Will Warner support Blu-ray part 2 ?

lol. great comparison! Look at that, disc sizes grew 13x's in just 5 years! YEah..not quite.

Even on PS1 many games were multiple CD's, we can both cherry pick examples all day long but it doesn't prove anything.

If you want to prove something, find us the AVERAGE disc size in 2000, and the AVERAGE disc size in 2005, otherwise you're just pickin 2 arbitrary #'s to suit the point you're trying to make. All that shows, is that the comrpession on PS2 was so terrible, that the game ended up being 9GB.

Forza is actually more detailed, with a more involved AI & Damage modelling, better backgrounds, 3d wheels etc etc, and was < 3 GB. The car and Track models do not take up alot of room, so that does not work as an excuse as to why GT4 was bigger, and I can give you exact sized on these models when I get home if you insist (hint: 3-5mb each)

Why this assumption that developers are so stupid they can't make their games fit on 8GB? We're suppsoed to believe that they will solve all teh problems of CELL, and multi-threading with ease, but these same brilliant minds can not figure out how to fit their game on an 8GB disc?

 

wow,your very sensitive!

i will take it as fact that polyphony are crap at compression(and other dev's)

if true(and continue to be true)then blu ray is needed,yes? :twisted

 

UT games have never used anything but realtime stuff (if there are cutscenes at all), that's not going to grab you savings in the comparisons mentioned above.

Well sticking to UT, well over half my UT2004 install is taken up by textures (2.92GB)..

Textures, maps, static meshes and animations take over 90% of the install space - and all those things will scale up.

Textures in UT2004 fill nearly 3GB, as mentioned above. With potential doubling or quadrupling in resolution and the addition of 1 or 2 normal maps per mesh, it's not difficult to see how texture requirements could easily exceed the figure you quote there quite handsomely.You'd actually be quite lucky if all it did was double - that'd be on the low end judging by Epics UE2 and UE3 content guidelines.

 

No. Problem is PS2 was crap at compressing things.

Why do you think most ps2-ports drop 30%-50% of it's filesize after coming over to XBOX?

 

PS2 didn't have any texture compression did it?

But again, what exactly is the downside to consumers of having larger-capacity media?

Even if one game out of 1000 went beyond DVD-9, why wouldn't you want something with more capacity for around the same money? (assuming any price delta between the X360 and PS3 is $100 or less).

 

PS2 was not 'crap' at compressing things (quite the opposite) and it has got texture compression as well.

 

ooooooooooooooook.....

i was about to reply to you scooby(to apologise about not knowing about compression ) but have just read nao's post.whose right?

 

Data

Since GT4 has many more cars (geometry, texture, audio, other data) and tracks for many different cars, maybe it has more data storage requirements.

Also, I disagree about relative detail level of cars and tracks between GT4 and Forza but I have read forums and noticed that for many this is sensitive topic and some find personal offence in such statements so I will not go into detail.

 

Ever heard of redundant-blocks of data saved to optimize loads and reduce rather expensive seeks?

 

How many cars does Forza have compared to GT4? *hint*: Not that even a third the amount. Tracks?

Also, you're comparing the car models of Forza (apple) to the car models of GT4 (orange) without knowing what kind of data the teams are saving per car.

Another reason may be because Forza saves its data differently because the Xbox comes standard with a harddrive and may be optimized to uncompess bits of data to the harddrive where as PS2 needs to fit all the data in the main memory.

 

What you consider significant may not be at the same threshold as others.

I use a PJ on a 120 inch screen, i have well over 700 (well i lost count) DVD's, iv'e played HD content, both MPEG2 and VC-1 on my PJ, i know this stuff from experience (classic way of trying to establish credebility )

I daily see SD/SDI quality stuff on high end Barco monitors, and can most certainly say there is plenty of room for improvement on the DVD encoding side.

DVD is by far not transparent, not at 6-7-8-9 or 10 mbit and this is just for shitty low res SD quality stuff. In my mind there can be NO doubt that h.264 will beat the crap out of MPEG2 on BR/HD-DVD. As my example showed 35mbit is needed just to get on par with DVD quality (yeah i know it may be tad less), and DVD quality just doesn't cut it if you can get something thats better.

Ohh and sony can take their claims and stick it right where they keep the money saved on license costs...

 

Ummmm.... no

you're comparing a game that is optimised at a display of what??? 480p...

while the latter can be played at resolutions that are a lot higher than a regular tv...

some say that a DVD isn't enough because of the fact that the next gen systems will now be rendering their "glorious" graphics in high resolutions...

i am aware that compressing data could make it possible to cram 20 GBs worth of stuff in a 4.7GB or an 8.5GB DVD but then you will end up wasting some cycles trying to unpack and decompress that data...

 

GT4 is roughly 4gigs and not 9gigs.

 

Actually GT4 recycles car models much more heavily tha Forza does, sow how many more UNIQUE car models does GT4 have is the question, 20 variations of every model doesn't count.

And you missed the point entirely. The question isn't whether GT4 will fit on DVD, it's whether a game of that calibre requires 9GB of space. Forza proves it does not, simple as that.

Someone threw out 9gb for GT4 as an example of current gen disc sizes, not only is the completely non-representative of the vast majority of games out today, but we don't even have a breakdown of the disc content to make any sort of assessment where that disc space was spent.

So, all I can say to that point is, here's forza which has damage modelling, higher polygon models, better AI, online mode, technically graphically superior and takes up less than 1/3 of that space so it's obviously possible to make a game of GT4 calibre with MUCH less than 9GB. Maybe not on PS2...but that's a different issue.

 

GT4 Disc capacity

I have not checked but some have told me GT4 has disc use of 5.6GB/s.

 

Mistake

I meant 5.6GB. I am sorry for mistake.

 

I don't expect h.264 at low bitrates to be anywhere near a 80mbit mpeg2 stream, but if the bitrate is the same h.264 will always win. So rather have 25mbit h.264 than 25mbit MPEG2 on BR and HD-DVD