Windows 10 [2014 - 2017]

[orangpelupa]

Hmm my PC hasn't got clean install since XP.

It's still work well. Heck, I still use it to play games from time to time and it also act as 24/7 server for the whole house. Although
- it took very long time to finish boot process (I can make a noodle and it's still hasn't finish booting)
- the C drive is bloated with system junk. Mainly the driver store folder.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Put a clean install on and it'll boot in moments. Seconds if you run off an SSD (and why wouldn't you run off an SSD?!). That's basically why people think their new PC is so much faster than their old one. Processor is maybe 10-20% faster but with a clean OS, it boots quickly. And that was the old Wintel business conspiracy - crap up the OS over time so the machine gets slower and slower and people think they need a new machine.

Not that MS was deliberately crapping up the OS, but the Registry is one of the worst concepts in OS design ever. And it's still around.

 

[Gubbi]

Not that MS was deliberately crapping up the OS, but the Registry is one of the worst concepts in OS design ever. And it's still around.

Both agree and disagree. The registry has a lot of advantages over a ton of ini/cnf files in /etc:
1. Database optimized for read performance. It is a lot faster to read values out of the registry than parsing an ini file.
2. The registry supports transactions, configuration files on Unix relies on filesystem semantics; You can make atomic updates to a single file. In the registry you can perform lot of changes for multiple systems in a single transaction (this is also an performance advantage).
3. Versioning/backup. Managing configuration of an entire system is a lot easier with a single registry than a ton of files in a directory.

The problems with the registry has almost all to do with how it is used. On an old system a lot of stale entries accumulates because the registry isn't cleaned properly when things are removed. You end up with DLLs being registered even though they are never used, scheduler entries still trying to perform tasks (that fail and then retry), etc.

Accumulating gunk is not specific to Windows. I'm typing this on an Ubuntu 14.04LTS, dist-upgraded from 12.04LTS, dist-upgraded from a 10.04LTS. It is a lot slower starting up than the clean install 14.04LTS I run at home (Both with SSDs).

Cheers

 

[Rodéric]

A central unique DB for all settings (OS & apps) sounds nice on paper, but isn't that appealing because of performance/memory cost over time.
It's best to have one DB for the OS, then one per app, provides same service, reduce cost, actually gets deleted when the app is uninstalled instead of having an ever growing central DB...

And yes we are still at the stone age when it comes to computers.

 

[Gubbi]

A central unique DB for all settings (OS & apps) sounds nice on paper, but isn't that appealing because of performance/memory cost over time.

The registry present a single image to the system, but is really built from multiple hive files. Hive files are memory mapped, you only pay a memory and performance penalty for the parts you use. To get to a record in a Unix conf file, you need to read the entire file, parse it, the read the value. If you want to modify a record, you need to read the entire file, modify the one record, then write it again. It is a lot slower.

It's best to have one DB for the OS, then one per app, provides same service, reduce cost, actually gets deleted when the app is uninstalled instead of having an ever growing central DB...

Now we're back to use. On Unix you have to remove the configuration files, remove the crontab entries, remove the logrotate.d entries, remove app-armor defs etc... The work cleaning up is fundamentally the same.

The single biggest issue I have with the registry is that of documentation. Unix configuration files often contains verbose comments documenting the settings that can be altered. In the registry you need to know what you are doing

Cheers

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Unix isn't the only other possible option. A per-application database (not flat text- or binary-based .ini file) gives the functionality of the Registry without the overhead or accumulated crap. And it's all very well saying people don't use it right, but that's inevitable. You can't design a system to be used by humans that falls apart if not used 100% according to design (unless you police it, like Apple), because people cannot be relied to use it that way. So the system has to be robust enough to work with how people are going to use it. Break it down into per application files and worst case, one application (or family, such as an Adobe database) gets messed up with un/re/installs.

I'd like to see an application Registry file in the root folder of any application where one is needed that keeps it all self contained. The only meaningful use of a system wide Registry for me is if it keeps track of changes and updates all references automatically, which isn't what happens. Move or delete a file without using a tool that updates the Registry accordingly and all those references break which kinda defeats the point.

 

[Albuquerque]

Microsoft can already separate OS versus application registry storage, but only in cases where the application is stored in a per-user method. If you install an application with "all users" scope (Do you wish to install this application for yourself, or for all users of the PC?) the registry items are installed at the HKLM\Software hive. However, if you install on a per-user basis, it writes to a virtualized version of the HKLM\Software hive which is actually stored within your personal HKCU hive. A somewhat similar thing also now happens with DLL's; old apps would dump their shite-ancient version of some core DLL into your System32 directory and jack up half the machine. Modern file virtualization drops them into the WinSXS (side-by-side) system and Windows helps the app sort out which one they need to operate.

All of this started in Vista as a compatibility thing which was intended to die, but turns out it makes a lot of things more stable in the OS and has thusly been kept:

http://www.thewindowsclub.com/file-registry-virtualization-in-windows-7

I'm not a fan of building a single database for every single application -- what, I need a whole new registry DB for Notepad++? Then I need a new registry DB for Calculator? And a new one for my Chess app? For Steam? For the stupid EA digital software portal thing whatever it's called? And then for each game I install within Steam? How does this work for UWP? Actually, I think UWP does solve this in some other way but now can't remember.

Yeah, maybe we hand-wave off some of the complexity by saying we will "glob them together by category." What becomes the common denominator? Manufacturer? Well, Microsoft is going to dick you there. By work type? How do you categorize all the apps on this planet?

And honestly, this completely ignores the eighty brazillion extant x86 Wintel apps already on the planet which are compatible with and could/would/will be installed on Windows 10. If you allow those dirtbags a backwards way of still working, then NEW dirtbags will just continue being dirtbags and relying on the wrong, old crap way too.

I'm on board for the app separation vs OS, and Microsoft is already helping us out there.

 

[Scott_Arm]

Does UWP totally change how the registry works to solve a lot of those old issues?

 

[Albuquerque]

I'm not versed in universal windows program architecture, but a quick google confirms my assumptions: Uwp has no access to system registry, and the container itself virtualizes the current user software registry.

Basically the same behavior as WinVista and later for single-user app behavior.

 

[Rurouni]

My front panel usb3 hub (connected to mainboard usb3 header) is not working after the big Windows 10 update.
I don't really know what is the hub chipset, but the mainboard usb3 is AMD.
Why MS... why....
Edit: I see a bunch of USB provided MS drivers dated July 15th, 2016. Of course I can't roll back the driver. I can still roll back the Windows tho...

 

[orangpelupa]

hmm my PC cant update to 10.5 due to low disk space. Now cleaned some space and it refuse to update to 10.5 because there is ONE new windows 10 update that need to be installed before 10.5.

werid.

 

[Grall]

How do I block the anniversary update? I don't want that shit on my PC(s). I've checked the windows update utility and there's like NO options there anymore like there used to be to ignore certain updates.

Fuck microsoft.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Is it still live? I've read about Surface Pro 4's getting killed by it, and it subsequently being pulled. My SP4 hasn't been updated.

 

[swaaye]

It amazes me that they basically reinstall Windows from scratch and migrate data for this update and the previous major update. It seems to work pretty well though.

I like the Edge updates. It's quite a usable browser now.

I didn't have any trouble using Windows Update with my S4P.

 

[Grall]

I like the Edge updates. It's quite a usable browser now.

Not without a block-HTML5-autoplaying-video plugin it isn't, although maybe one has been made available by now, I dunno.

Way too many pages abuse autoplay - a thing of the devil that shit is!

 

[Blazkowicz]

And it's not porn sites, shady sites and link farms that abuse your bandwith and patience with such videos, it's the most major news sites instead

I would be content with an add-on that blocks news video while letting hour-long medical scams and option trading scams through.

 

[orangpelupa]

Hmm I didn't notice any different with edge. It's still really slow to load new tab when disk is busy. Still lightweight.

 

[BRiT]

Hmm I didn't notice any different with edge. It's still really slow to load new tab when disk is busy.

That's because your hard drives are dying.

Upgrade to this century by replacing all spinners with SSD.

 

[orangpelupa]

That's because your hard drives are dying.

Upgrade to this century by replacing all spinners with SSD.

That's on my tablet with Samsung ssd.

On my pc with dying hdd it's still working fine

 

[hoom]

So I'm back online with a fresh Win10 install after my mobo died
Some troubles with getting it to actually install due to change from old style BIOS AMD mobo to UEFI Intel but eventually got it going (thank the stars for the USB recovery thing, I have no DVD drive now since no PATA) & successfully Activated with my Win7 key.
For some reason Windows Update won't let me get the August update?

So much settings to re-find & set, many programs needing reinstall, funtimes for weeks...