Xbox 360 to launch in Europe on November 25 at 299 UKP

[rusty]

European Xboxes were manufactured in Hungary. NA Xboxes in Mexico. There'd be import tax in both cases though, I'd assume. I'm not sure if the European tax would be higher, but even if it was..enough to warrant such a gulf in price?

Okay, but as you say both would be subject to import tax and shipping costs really wouldn't be hugely different per console unit. import tax is neither that low for the US, nor that High for the EU, so i'd say an emphatic 'no' to your "enough to warrant such a gulf in price"

(It should be noted that Hungary was outside the EU back when Xbox launched, so yes, there would have been import tax. Hungary is now part of the EU, but I believe that manufacturing was moved to China).

just the hungary operation or the global operations? if all manufacturing has moved to China then there's even less excuse for the price gap.

 

[a688]

you know i mentioned hairy arse kissing a while ago...

well i think Mr Moore better pucker up, because it's going to be kissing time if this is true. It's not that i can't afford to buy the console at 300, but i will not buy it as a matter of principle at a completely ludicrous and extortionate 1GBP to 1USD rate.


I've said it many times, $299 should equal a price of 220-250 GBP at the most... that more than accounts for both VAT and any other costs ($299 + 17.5% VAT equals under 210 GBP so really it should be 220 at most)

not only that, but people really are getting sick of being screwed over - i have many friends who are all for buying a 360 but will change their mind, at least for the time being, if microsoft screw europeans with price again. I am not here to subsidize the american market, i am a valuable customer from a very important consumer base... a consumer base in which sony is currently kicking your arse microsoft - how about you actually try and fight sony rather than help them out.

What about shipping? Also, do all european consoles have the ability to switch between "all" of the languagesin Europe or does the UK only have english?

 

[Titanio]

just the hungary operation or the global operations? if all manufacturing has moved to China then there's even less excuse for the price gap.

I'd heard just the Hungary, but I may be wrong.

Import Tax for videogame systems is not that high - see my post above with calculations including import tax (as of 2001 at least).

If the situation remains the same today, I see little reason why a system could not launch in Europe for €300 if it's $300 in America. Localisation costs per system would be small - if we budgeted €4 per system (which would still allow a €300 price tag), for an initial launch of 500k units, that'd buy them $2m for localisation. I'm sure that'd cover the costs of translating a manual and advertisements. (Game localisation costs would be included in the cost of each game, which is also already higher than the US. I also fail to see how countries like the UK or Ireland should be affected by this however).

 

[London Geezer]

What about shipping? Also, do all european consoles have the ability to switch between "all" of the languagesin Europe or does the UK only have english?

Does it matter?

The languages depend on the software. The games are converted to PAL and sometimes feature more languages than english. It doesn't depend on the console itself.

Again i say (not directly to you), nothing will ever justify the immense difference in price.

 

[scooby_dooby]

i'd be willing to bet money that this analyst is wrong and EU will get a very competitive price for the 360.

in a fight like this you have to use your advantages, MS's advantages are that they have a much cheaper console to produce, also they have much more money so they can afford to not make profits off the hardware, or even take losses.

I think they'll use these obvious advantages, learn from the mistakes, and offer a nicely priced EU and Japanese unit.

 

[London Geezer]

i'd be willing to bet money that this analyst is wrong and EU will get a very competitive price for the 360.

in a fight like this you have to use your advantages, MS's advantages are that they have a much cheaper console to produce, also they have much more money so they can afford to not make profits off the hardware, or even take losses.

I think they'll use these obvious advantages, learn from the mistakes, and offer a nicely priced EU and Japanese unit.

Well every console released in the last few years was released at GBP299 minimum, so i wouldn't be surprised.

In fact, my comments on here are not due to shock or anything, i know that in the end we're gonna get screwed over, it's just that everytime i think about it i get cranky.

 

[Titanio]

What about shipping? Also, do all european consoles have the ability to switch between "all" of the languagesin Europe or does the UK only have english?

The UK/Irish models would not need such an option. But again, only a small increase in cost should cover such localisation. A small amount of that cost could also be spread to NA units (well, Canadian units need French localisation, and I know for example that all NA PSP units are localised to English and French).

Shipping on a mass scale would again, per unit, would not be a large amount. Not enough to justify a ~$170 or more difference (and that's taking sales and import duties into account!) Regardless, it's not like US or Japanese models don't get shipped either.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Well every console released in the last few years was released at GBP299 minimum, so i wouldn't be surprised.

In fact, my comments on here are not due to shock or anything, i know that in the end we're gonna get screwed over, it's just that everytime i think about it i get cranky.

I think it would be a very dumb move on their part, there's to much to be gained to lose it all over a high price-tag. I just have a gut feeling they learned from the mistakes in Japan and Europe, and they will use the low cost design of their console to take as much early market share as possible.

I feel your cynicism, but...here's hopin

 

[rusty]

I'd heard just the Hungary, but I may be wrong.

Import Tax for videogame systems is not that high - see my post above with calculations including import tax (as of 2001 at least).

If the situation remains the same today, I see little reason why a system could not launch in Europe for €300 if it's $300 in America. Localisation costs per system would be small - if we budgeted €4 per system (which would still allow a €300 price tag), for an initial launch of 500k units, that'd buy them $2m for localisation. I'm sure that'd cover the costs of translating a manual and advertisements. (Game localisation costs would be included in the cost of each game, which is also already higher than the US. I also fail to see how countries like the UK or Ireland should be affected by this however).

then we are in complete agreement

 

[a688]

Does it matter?

The languages depend on the software. The games are converted to PAL and sometimes feature more languages than english. It doesn't depend on the console itself.

Again i say (not directly to you), nothing will ever justify the immense difference in price.

It costs $$$$ for good translations and last time I checked there were > 3 major languages in use in Europe. I bet the pal thing screws you guys up too cost wise, just switch your entire power grid(s) over to 60Hz, you know you want to.

 

[London Geezer]

It costs $$$$ for good translations and last time I checked there were > 3 major languages in use in Europe. I bet the pal thing screws you guys up too cost wise, just switch your entire power grid(s) over to 60Hz, you know you want to.

That's the thing, we already get screwed over with the software because PAL conversions need lots of languages - though i'm not sure why the UK is counted in that.

Different languages don't affect the hardware itself though. It's a software conversion issue, not a hardware issue.

 

[lip2lip]

if xbox 360 was just a wee bit more stackable in the suit case, I know what I would be doing this november.

 

[London Geezer]

I think it would be a very dumb move on their part, there's to much to be gained to lose it all over a high price-tag. I just have a gut feeling they learned from the mistakes in Japan and Europe, and they will use the low cost design of their console to take as much early market share as possible.

I feel your cynicism, but...here's hopin

No see you're not really getting the point. It's not a question of whether or not it's going to be GBP299. It is going to be that price, like PS3 will (if not more).

The big news is not that it's going to be GBP299, cause that's actually quite normal, looking at history, everyone here expected as such and would be surprised if it were cheaper.

The scandal here is that it's normal for us UK/Euro gamers to get screwed like that. As i said, we've always been paying for americans' lower prices.

 

[wco81]

Aren't computers from the US and electronics from Japan also more expensive in the EU?

I know with computers, there is localization for the UK (color vs. colour). On the hardware, you would need a different power supply not to mention support for things like SCART, right?

But I believe the biggest costs may be having to maintain local subsidiaries with employees. Employment costs are higher in Europe because there are more regulations and protections which make it more difficult for instance to lay people off. Then again, Japan has many of these same labor issues.

Plus given pricing history, I wouldn't be surprised if they're trying to recoup more margins in Europe, to offset more competitive pricing in the US.

Oh well, you got better wine and cheese. Isn't that some compensation? 8)

 

[Powderkeg]

Or they could manufacture within the EU and sell for ~€300. In fact, I thought MS did manufacture Xbox in Hungary? I believe that manufacturing may have been moved, however.

Yes, the Hungary plant was shut down after the first year.

Even still, that doesn't explain why, for example, japanese console manufacturers, whos consoles are usually manufactured in Japan or China, sell for one price in the US and a much higher one in Europe. And what's import tax on Xboxs like from Mexico to the US (NA Xboxes are manufactured in Mexico)? There's import tax in all these cases, AFAIK. Unless European tax on such goods is a lot higher, but I have my doubts it'd be THAT much higher.

The US doesn't have very high import tariffs at all. Japanese products are very cheap here compared to everywhere else.

And US companies that have manufacturing done in Mexico or Canada do not have to pay import taxes at all. Thanks to NAFTA, these items are duty-free.

But yeah, I would think it'd pay any of the manufacturers to perhaps manufacture in Europe (many Eastern European countries would be cheap for this, and are now part of the EU). Could give them a distinct pricing advantage over companies that import too.

£299/€430 would be more than a 75% increase over a US price of $299. I'd be surprised if sales and import duties accounted for that (especially when the US price is often subject to import duty too - although at a different rate).

As I said, there are also the shipping costs, and the added cost of localization (Which includes different hardware, as well as language issues), and since every European country has it's own tax, in order for MS, Sony, or Nintendo to offer a single price across Europe, they have to charge everyone the price that the most expensive country in Europe would charge.

 

[pc999]

That is too much for a lot of pockets, that way they dont go against PS3, a lot of people will only buy one after PS3 is released, and that is a big danger, and then they may buy a PS3 instead.

Language is not a issue IMO everyone reads english, and besides that all manuals are useless, they can fill a pdf(like) with the manual, that would bring costs down, but once thatt nobody need to read that to play, they should cut that.

As been said euro>dolar enough to cover VAT and so.

I really hope that these is wrong would be bad for them and us.

 

[mesyn191]

I don't know all the details about tax and tarrif laws in Europe but the upshot of all of em is that anything that has parts in it/is made in another country, or is even based outside the country in which the product is being sold is subject to all sorts of convolute taxes and tariffs which account for the high prices of pretty much everything in the EU vs. its counterpart in the US (PC parts are a very good example, pretty much everything electronic too...).

So if you want to get pissed off at someone get pissed off at the people who passed the laws sneaking these taxes and tarrifs as a "protective" measure of local industries...

PC999: As much as the price difference between Xbox360 in US and EU sucks, the PS3 will be even worse buy from this perspective as Sony pulled the same crap at the PS2 launch as MS is pulling now (and did at the Xbox launch too) doing the $1USD=$1GBP conversion rate as its almost garunteed that the PS3 is going to cost more than X360 (upwards of $100 if reports are to be believed...). You and all those people you know going to be willing to pay $399GBP for a PS3? A X360 will look cheap in comparison...

 

[pc999]

The problem is because they are charging more than they need to cover the taxes, as demonstrated early here.

 

[mesyn191]

You guys haven't even scratched the surface of all the tariffs involved man, you can call BS if you like as I don't want to start posting about them as I don't know enough to really talk about em', but really go talk to a EU rep about it, they can get pretty crazy...

Those corporate tax lawyers and clerks do more than just warm chairs you know, they sift through alot of crap just to get something on the shelves...

 

[Farid]

PC999: As much as the price difference between Xbox360 in US and EU sucks, the PS3 will be even worse buy from this perspective as Sony pulled the same crap at the PS2 launch as MS is pulling now (and did at the Xbox launch too) doing the $1USD=$1GBP conversion rate as its almost garunteed that the PS3 is going to cost more than X360 (upwards of $100 if reports are to be believed...). You and all those people you know going to be willing to pay $399GBP for a PS3? A X360 will look cheap in comparison...

Let's keep X360 VS PS3 comparisons out of the thread, please. Especially when the comparisons are made with "Analysts" predictions about prices.

You guys haven't even scratched the surface of all the tariffs involved man, you can call BS if you like as I don't want to start posting about them as I don't know enough to really talk about em'

Thus, you should refrain yourself from talking about it at all. No?

Either you document yourself on the point you trying to make or well, you just point out the fact that "maybe" there are other taxes in supplement of the VAT that could explain such a big difference in the pricing. But here, you do affirm that there's european anti-competitive laws that do favor european companies, even in the videogame sector. If you affirm that you have to either substanciate your claims or emphasize the fact that it was simple speculation on your part.