 MHz clock. It's mainly crippled by the 128-bit bus, which would not be an issue on Durango with the addition of Esram.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

650 TI, 12 CUs and 860 MHz clock. It's mainly crippled by the 128-bit bus, which would not be an issue on Durango with the addition of Esram.

Oh, okay, I see what you're doing now. I was confused at first by the mention of the 650 TI, but I guess what you're saying is that you believe the Durango GPU at 860MHZ would perform very similarly, which is probably not all that far off from the truth, give or take.

 

[dagamer]

One thing I think we missed is that the basic rumors of Sony building a 1.84Tlop machine have existed to the public since at least last summer. If Microsoft truly felt threatened by that, they would have made changes then when they had far more time and silicon wasn't finalized. And I would assume they have better sources than vgleaks leaks.

 

[Averagejoe]

Neither, it's based on one of them, which one depends who you want to believe.

Those that think the leaks are right or those that don't believe them.

Personally, there has been too much noise from fans of the xbox at every suggestion of mysterious-ness that I don't believe any of it now.

I'm guessing it's 7770 based as the leaks say. There's no LOGICAL reason why MS would suddenly change their plan because another console looks more powerful on paper as they must've expected that from the start with the route they took.

Doesn't the 7790 fall more inline with the leak specs of Durango.?

12CU 768SP...

Alto at 800mhz is heavily down clock,the 7790 is 1075mhz.

It even has 102Gb/s bandwidth to much in line with the ESRAM rumored for Durango.

To much casualties..

 

[DrJay24]

Are there any real specs for the 7790? It seems to be rumors with various numbers, even 896SP. It looks like conspiracy theory stuff, where you can pick numbers to match a theory and ignore the rest.

 

[astrograd]

One thing I think we missed is that the basic rumors of Sony building a 1.84Tlop machine have existed to the public since at least last summer. If Microsoft truly felt threatened by that, they would have made changes then when they had far more time and silicon wasn't finalized. And I would assume they have better sources than vgleaks leaks.

I think MS's philosophy was more wrapped around using fixed function solutions to very specific challenges in modern rendering and aiming for unrivaled efficiency in leveraging a design that spreads the workload out in intelligent ways. I have heard no suggestions that MS has ever reacted to what Sony has reportedly done. Only the other way around.

 

[astrograd]

Historically, we have had surprise downclocks, so I don't think it unreasonable to have a surprise upclock as long as it was a possibility during development (prototyping as Scott suggests). But that's the difference between finalisation of an open-ended engineering parameter and a knee-jerk reaction to the competition - the latter makes little sense.

The finalization of that particular engineering parameter can be a response to Sony without it being "knee-jerk". Competitive engineering often includes contingency plans that are triggered by competitor actions, but they are typically thought out well beforehand.

 

[expletive]

Are there any real specs for the 7790? It seems to be rumors with various numbers, even 896SP. It looks like conspiracy theory stuff, where you can pick numbers to match a theory and ignore the rest.

From what i can gather, theres two versions out there, a 768sp version with 12CUs and an 896sp "XT" version with 14CUs.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

And I think their approach is sound. I've always tried to steer clear of the mindset where I'm somehow not happy with what I have simply because of the knowledge that somebody else may have something better.

Microsoft and developers likely need not and won't concern themselves with all that Durango can't do, but simply on the things that it can, and from that simple start point, great games will be produced to leverage those capabilities. Indeed, from the very start we haven't heard any signs that Microsoft were in any way reacting to anything they may have heard about Sony's next console, which means they are pretty confident with the decisions they've made.

The finalization of that particular engineering parameter can be a response to Sony without it being "knee-jerk". Competitive engineering often includes contingency plans that are triggered by competitor actions, but they are typically thought out well beforehand.

Well, yea, this is true. They can indeed react without it being knee jerk, as I doubt Sony's move to 8GB was knee jerk. They likely had it among their plans, maybe hoping they wouldn't have to pull it out of their hat, but they ultimately decided that it was the right decision to make.

 

[boxerlvr]

Are there any real specs for the 7790? It seems to be rumors with various numbers, even 896SP. It looks like conspiracy theory stuff, where you can pick numbers to match a theory and ignore the rest.

We should know by the end of this week.

 

[boxerlvr]

Are there any real specs for the 7790? It seems to be rumors with various numbers, even 896SP. It looks like conspiracy theory stuff, where you can pick numbers to match a theory and ignore the rest.

Maybe 896SP is the correct number. GPU-Z 0.6.9 was just released. The changelog mentions “Fixed shader count on HD 7790″. http://www.techpowerup.com/181634/TechPowerUp-GPU-Z-0.6.9-Released.html

The 768SP number came from GPU-Z 0.6.8 -

 

[Kaotik]

Are there any real specs for the 7790? It seems to be rumors with various numbers, even 896SP. It looks like conspiracy theory stuff, where you can pick numbers to match a theory and ignore the rest.

It's been even benched already, http://www.sweclockers.com/nyhet/16702-radeon-hd-7790-bonaire-i-sweclockers-testlabb
768 SP

edit: or 896 SP then if the above is true (they just say fixed, doesn't say what the actual number is)

 

[astrograd]

Most documents we have seen (all?) say they are targeting 800mhz, I see no reason to believe otherwise, why would they tell developers they are targeting 800mhz GPU clock if they are aiming for higher?.

Yukon was a 1GHz GPU and 2 GHz CPU (with a note in the slide saying clocks are scalable). And I don't think we have info from dev sources confirming 800Hz for the GPU that are known to be up to date. I think DF's dev sources only could confirm to them the specs were valid through May 2012. It would be smart of MS to leave devs in the dark if they were still considering increasing the clocks unless they were certain one way or the other. Better to change things up in a way that leaves devs more breathing room than the alternative.

 

[GrimThorne]

Maybe 896SP is the correct number. GPU-Z 0.6.9 was just released. The changelog mentions “Fixed shader count on HD 7790″. http://www.techpowerup.com/181634/TechPowerUp-GPU-Z-0.6.9-Released.html

The 768SP number came from GPU-Z 0.6.8 -

Anything more than a $150 USD for this and you're paying too much.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Anything more than a $150 USD for this and you're paying too much.

What do you mean? For the GPU alone on the pc, or are you actually referring to this inside of a console?