sonycowboy
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Powderkeg said:
Given that they are a founding member of HD-DVD, you've got to admit that it's a HUGE concession to support Blu-Ray.
Will Warner support Blu-ray?
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Given that they are a founding member of HD-DVD, you've got to admit that it's a HUGE concession to support Blu-Ray.
mckmas8808
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sonycowboy said:
It's good to see you on this side of town Sonycowboy. Welcome Back!!!
And yes you are completly right with the adoption rate of the DVD. Some people here still don't understand the foundation of the adoption rate of the DVD media yet . Thanks for trying to teach them, but some are just to far to be saved.
You had about 2 to 3 years before DVDs became mainstream, yet some people here want to cry about a possible 3 to 4 year adoption rate of High Definition movies. I think had DVDs had something like the PS2 in 1998 at $300 the adoption rate of DVDs would have been much much faster. Anybody want to talk on that?
Would that kinda be like Panasonic or Matsuthia (whatever their other name is) developing HD-DVD players?
Basically from what I see most people agree that with the recent announcements it certainly seems like BD has the advantage in terms of next gen disc formats now. However, there seems to be a couple people who will argue with the same arguments over and over again basically saying that we don't know who will win, which is true, but also refusing to admit that things look better for BD than HD-DVD at the moment.
scooby_dooby
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Actually I haven't seen a single person claim BD does not have the current momentum, or is not more likely to come out on top.
Maybe you can point me to those posts?
It's a given fact that BR is gaining momentum, and gaining support, however there are still a number of scenarios that could play out. By no means is BR a "sure thing" like some Sony die-hards want so dearly to believe.
Maybe you can point me to those posts?
It's a given fact that BR is gaining momentum, and gaining support, however there are still a number of scenarios that could play out. By no means is BR a "sure thing" like some Sony die-hards want so dearly to believe.
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mckmas8808 said:
DVD adoption over VHS was extremely fast because the advantage over the older VHS format was huge, clearly visible, and available on every single TV set.
VHS tapes wear out. DVD's don't.
DVD's take up less room.
DVD's are as cheap or cheaper than VHS
DVD's offered higher resolution, sharper colors, and a clearer picture than VHS. On every television made.
With HD-DVD/Bluray it's different. The only advantage is in higher resolution, and maybe barely perceptible better sound on most stereos, and you'll only get the better resolution if you own an HDTV, and only notice the better sound if you are an audiophile with a high dollar stereo.
The incentive to upgrade from VHS to DVD is extremely obvious. Most people have no reason at all to want to upgrade from DVD yet. You'll have to wait until HDTV is mainstream before high definition video will be mainstream, and that won't happen until you can get an HDTV for under $300, the price that most new televisions are sold at.
avaya said:
And that's supposed to be the main selling point that's going to get millions of people to switch over? That they can save a couple of inches of shelf space if they buy DVD's of syndicated television shows?
I won't even bother pointing out that some people actually want a "boxed set" and not everything on a single disk.
The single biggest reason DVD had over VHS was random access: no rewinding/fast forwarding. All other improvements are secondary. Picture quality was not relevant for most consumers, otherwise, they would have bought Beta or SVHS. At the time of DVD, most consumers were not willing to pay a premium for image quality. An even better example is the number of people worldwide willing to tolerate VCD.
DVD lacked recordability, and a significant number of people were using VHS for time-shifting before the advent of Tivo/PVRs. So DVDs became the medium of watching rented movies (no rewind), and VHS became the medium of time shifting (until PVRs)
DVD adoption wasn't all that fast. It wasn't really until the Matrix DVD came out that DVD became a killer in the mainstream perception, a "must have"
HD-DVD is dead. It's amazing that the hold outs don't realize it. It will become all the more apparent once you see how BR recorders are use by time shifters. The dual use for HQ movie playback and time shifting, plus linkage to PS3 in the public mind will be the death knell.
DVD lacked recordability, and a significant number of people were using VHS for time-shifting before the advent of Tivo/PVRs. So DVDs became the medium of watching rented movies (no rewind), and VHS became the medium of time shifting (until PVRs)
DVD adoption wasn't all that fast. It wasn't really until the Matrix DVD came out that DVD became a killer in the mainstream perception, a "must have"
HD-DVD is dead. It's amazing that the hold outs don't realize it. It will become all the more apparent once you see how BR recorders are use by time shifters. The dual use for HQ movie playback and time shifting, plus linkage to PS3 in the public mind will be the death knell.
Powderkeg said:
No. Your rubbishing the idea that people will not buy the HD media and I raised another advantage it has.
When people buy HDTV's and realise that the TV channels look better than their DVD movies they'll buy the HD versions of films instead of DVDs. It's not that hard to see.
HD optical media sales are likely cointegrated with HDTV sales. I feel like I'm stating the obvious here.
Powderkeg said:
Most people don't. I own several hundred DVDs now, and shelf space is a premium. Boxed sets take up ENORMOUS shelf space, especially shows like Seinfeld, Star Trek (all series), etc. So much spare is taken that I have now built a multi-terabyte RAID array in my home and in the process of ripping everything to a network file server.
avaya said:
Yes, I've said as much. You won't get mainstream HD optical media until you have a mainstream HDTV userbase. Most televisions sold today are 27" in screen size and in the under-$300 price range, so before HDTV will become mainstream, you'll have to have HDTV's in the same size and price range.
Once that happens, then you have to wait a couple of years as people gradually get rid of their old normal TV's and switch over to HDTV. You'll need at least 50% of the total market (Not just new sets sold, but on all sets owned) on HDTV, then, and only then can you begin talking about which HD video formatwill become the standard.
But be careful, some other format may come along between now and then and render both HD-DVD and Bluray obsolete.
DemoCoder said:
Multi terabyte RAID?? Wow, that's how I imagine the future to be!
OT: The crucial thing that HD-DVD did have is an earlier release but that's now been put back (I don't know by how much exactly). But there are so many variables at play, esp public awareness of what's around the corner. As Powderkeg sort of said unless there's a compelling reason to upgrade from DVD to BR the uptake is gonna be slower than some people might think. But I guess the same applies for HD-DVD too in that case.
I don't have a huge collection of DVD's - couple of boxsets of The Shield spring to mind - and I don't have a HDTV either. But once I get a PS3 any future purchases will be on BR media (cost permitting of course). I think those PS3 owners may drive BR for the time until HDTV becomes more widespread.
Oh, one more thing: too early to be declaring any victors methinks.
The noises from Toshiba recently don't make me think they've got the belly/mindset for the fight though (fingers crossed, I'm still hoping for format unification!).
EDIT: Beaten to some of those points by Powderkeg
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Powderkeg said:
Having a fragmented HD optical media market only exacerbates the problem of getting HDTV mainstream.
The NEC news is big and correlates well with the reports that Sanyo had secretly joined the BDA back in the summer.
I honestly don’t think HD-DVD is going to make it to the marketplace.
slider said:
If you have a huge collection, and not enough shelf space to store it, and you want to view the movies in every room of the house, it's the only way to go. Simply put, the largest DVD changers can't hold all my disks, and those players are too annoying for other people in the house to get the disc out of and take to their room.
I use the RAID for other purposes (it's the family file server, it holds huge amounts of MiniDV camcorder video, digi-cam pics, documents, shared software, etc)
My point is, a few boxed sets take up more much space than a single DVD case, or a disc. Put a few TV series, plus LOTR Trilogy, Matrix, Godfather, Star Wars, Indy, etc and you've already wasted 2 shelves in most entertainment center furniture.
Given HDTV adoption rates, it's clear HD optical media will be adopted. If people are willing to pay a premium (>$2000) for HDTVs, they will be willing to pay a much smaller premium for BD, especially since their HDTVs are not reaching their full potential without HD optical. HDTV sales are growing exponentially year over year.
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