"Woe is me" says Bill - the gloomy Microsoft doom thread
- Thread starter jimbo75
- Start date
Sorry, I meant S60 third edition.
A lot of the problem is what constitutes a smartphone yes.
But no need to get sidetracked with it. Microsoft doesn't have the kind of clout they used to have with developers, that much is certain. AMD are usually first to move over to the latest DirectX, and if Taylor is saying it probably won't exist we can be pretty sure it doesn't exist right now. At best it's a long way off.
But no need to get sidetracked with it. Microsoft doesn't have the kind of clout they used to have with developers, that much is certain. AMD are usually first to move over to the latest DirectX, and if Taylor is saying it probably won't exist we can be pretty sure it doesn't exist right now. At best it's a long way off.
Yes, we're at that "good enough" stage again, even with phones. The average non-enthusiast person simply doesn't have our kind of cravings for increased image quality.
The current breed of new gamers are a bit like the 80's gamers - there's just an order of magnitude more of them this time.
Microsoft used DirectX as a weapon to keep Linux from gaining traction with the only people that mattered then - the gamers and enthusiasts. It was us that built the industry but we've long since lost it to the smartphone and tablet crowd.
Taylor seems to understand what is happening here - the industry has shifted back to a kind of new era. In this new era, people aren't going to pay more for an OS simply because it has a better graphics API. Not yet - maybe a few years down the road that will be of interest but for now the market is the new market of new gamers who love their little phone and tablet games and don't expect to pay a fortune for the privilege of playing them.
What it basically comes down to is, nobody wants Windows except Microsoft and enthusiast gamers. Sad as fuck yes but the games devs won't shed any tears with less risk and effort and more money coming in.
This not only is nonsense (that has been spewed repeatedly by people for so many years now, first it was Loonix that was going to win the desktop, now it's phablets...meh), it has jacksquat to do with a DX12 wish-list. If people actually care about MS doom and gloom, an adequate thread for that can be opened.
As for Roy Taylor, he has a history of saying things. Think wisely about whose tit you want to suckle at just because the person joined your favourite company. MS does what MS wants, when it wants, how it wants (for good or ill, their recent track record is not the best) and I really would not look at AMD in order to get good info with regards to what MS will do.
You're telling me that Windows capitulating market share has nothing to do with a DX12 wish-list? No wonder you still think desktops are going strong. I guess you are still telling people "phablets" will never catch-on too?
I'm aware that Taylor talks shit more often than not but I find it *extremely* hard to believe that he's just going to come out and say DX12 doesn't exist if it does. And if it does, it's ridiculous to believe that AMD wouldn't be amongst the first to know.
I'm aware that Taylor talks shit more often than not but I find it *extremely* hard to believe that he's just going to come out and say DX12 doesn't exist if it does. And if it does, it's ridiculous to believe that AMD wouldn't be amongst the first to know.
There is a body of evidence pointing to it - i mean come on even Microsoft sent out emails saying that it was "no longer evolving as a technology".
I guess we'll see but I won't be holding my breath put it that way. How long ago was it we were seeing demo's of DirectX11 anyway? 5, 6 years ago? We're not even hearing of rumours about 12 so even if Microsoft is planning it, it must be very far away.
They could be planning on a rebrand of 11 of course, especially if the rumours of them moving to a yearly Windows release are true. I can't help but feel that if they already had something workable they'd be rushing to make it available for Windows 8 so that it might be salvaged.
I guess we'll see but I won't be holding my breath put it that way. How long ago was it we were seeing demo's of DirectX11 anyway? 5, 6 years ago? We're not even hearing of rumours about 12 so even if Microsoft is planning it, it must be very far away.
They could be planning on a rebrand of 11 of course, especially if the rumours of them moving to a yearly Windows release are true. I can't help but feel that if they already had something workable they'd be rushing to make it available for Windows 8 so that it might be salvaged.
Yes. And I'm telling you to cut it out with the inane innuendo and provide some technical insight in what will hopefully constitute a technical discussion about a future API. Technical insight about API design, or features needed to expose the hardware, not what your inner analyst tells you about the future of the computing landscape, the fate of MS or any other such unconnected tripe. I know holistic is a cool word and that, but we're more old school and don't roll by the "everything and kitchen sink approach".
... because it's now a core part of the Windows SDK (didn't they clarify that several times after the initial blowup?).
No one is claiming things have not slowed in recently years with DirectX innovation, but that is at least partially due to a natural slowing in the need for APIs as things become more programmable, let alone the console situation. (OpenGL has not exactly been leaping ahead in the mean time.) None of that is reason for doom and gloom.
OpenGL has been held back by a relative lack of support. Be fair, it's almost a miracle that it's lasted so long. Doesn't it deserve a chance at least?
As far as DX12 being in the Windows SDK, you'll know better than me Andrew. I do however feel that Roy will know better than 99% of the industry and would not have made those comments if this was the case. If not AMD needs to ask him wtf he's doing antagonising one of their biggest partners. Surely this is obvious?
But - as I alluded to before - I wouldn't be all that surprised if Microsoft felt they had to rescue Windows 8 with "DX12" or some rushed rebrand. Vista was a piece of shit but DX11 made it enticing for me later on, and XP was older than the hills so I actually went out and bought Vista against my better judgement...
I just wonder at how much effect that will have these days however - people were jaded with DX9 then and I don't feel that DX11 has reached anywhere near the same level. DX11 with some bells and whistles, rebranded as DX12 is not going to make me buy Windows 8 this time.
As far as DX12 being in the Windows SDK, you'll know better than me Andrew. I do however feel that Roy will know better than 99% of the industry and would not have made those comments if this was the case. If not AMD needs to ask him wtf he's doing antagonising one of their biggest partners. Surely this is obvious?
But - as I alluded to before - I wouldn't be all that surprised if Microsoft felt they had to rescue Windows 8 with "DX12" or some rushed rebrand. Vista was a piece of shit but DX11 made it enticing for me later on, and XP was older than the hills so I actually went out and bought Vista against my better judgement...
I just wonder at how much effect that will have these days however - people were jaded with DX9 then and I don't feel that DX11 has reached anywhere near the same level. DX11 with some bells and whistles, rebranded as DX12 is not going to make me buy Windows 8 this time.
I dont get why people aren't just willing to look at the facts and accept that DX12 is really not very likely. Microsoft emails and now one of AMD's guys have said as much, yet you choose to believe it's some kind of AMD plan to sell more cards instead? Sure it could be, but I'll continue to believe what I believe is the far more likely reason.
What marketing people say before their future product is out is really not worth anything.
Remember nvidia saying that unified shaders are not worth it, under a year before they released 8800..
Would you accept it, if it would be called DX11 Shader Model 6 and not DX12 SM6?
It should be out in 2014, unless there is huge changes on how GPU manufacturers design and advance features in their cards.
Check history of shader model capable cards and you should see a pattern.
Maxwell will be next proper generation with new features which will need upgrade on API.
This was already known when Fermi launched and Kepler was always considered as a 'refresh'.
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One thing I don't get is why Android is so popular. I've met a reasonable number of people with Android phones but very few who are actually fans of them. On the other hand I guess I've also met a lot of people who didn't like Windows and were extremely frustrated but no one exactly switched because Windows 95-ME were famously buggy.
There wasn't really anything viable to switch to.
If it wasn't for gaming I'd have been using Linux years ago - it's simply been DX that has kept me buying Windows. As more and more devs move over to Android, the less likely I am going to pay over $100 for an OS. Microsoft are probably competing more with Windows 7 than anything else regarding gamers though, but that's another problem for them.
If it wasn't for gaming I'd have been using Linux years ago - it's simply been DX that has kept me buying Windows. As more and more devs move over to Android, the less likely I am going to pay over $100 for an OS. Microsoft are probably competing more with Windows 7 than anything else regarding gamers though, but that's another problem for them.
Before there's any point in continuing the discussion in any way related to the supplied graph, there has to be some explanation somewhere how Apple supposedly jumped from 5 to 21% in one year 2 years before iPhone and 5 before iPad.
After that has been clear, we can start wondering if anything else on it has any relation to reality either.
I don't know Kaotik, you've got me on that one. Assume it's an error in the graph.
The important thing is that Microsoft is no longer a 90%+ monopoly on OS, and is infact behind Android and probably also iOS.
136 million units of Android (in smartphones) shipped in Q3 last year alone. That's about half of Microsoft's total shipments of Windows in PC's for the whole of last year. It's real - Android is the dominant OS and it won't be that long before it's running in entry level PC's everywhere, imo.
The point I'm trying to make is that I feel that Android is more likely to take over PC's than Windows is likely to take over in phones. Simply put, it'll be down to price and the fact that most people are comfortable with Android because most people - more people than who have a Windows PC - have an Android phone.
The important thing is that Microsoft is no longer a 90%+ monopoly on OS, and is infact behind Android and probably also iOS.
136 million units of Android (in smartphones) shipped in Q3 last year alone. That's about half of Microsoft's total shipments of Windows in PC's for the whole of last year. It's real - Android is the dominant OS and it won't be that long before it's running in entry level PC's everywhere, imo.
The point I'm trying to make is that I feel that Android is more likely to take over PC's than Windows is likely to take over in phones. Simply put, it'll be down to price and the fact that most people are comfortable with Android because most people - more people than who have a Windows PC - have an Android phone.
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Let's get back to that when Android and/or iOS is on the PC markets, they're not competing from the same markets.
Phone markets don't eat PC markets at all, tablet markets only affect it in small amounts, mainly removing the "minilaptop/netbook" market which was young to begin with.
To quote Andrew,
Phone markets don't eat PC markets at all, tablet markets only affect it in small amounts, mainly removing the "minilaptop/netbook" market which was young to begin with.
To quote Andrew,
On mobile and tablet front, sure. But that still doesn't remove the existing and new PCs even if their sales have dropped a bit - most of the drop if not all is from market saturation and the fact that some 5-6 years old CPU is still more than fine for average home and office use - go back that 5-6 years and using 5-6 years old CPU wouldn't have been OK even for those jobs anymore.