Xbox Business Update Podcast | Xbox Everywhere Direction Discussion

[iroboto]

Those 48% include PC and this will also be the majority of the revenue. So does that mean PC is crumbling?
Q1 last year was when PS5 supply for the 1st time outstripped demand, because the big semiconductor shortages were largely over which also lead to gpu prices coming down to msrp. Meaning all the people waiting to buy a PS5 or a gpu finally bit.

Gaming should include their GPU gaming division. But consoles should be the bulk of AMD gaming revenue given the volumes they move compared to their market share on PC.

That really means both PS5 and XBSeries have fallen off greatly. It’s understandable. The games that people keep returning to run on last gen consoles. The cost to upgrade is significant, and There is no game today that is next gen only that keeps players to keep coming back. Helldivers and Palword would have been close, except its players base is predominantly PC. Palworld has fallen off a cliff. Hopefully it rebounds later.

 

[eastmen]

Who and why do people buy such devices?

People who like to game on the go.

How are they significant different to phones with some gamepad frame?

Phones have no active cooling and get thermal limited quickly, some will shut down while gaming to prevent damage. It also drastically shortens the battery life of the phone.

It's not like the majority of people care for premium game quality if they play mobile.

It depends on what you mean by premium game quality. There are what a 120m people who own switches that would say the new zelda is a premium game but candy crush isn't.

Why should people carry them around next to their phones?

Because playing games on your phone kills the phone battery very quickly which renders it useless for the phones primary tasks like making calls or using the internet. Also the handhelds have games that are not available on mobile phones

Nintendo's success with the Switch was about Nintendo games. If Nintendo had used a vacuum design their fans would have bought it too because they buy all their shit due NLP in their youth.

The majority of people I know with switches play more than Nintendo games. If people still wanted to play mario kart and mario party what is stoping them from just using a wii ?

People play on phones because of its convenience. Gaming for them is just to waste time.

That is some people but not all

So to me this feels all like a gimmick, a novelty pitch. A mirage like different input designs.

Your questions seem like surface level questions . Why do people own pants when they already have underwear ? Why do some people carry around messenger bags when they have pockets in their pants ? Why do some people carry a pen and pencil ? Why do women need 40 different hand bags.

People use devices in all different ways. I have never owned a phone that would provide a better game experience than a handheld from the same time period. not to mention that most phones don't get


Sure maybe the iphone 15 max at $1100 can run resident evil village at ps4 quality assests with 720p 30fps like they show in the promos but so can my steam deck which was $400

Not only that but it will do it at 60fps and at 1280x800. The steam deck is what 2 years old already ? And again all the time I am playing on my steam deck my phone battery isn't taking a hit.

 

[Nisaaru]

Handheld PCs are about the games too. PCs boast quite a good library! People like more choices in where they play. It's not even about being away from home. With a Deck or a Switch you can lounge around anywhere in the house.


I remain skeptical as to whether portable/convenience market is big enough to make an Xbox portable worthwhile.

So what you're saying people enjoy gaming while taking a dump?

 

[Nisaaru]

People who like to game on the go.


Phones have no active cooling and get thermal limited quickly, some will shut down while gaming to prevent damage. It also drastically shortens the battery life of the phone.

I doubt normal people playing mobile stuff care about these details.

It depends on what you mean by premium game quality. There are what a 120m people who own switches that would say the new zelda is a premium game but candy crush isn't.

As I've said I'm not convinced the majority of people who bought the Switch to play mobile but because of "Nintendo"+"toys for kids"+hype.

Because playing games on your phone kills the phone battery very quickly which renders it useless for the phones primary tasks like making calls or using the internet. Also the handhelds have games that are not available on mobile phones

So they get gaming phones and extra pack batteries or the next generation will fix it.

The majority of people I know with switches play more than Nintendo games. If people still wanted to play mario kart and mario party what is stoping them from just using a wii ?

That is some people but not all


Your questions seem like surface level questions . Why do people own pants when they already have underwear ? Why do some people carry around messenger bags when they have pockets in their pants ? Why do some people carry a pen and pencil ? Why do women need 40 different hand bags.

Well, surface level question for surface level customers which mostly don't care about quality.

I could have also asked why Sony gave up on mobile devices and why would some Xbox M be a "game changer".

People use devices in all different ways. I have never owned a phone that would provide a better game experience than a handheld from the same time period. not to mention that most phones don't get

I'm talking about the potential mass of customers these devices might target and not some enthusiasts.

Sure maybe the iphone 15 max at $1100 can run resident evil village at ps4 quality assests with 720p 30fps like they show in the promos but so can my steam deck which was $400

Not only that but it will do it at 60fps and at 1280x800. The steam deck is what 2 years old already ? And again all the time I am playing on my steam deck my phone battery isn't taking a hit.

You're an enthusiast which apparently wants the best quality.

But I *seriously* doubt that's the market for the mass of people which play mobile.

Actually I thought Cloud gaming was meant for these people or is that suddenly not good enough anymore?

 

[eastmen]

I doubt normal people playing mobile stuff care about these details.

what is a normal person ? There are over a 100m switch buyers. Steam deck keeps selling and other companies are making handhelds.

I guess they are doing it just for the weird people ?

As I've said I'm not convinced the majority of people who bought the Switch to play mobile but because of "Nintendo"+"toys for kids"+hype.

Seems narrow minded. There are a 140m or so switch owners and growing. do they only fit into that category ?

So they get gaming phones and extra pack batteries or the next generation will fix it.

Next gen never fixes it. battery packs only delay the problem and then they will need a new phone from battery degradation even sooner

Well, surface level question for surface level customers which mostly don't care about quality.

I could have also asked why Sony gave up on mobile devices and why would some Xbox M be a "game changer".

Sony had a bunch of failures. Notice nintendo didn't give up on handhelds but gave up consoles .

An Xbox M as we have discussed here isn't its own platform like psp or vita. It would play xbox series games just like the home console. It would be more like a switch but still a bit different in execution.

I'm talking about the potential mass of customers these devices might target and not some enthusiasts.

I think there are a lot of people who would love to play big AAA gaming on the go. For MS the xbox mobile could become a better selling device than the home versions.

You're an enthusiast which apparently wants the best quality.

But I *seriously* doubt that's the market for the mass of people which play mobile.

Actually I thought Cloud gaming was meant for these people or is that suddenly not good enough anymore?

I am an enthusiast. But my nephew's aren't and they all own a steam deck now and all play on those 90% of the time and their switch the rest even with their expensive iphones and ipads. Even my 65 year old uncle now has a steam deck after using mine and he is far from an enthusiast.

Cloud gaming has a bunch of issues. maybe you should go back and look at my posts on it because I don't believe its good enough outside of a few fringe cases. not sure how I am going to stream a game while in a plane or on a boat or train or in a car. I was fishing last weekend on my cousins boat. Not sure how it is else where but here in NJ once you get a quarter of a mile off shore there is no more cell phone connection.

 

[Charlietus]

I think we can imagine how the next Xbox "console" will look like and how would that work. What I think they are doing is a official Xbox platform that OEM can build if they want (pretty much a PC, like the steam machines that valve tried) that boots into the Xbox UI and that has all your Xbox games, from the series consoles to the original Xbox.

But how can you play Xbox games on what is pretty much a PC? I think they are creating a Xbox series emulator for windows, so that you don't lose your purchases. All new games are PC builds of games repackaged for the Xbox store. This way, Xbox can make "the biggest power jump in Xbox history", can maintain BC and doesn't have to subsidize they're console directly.

EXCLUSIVE: Xbox President Sarah Bond has set up a new team dedicated to game preservation and forward compatibility

The backward compatibility program will continue to future Xbox hardware.

www.windowscentral.com

 

[rntongo]

handheld or desktop, the traditional console business model seems to start crumbling.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1785427257449922683

Kind of jumping to conclusions here since its the whole gaming division which includes PC gaming.

I think we can imagine how the next Xbox "console" will look like and how would that work. What I think they are doing is a official Xbox platform that OEM can build if they want (pretty much a PC, like the steam machines that valve tried) that boots into the Xbox UI and that has all your Xbox games, from the series consoles to the original Xbox.

But how can you play Xbox games on what is pretty much a PC? I think they are creating a Xbox series emulator for windows, so that you don't lose your purchases. All new games are PC builds of games repackaged for the Xbox store. This way, Xbox can make "the biggest power jump in Xbox history", can maintain BC and doesn't have to subsidize they're console directly.

EXCLUSIVE: Xbox President Sarah Bond has set up a new team dedicated to game preservation and forward compatibility

The backward compatibility program will continue to future Xbox hardware.

www.windowscentral.com

View attachment 11235

ALSO HERE

AND HERE

Seems Jez Corden all but confirms the OEM strategy. At this point Xbox is just going to be a third party publisher. I can see Valve launching a well done console to fill the void while Sony and Nintendo grow their gaming platforms. If it works out for MS gaming well and good but this is a major boost for Sony, Nintendo and Valve along with their hw and software ecosystems. Having MS games like Forza and Halo on playstation may improve the quality as well since devs will be building on a single playstation first. It sounds crazy but I think it's a win win for everyone except Xbox as we know it may be dead. Supporting software on multiple hw configs isnt going to be easy at all. There will be enormous shift towards Sony for the ease of gaming on playstation as likely the Xbox experience wont be consistent on multiple hw configurations.

 

[Cyan]

I think we can imagine how the next Xbox "console" will look like and how would that work. What I think they are doing is a official Xbox platform that OEM can build if they want (pretty much a PC, like the steam machines that valve tried) that boots into the Xbox UI and that has all your Xbox games, from the series consoles to the original Xbox.

But how can you play Xbox games on what is pretty much a PC? I think they are creating a Xbox series emulator for windows, so that you don't lose your purchases. All new games are PC builds of games repackaged for the Xbox store. This way, Xbox can make "the biggest power jump in Xbox history", can maintain BC and doesn't have to subsidize they're console directly.

EXCLUSIVE: Xbox President Sarah Bond has set up a new team dedicated to game preservation and forward compatibility

The backward compatibility program will continue to future Xbox hardware.

www.windowscentral.com

View attachment 11235

colour me surprised.... This (somewhat) sounds about what I expected, however this means they are leaving the hardware, and I still thought they'd make a super powerful Xbox to keep the core console fans happy and create some guidelines or a lite OS for a hybrid Windows based handheld for PC gaming.

This sounds like MSX -japanese computer which had success in Japan and some success in Europe which ran under an OS from Microsoft-.

Is that insider someone you can trust?

He sounds legit to me, out of logic, but I've never heard of him tbh.

Kind of jumping to conclusions here since its the whole gaming division which includes PC gaming.




ALSO HERE

AND HERE

Seems Jez Corden all but confirms the OEM strategy. At this point Xbox is just going to be a third party publisher. I can see Valve launching a well done console to fill the void while Sony and Nintendo grow their gaming platforms. If it works out for MS gaming well and good but this is a major boost for Sony, Nintendo and Valve along with their hw and software ecosystems. Having MS games like Forza and Halo on playstation may improve the quality as well since devs will be building on a single playstation first. It sounds crazy but I think it's a win win for everyone except Xbox as we know it may be dead. Supporting software on multiple hw configs isnt going to be easy at all. There will be enormous shift towards Sony for the ease of gaming on playstation as likely the Xbox experience wont be consistent on multiple hw configurations.

from your post:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1785755602876006660

Microsoft is slowly building to a future where ‘every screen is an Xbox’

What is a console?

www.theverge.com

 

[rntongo]

colour me surprised.... This (somewhat) sounds about what I expected, however this means they are leaving the hardware, and I still thought they'd make a super powerful Xbox to keep the core console fans happy and create some guidelines or a lite OS for a hybrid Windows based handheld for PC gaming.

This sounds like MSX -japanese computer which had success in Japan and some success in Europe which ran under an OS from Microsoft-.

Is that insider someone you can trust?

He sounds legit to me, out of logic, but I've never heard of him tbh.


from your post:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1785755602876006660

Microsoft is slowly building to a future where ‘every screen is an Xbox’

What is a console?

www.theverge.com

Jez is as Xbox insider as you can get. No matter how terrible things were, his job was always to say things were great, all in the lead up to ending Xbox hw. He doesnt really care about Xbox tbh since he's primarily a PC gamer. I think now its starting to dawn on a lot of people that MS is shifting its business away and killing off the Xbox brand. They're becoming a 3rd party publisher.

 

[Charlietus]

colour me surprised.... This (somewhat) sounds about what I expected, however this means they are leaving the hardware, and I still thought they'd make a super powerful Xbox to keep the core console fans happy and create some guidelines or a lite OS for a hybrid Windows based handheld for PC gaming.

This sounds like MSX -japanese computer which had success in Japan and some success in Europe which ran under an OS from Microsoft-.

Is that insider someone you can trust?

He sounds legit to me, out of logic, but I've never heard of him tbh.


from your post:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1785755602876006660

Microsoft is slowly building to a future where ‘every screen is an Xbox’

What is a console?

www.theverge.com

The discord user in the image said those things in like November of last year, before all the insiders started the rumours. If they got one thing right or two, it would be luck, but they got all of it right beside things that are yet to be confirmed. If he doesn't know anything he won the lottery of predictions.

About Xbox abandoning the hardware, nothing keeps Xbox from doing they're own box similar to the oem's.

 

[QPlayer]

They can manufacture their own CPU on Intel's production line with integrated Xbox software, which other companies can sell as XboxPCs paired with different VGAs. All they have to do is provide the Xbox console interface and services on these PCs.

 

[Cyan]

....

....

just imagine a Xbox Sony VAIO, they would sell in droves, I know many people who would buy it.

Or a nVidia BoXshield 4090.

 

[Nisaaru]

About Xbox abandoning the hardware, nothing keeps Xbox from doing they're own box similar to the oem's.

In that case can't see them producing any custom APU designs at all because that costs a lot of money and requires millions of units to finance.

That will either lead to standard AMD APUs or whatever CPU/GPU they think is adequate. That will obviously mean higher prices too.

 

[QPlayer]

In that case can't see them producing any custom APU designs at all because that costs a lot of money and requires millions of units to finance.

That will either lead to standard AMD APUs or whatever CPU/GPU they think is adequate. That will obviously mean higher prices too.

Yes, this XboxPC will cost consumers more... if you want to play on high or ultra settings. But they can also offer a variant that has rx8600xt VGA as an entry level, say for $600.

Xbox Base, Xbox Premium, Xbox Ultra

They can play with the names.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

They can play with the names.

They can...and they do!

 

[Frenetic Pony]

They can...and they do!

Xbox Quantum
Xbox Classical
Xbox Two Thousand
Xbox Infinity+1
Xbox Your Mom

 

[rntongo]

The discord user in the image said those things in like November of last year, before all the insiders started the rumours. If they got one thing right or two, it would be luck, but they got all of it right beside things that are yet to be confirmed. If he doesn't know anything he won the lottery of predictions.

About Xbox abandoning the hardware, nothing keeps Xbox from doing they're own box similar to the oem's.

Yes you're right. The question though is about developer support. As well consider they have plans of loading other game stores on the same system so what incentive is there to buy that hardware? You're going to have a situation where the single playstation system is the default development kit around which games are designed and fully optimized even more so than now. It will be questionable that the next official Xbox will get the necessary support it needs if even today this hasn't been the case with the segmented model of the S and X. It makes sense that they will make one more hw system as you said but with other OEMs it may end up like the surface line up. Also you could see Valve take up that slot and offer a single home console that runs like say $800 with a single game store and access to you're whole steam library as well as precompiled shaders like on the playstation, so it would have that advantage over the PC. But all this would make the Playstation the number one gaming platform for casual gamers when you consider ease of use and access to popular gaming software. As well it will give MS games a huge opportunity to grow their software revenues by having their titles on multiple platforms including Sony and Nintendo.

 

[Charlietus]

Yes you're right. The question though is about developer support. As well consider they have plans of loading other game stores on the same system so what incentive is there to buy that hardware? You're going to have a situation where the single playstation system is the default development kit around which games are designed and fully optimized even more so than now. It will be questionable that the next official Xbox will get the necessary support it needs if even today this hasn't been the case with the segmented model of the S and X. It makes sense that they will make one more hw system as you said but with other OEMs it may end up like the surface line up. Also you could see Valve take up that slot and offer a single home console that runs like say $800 with a single game store and access to you're whole steam library as well as precompiled shaders like on the playstation, so it would have that advantage over the PC. But all this would make the Playstation the number one gaming platform for casual gamers when you consider ease of use and access to popular gaming software. As well it will give MS games a huge opportunity to grow their software revenues by having their titles on multiple platforms including Sony and Nintendo.

In my prediction those Xbox consoles don't have any custom hardware, they are just running the steam or any other store executable just repackaged for the Xbox store. The developer would just have to take the PC version of they're game and load it to the Xbox store. So if they are making a PC version of the game, Xbox would support it. So playstation being the default sku wouldn't really take away support from this new platform.

The problem in all of this is convincing the other companies to make those Xbox platforms instead of just making gaming PC's and the risk of reducing the Xbox player base further by just not making a classic console. But the recent Xbox sales numbers means that something has to change.

 

[rntongo]

In my prediction those Xbox consoles don't have any custom hardware, they are just running the steam or any other store executable just repackaged for the Xbox store. The developer would just have to take the PC version of they're game and load it to the Xbox store. So if they are making a PC version of the game, Xbox would support it. So playstation being the default sku wouldn't really take away support from this new platform.

The problem in all of this is convincing the other companies to make those Xbox platforms instead of just making gaming PC's and the risk of reducing the Xbox player base further by just not making a classic console. But the recent Xbox sales numbers means that something has to change.

This is all murky. One core distinction between PC and consoles is precompiled shaders otherwise you end up with just another PC. So the licensed Xboxes from OEMs would need to have some sort of custom fixed hw similar to what you see with Steam Deck and consoles otherwise they'd just be PCs because you have to compile the shaders to the specific hw. They'd also have to be much much pricier to differentiate them and make it easier to port games. And all this boils down to developer support really otherwise the experience wont warrant buying the hardware and the accompanying software. In all this I can just see devs building to the PS6 devkit and then making it run on the other platforms, but I dont see devs being made to do extra work to make games meet the same requirements on multiple configurations of Xbox licensed hw. Running a virtualized Xbox OS would also be quite taxing and bring about other related issues when dealing with multiple hw configurations. As you pointed out its much easier to make a PC version of the game and let it run as is and offer as many diy options.

But the recent Xbox sales numbers means that something has to change.

Maybe, just maybe focus should be on the quality of games and then all the platform innovations. Otherwise it seems one certain remedy is to simply make MS a third party publisher with its titles running on multiple platforms. A smooth transition out of the hw business. The idea that they're going to allow Steam on Xbox is proof they are going to eventually just focus on making titles and the whole Xbox thing is going to be niche. In a twisted way this is a smart business move but playstation is going to benefit tremendously from this as well with all the MS games coming to the platform.

 

[Charlietus]

This is all murky. One core distinction between PC and consoles is precompiled shaders otherwise you end up with just another PC. So the licensed Xboxes from OEMs would need to have some sort of custom fixed hw similar to what you see with Steam Deck and consoles otherwise they'd just be PCs because you have to compile the shaders to the specific hw. They'd also have to be much much pricier to differentiate them and make it easier to port games. And all this boils down to developer support really otherwise the experience wont warrant buying the hardware and the accompanying software. In all this I can just see devs building to the PS6 devkit and then making it run on the other platforms, but I dont see devs being made to do extra work to make games meet the same requirements on multiple configurations of Xbox licensed hw. Running a virtualized Xbox OS would also be quite taxing and bring about other related issues when dealing with multiple hw configurations. As you pointed out its much easier to make a PC version of the game and let it run as is and offer as many diy options.


Maybe, just maybe focus should be on the quality of games and then all the platform innovations. Otherwise it seems one certain remedy is to simply make MS a third party publisher with its titles running on multiple platforms. A smooth transition out of the hw business. The idea that they're going to allow Steam on Xbox is proof they are going to eventually just focus on making titles and the whole Xbox thing is going to be niche. In a twisted way this is a smart business move but playstation is going to benefit tremendously from this as well with all the MS games coming to the platform.

Do developers make custom builds and optimizations for steam deck? As far as I know any game just works, but I don't have it so I am not sure.

As far as the viability of this commercially, this would all be a way for Microsoft to stop subsidizing consoles and still get the royalties from games bought on they're store (am I using they're correctly? English is not my first language lol).
It's Microsoft, they got the money to make this successful, but Microsoft is a strange company

(Also, if we get a steam deck like interface for windows that anyone can use I would be very happy)