Actually, with this strategy, they could keep the Xbox brand name, but they could create a much more extended and at the same time risk-free business. MS requires subscriptions. If that's how they get more people to subscribe to their service and so we can get the Xbox experience, then go for it!
Xbox Business Update Podcast | Xbox Everywhere Direction Discussion
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Day 1 launch lineups for any console are rarely very good, but Xbox360 had quite a good one. Kameo, Project Gotham Racing 3, Call of Duty 2, Condemned, Perfect Dark Zero, and Geometry Wars Retro Evolved.
Either way, I think when people talk about the launch, they are talking bigger picture though, so like launch window/first year. And that was absolutely excellent. Along with previously mentioned Day 1 games, there was Elder Scrolls Oblivion, Dead Rising, Gears of War, Prey, Saints Row, Test Drive Unlimited, Viva Pinata and Rainbow Six Vegas.
Some of these would later come to PS3, but for that first year, all these games listed were X360(console) exclusive, and you cannot tell me that's not a great lineup of games.
It absolutely came out the gates swinging.
Yes you're right, the West is not entirely rich but when you said you had 1Mb internet, thats very excellent internet compared to the rest of the world especially at that time. You'd only find such speeds with research facilities and certain NGOs or government offices in Africa for example. It was typical, Europe had very good internet access when the 360 launched as well as the US, I remember quite well how fast the internet was when I visited the UK or Switzerland or example. People didnt have 1Mbps internet in their homes in the developing world at the time, not even close, if they did it was the exception not the norm. 2005-2010 people mainly used wireless dongles. The fastest dongles in those days were around 256Kbps so 32KB/s by 2010 you could find 512Kbps dongles but at the same time 1Mbps packages were marketed that never run faster than the 512Kbps!! This was 2010. In hotels when I'd travel you'd find faster internet in developing countries but between 2005-2010 the vast majority of the world was playing their consoles offline. That only changed when the PS4 and Xbox One launched and it was only in certain parts of the world where high speed internet access had improved like Egypt, Kenya, India. But your experience with the Xbox 360 online features was not a typifying experience for the rest of the world where the other half(at least) of Xbox 360 consoles were. And as I mentioned to you we used to buy electronics from the West on trips and take them back as presents or requests from friends. Millions of console sales categorized as NA or Europe were for families and game cafes in Egypt, Kenya, Brazil, etc. I would say the Xbox 360 was one of the best selling devices globally during this time. Sony had to make so many low cost variants of the PS3 to get close to the 360 sales.
In my house we had landline internet paid for by the govt and it was decent but it wasnt the norm & you couldnt use it for online gaming. It was decent until around 2006 when the dongles started popping up with faster speed of around "125Kbps" which were much slower than advertised still. I remember downloading Pirates of Silicon Valley movie for a month from a bittorrent site using the dongle(something that would have taken a few hours from a relatives house in the UK). It was unlimited and worked quite well(but not for online gaming) but the cost of an unlimited package was prohibitive to a lot of families(again ours was paid for by the govt).
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A big issue with America is how rural it is. I had rich family that had a mansion and a huge amount of land in southern Jersey but the next house was half a mile away and they had dial up and had to switch to a dish that downloaded but had to upload via dial up for many years. They and some others in the community finally paid to have lines ran out to their houses since the cable companies didn't want to invest that money into it for so few houses.
MS would love to refresh the xbox line with AI capabilities and get them out to tens of millions if not over a 100m gamers. It be a wet dream to them for having all that data to locally train their ai for gaming . Taking 30% cuts off others people software sales along with getting a 100% of their own software sales coupled with accessory sales and subscription sales is all just icing on the cake for them.
I am also willing to bet that AMD has a vested interest to get all their AI components in a microsoft device since Qualcomm is already doing so with the surface line up. AMD getting tens of millions if not a 100m xbox out there that support their ai instructions , cores and possibly their rdna redesign that is rumored for rdna 5 out there in the world can be a very big deal for them.
But hey we will see what Ms ultimately does.
It is already an absurd question of self-pride. The market has already turned its back on them and there is no turning back. Microsoft must abandon certain hardware market where it has no future and fully embrace software as the third party that it is.
Xbox sales were 800K in 3 months! Probably the worst ever Xbox sales. The salvation is that MS has money and can afford the agony of continuing to release consoles to sell mostly in the US and maybe Mexico.
Tbh, I worry about MS 'cos I've always been a MS fanboy, not exactly a Xbox fan but I liked my first console a lot, the original Xbox which I got on 2005, and the X360. I can't even count the money I spent on MS stuff and I find it fair to criticise them 'cos they did nothing interesting in the last 19 years.
fair, a typical desktop console might be the way to go for certain people. I just think the issue of closed ecosystems is over. This is going to be like mobile phones, and furthermore, I am not doing analysis or opinions. I'm talking about a fact, about what Microsoft is working on. I don't mind if they release a locked hardware console, it's fine. It's just that this alone won't help them.
The change in strategy occurred internally in September 2023, and now the steps are being taken to announce things.
It has already been announced that there will be new hardware, this is not speculation, this is an official announcement that before the end of the year we will have that new hardware. And it's not an Xbox Pro, it's an Xboy PC, I know it, half the world knows it.
From there we can say whatever nonsense we think, but the reality is that Microsoft is going to be a full third party, and is going to enter the Windows PC hardware market in several ways to enhance that ecosystem
vs. Linux PCs like Steam Deck, which are what they consider to be the main enemies (PC systems that do not use Windows).Office, Windows and the cloud have been the best areas of business for MS, while the Xbox hasn't...
anyways, there are people who want everything to be given to them easily. The market is everyone.
It's not just Shifty, nor eastmen, nor rntongo, nor Johnny, nor me, etc.
They can create a traditional console for people who prefer it, but the point is that (only) locked hardware won't make the cut anymore. That way they can abandon the half-assed effort that is PC gamepass and take the PC seriously, 'cos the services are very good regarding full integration with the consoles, it's just the execution in Windows that fails so miserably.
Microsoft has the OS and the tools to make it easier for them or anyone else to create a set of hardware standards.
It influences the same thing that Google did with its Nexus from the beginning of Android. It is the guide from which the rest of the manufacturers are inspired, and the path that the software company makes the hardware companies follow. In the end, Android doesn't do what Samsumg, Xiaomi, LG, want, they do what Google dictates, and for that they have always used a base hardware that is the path that the rest of the manufacturers to use. And all the other companies' attempts to get out of there have failed, and they have tried (Samsung's Tizen itself).
This way Microsoft can avoid ramifications like the Steam Deck, which is a Linux PC, and Microsoft doesn't like that at all.
Also in this way it sets standards in the hardware that they will then use for their software products in the way that best suits them at all times. They can drive improvements in hardware at a given time, new types of devices or functionalities, etc.
And about the rest, Microsoft is a Third Party, just because it releases a less powerful console does not mean that it has to put all its games there. From now on it will not be the issue of being tied to a generation of consoles. The games will be made based on potential users who will have machines to run them.
It's another concept. They're not selling you a generation. They will be selling you a console hybrid with which you can play some things and not others in the future. The same as the PC, the same as mobile phones. As time goes by there will be games that stop working... well if you want to play it you update the machine or play via streaming...
The potential market, is the world... the niche is that of current consoles.
This business model also allows you to not have to depend on generational changes, they will not care about that. People will update when they feel like it. They are third party, the only thing they want is to promote that ecosystem, and in the process kill the locked consoles.
It's not just Shifty, nor eastmen, nor rntongo, nor Johnny, nor me, etc.
They can create a traditional console for people who prefer it, but the point is that (only) locked hardware won't make the cut anymore. That way they can abandon the half-assed effort that is PC gamepass and take the PC seriously, 'cos the services are very good regarding full integration with the consoles, it's just the execution in Windows that fails so miserably.
Microsoft has the OS and the tools to make it easier for them or anyone else to create a set of hardware standards.
It influences the same thing that Google did with its Nexus from the beginning of Android. It is the guide from which the rest of the manufacturers are inspired, and the path that the software company makes the hardware companies follow. In the end, Android doesn't do what Samsumg, Xiaomi, LG, want, they do what Google dictates, and for that they have always used a base hardware that is the path that the rest of the manufacturers to use. And all the other companies' attempts to get out of there have failed, and they have tried (Samsung's Tizen itself).
This way Microsoft can avoid ramifications like the Steam Deck, which is a Linux PC, and Microsoft doesn't like that at all.
Also in this way it sets standards in the hardware that they will then use for their software products in the way that best suits them at all times. They can drive improvements in hardware at a given time, new types of devices or functionalities, etc.
And about the rest, Microsoft is a Third Party, just because it releases a less powerful console does not mean that it has to put all its games there. From now on it will not be the issue of being tied to a generation of consoles. The games will be made based on potential users who will have machines to run them.
It's another concept. They're not selling you a generation. They will be selling you a console hybrid with which you can play some things and not others in the future. The same as the PC, the same as mobile phones. As time goes by there will be games that stop working... well if you want to play it you update the machine or play via streaming...
The potential market, is the world... the niche is that of current consoles.
This business model also allows you to not have to depend on generational changes, they will not care about that. People will update when they feel like it. They are third party, the only thing they want is to promote that ecosystem, and in the process kill the locked consoles.
I think you need to look more at what MS is doing as a whole to understand why MS is going to shoot another shot at xbox.
First there is the xbox itself . MS makes a 100% of the money for their games released there and also 15-30% for third party companies. They also make a lot of money through accessories. Xbox is an easy way to shift Gamepass/xcloud costs onto the consumer and off of microsoft because they pay for the hardware up front instead of using xcloud servers.
Then there xcloud. Ms wants to attract tv owners , smart phone owners , windows device owners and others to gamepass and they do that through xcloud. MS uses xbox console tech to run xcloud. So the majority of xcloud development costs are shared with the xbox consoles. So as long as they want to offer cloud streaming the xbox kinda comes along with that
Then xbox pc which is a competitor to steam. Ms would love to have this grow well and take sales away from steam or epic on the pc
Then there is game pass proper. This is obviously important to MS and they see it as their way to grow xbox as a whole . They believe that the 3 previous things we discussed are the way to grow it. Sony doesn't want it on the playstation so they can't grow it that way. Nintendo doesn't want it on the switch so they can't grow it that way. If they put it on the apple app store tehy want 30% , same with google play store. So them having their own platforms on which it works natively or stream is a big part for MS.
Like I said Ms needs something disruptive or multiple disruptive items. I certainly think an xbox m that is at least as powerful as the series s (but with rdna 4/5 and zen5) could be a big part of that. But I still think there is a place for MS to have a high end console .
But hey we will have to watch and see what Ms does. Wtf knows with them anymore.
Gamepass is maybe essential in the future of the Xbox. As you mention, they have the Xbox as a way to shift the costs of gamepass and of course to keep a very functional ecosystem.
In fact, they have XSX/XSS supporting gamepass, but they have nothing to support PC gamepass, which still has a lot of room for improvement (as a software...).
Like mentioned before, for people who prefer it, they could release a tradidional locked desktop console, although I don't see a difference in using Windows for that and make the user feel like they are playing on a typical console. I guess that's what XSX is, ultimately, a console with a tailored version of Windows.
The Xbox Series "M" is where things get interesting, imho. That suppossed console could merge console and PC gaming, and in the process improve the way Windows treats gamepads nowadays -the management of non official controllers can get messy-, among other Windows stuff.
It could be the beginning of something many people would like to have from many years ago, a version of Windows made for gaming, they have all the cool tech available in Windows but it isn't plug & play enough yet, specially for handhelds.
I got Castlevania Collection yesterday on Steam, and the game reminded me how PC Gamepass could work on a standarised PC. I know Super Castlevania IV and the other games on the collection have to run on some kind of emulator, yet all of that is abstracted from the player, and you have a very simple menu where you have some settings for the display, a Save for a real-time savegame option, Load, and just a few things, but the game works like a charm and you feel like playing on the SNES instead of a PC, and you also play in a window within Windows.
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I think what a lot of people gloss over is that a windows handheld will simply become a steam handheld. It wont actually gain Ms anything outside of hardware sales. A xbox handheld that runs xbox os will gain them something. Even if they do a custom front end for it where it launches into the xbox app and that is the gui and now traditional windows we all know a few days after the handheld is out people will get steam / epic games/ gog and others all running on it
When you look at the competition in the handheld space you have
1) Switch - this is the 900lb gorilla
2) Steam deck - this is the plucky new comer that will mostly attract those people you talked about above
3) Windows handhelds - this is simply for people who want to run more than steam natively on the system.
For MS and their split console set up a mobile xbox based around mimicking (is that the right spelling ? or even a word lol) their lower end console performance is a great move. It will be a real alternative for the switch or switch 2. It will be able to play all the xbox games from generations ago and each generation they can update it to match the lower end console part way through.
I dunno like I said we have to see what they do. Maybe we will see something in June but I think we might not see anything until the fall and even then it will likely be the same as the xbox one x. It wil lget announced as a teaser at the game award and release in 2025.
I still maintain a zen5/rdna 4 that matches the series s in specs is possible later this year or next year.
Series S is
Zen 2 8 core at 3.4-3.6ghz (with and without smt
RDNA 2 20Cu @1.565 ghz for 4tflops
8gigs of ram/128bit (224GB/s) and 2GB/32 bit buses (56GB/s)
I certainly think this is easily possible at a low wattage in a handheld in 2025. The IPC increase in Zen 4 and more so in zen 5 will help on the cpu side and moving to RDNA4 should allow for much better performance at the same clocks and CU as RDNA 2.
It's really the ram that will be most important. But they can go with a mixture of infinity cache and faster ram or just faster ram.
Like I've said before if a person can go out and buy an xbox series M and play all xbox games on the go and then plug into a tv and play all the games with quality at least as good as the series s it will be really popular.
You can also get people who will go out and buy xbox next to simply play all their games at home at the best quality a console can give and buy a series m for on the go for the same games.
Who and why do people buy such devices?
How are they significant different to phones with some gamepad frame?
It's not like the majority of people care for premium game quality if they play mobile.
Why should people carry them around next to their phones?
Nintendo's success with the Switch was about Nintendo games. If Nintendo had used a vacuum design their fans would have bought it too because they buy all their shit due NLP in their youth.
People play on phones because of its convenience. Gaming for them is just to waste time.
So to me this feels all like a gimmick, a novelty pitch. A mirage like different input designs.
How are they significant different to phones with some gamepad frame?
It's not like the majority of people care for premium game quality if they play mobile.
Why should people carry them around next to their phones?
Nintendo's success with the Switch was about Nintendo games. If Nintendo had used a vacuum design their fans would have bought it too because they buy all their shit due NLP in their youth.
People play on phones because of its convenience. Gaming for them is just to waste time.
So to me this feels all like a gimmick, a novelty pitch. A mirage like different input designs.
cheapchips
Veteran
Handheld PCs are about the games too. PCs boast quite a good library! People like more choices in where they play. It's not even about being away from home. With a Deck or a Switch you can lounge around anywhere in the house.
I remain skeptical as to whether portable/convenience market is big enough to make an Xbox portable worthwhile.
There should be a survey on how many people use the N Switch in mobile mode and how many in docked mode as a desktop console.
cheapchips
Veteran
I assume you're being sarcastic, as that survey exists. That's not quite where my scepticism lies. The question is how much of the market for handheld devices been gobbled up by Nintendo and existing PC handhelds? A handheld selling to existing X|S customers doesn't grow software and subscriptions.
Those 48% include PC and this will also be the majority of the revenue. So does that mean PC is crumbling?
Q1 last year was when PS5 supply for the 1st time outstripped demand, because the big semiconductor shortages were largely over which also lead to gpu prices coming down to msrp. Meaning all the people waiting to buy a PS5 or a gpu finally bit.
Q1 last year was when PS5 supply for the 1st time outstripped demand, because the big semiconductor shortages were largely over which also lead to gpu prices coming down to msrp. Meaning all the people waiting to buy a PS5 or a gpu finally bit.
I would argue that's more to do with demand lowering than anything to do with the so-called 'semiconductor shortages'. But I agree with you otherwise. Finally people could get consoles at their whims, but then once that rush ended, the whole irrational Covid boom was finally dead and combined with greedflation all over and people having less disposable income, they started to evaluate things and realize the new consoles really aren't that must-have at all.
Covid messed so much up in the gaming industry, and set expectations of sales/growth that were never rational and sustainable.
Charlietus
Regular
When I bought a PS4 pro around 2018, I got it on Amazon for 300€. The PS4 was around 200€. Meanwhile the PS5 in more expansive now compared to launch. PS5 was also hit by the semiconductor shortage, while PS4 production was relatively problem free.
That it's trailing the PS4 by just a couple millions (I think?) is pretty incredible.
The switch is still going strong and next year the switch 2 is coming out.
The Xbox on the other hand, that's what I would call crumbling. 1 milion or less in a whole semester? That's Wii u numbers.
So no, console demand isn't crumbling, outside factors have led to slower sales, and Xbox is a whole other story.
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