aaronspink said:
No he quotes Tom that is on the MPEG2 side of the issue and Tom states that at least 40 Mb/s is required.
amirm was replying to this post of Tom where no one talk about the bitrate :
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6654809&&#post6654809
Richard Paul quote amirm saying he was talking about that post here :
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...e=558&pp=30&highlight=WM9+codec+at+hi+bitrare
Richard Paul said:
amirm said:
Since you all believe Tom on this stuff, why don't you ask him if he thinks MPEG-2 at 24 Mbit/sec CBR is transparent to the source at 1080p?
mir, no offense but if you think that Tom said something wrong in
this post than why not point it out to us? After all his post basically refutes something that you have been telling for over a year. As such I expected an explanation Amir and not grumbling about how people believe Tom over you. A nice attempt though Amir to try to divert attention from what Tom actually said though .
Second he point out that also Tom would say that you can't get a trasparent quality with 24mbps and point out that he think you need for real 40Mbit/sec. he don't talk about 80mb/sec. , this is the quality you get with D cinema.
amirm said:
why don't you ask him if he thinks MPEG-2 at 24 Mbit/sec CBR is transparent to the source at 1080p?"
" transparent to the source "
"Even he would readily tell you that you need far higher data rate. I think he used the 40 Mbit/sec number."
And here he state that he think Tom say you need 40Mbit/sec. for a trasparent transfer.
Tell me where Tom state that you need 80Mbit/sec. for a transparent transfert ?
Quote him
But the industry seems to think that at least ~80 Mb/s is required for MPEG2 and even that is insufficient since they want to move to 250 Mb/s MJPEG.
I am well aware that the standard is 80Mbit/sec. but this have nothing to do with the post of amirm. He say that he think you need 40Mbit/sec.
No need to quote him when I can refer to the industry moving to 250 Mb/s MJPEG for theatre distrobution.
How can this make amimr stating that you need 250mbps to have the point where
you have no difference from Mpeg2/VC-1 ?
What, now you want to argue that DVD video doesn't display significant artifacts?
Hum, no, with spiderman 2 for example i don't see the video showing evident macroblocks.
Well then why the hell would we ever need HD-DVD or BR? Cause, as you state, DVD at 5-6 Mb/s is just dandy.
"Charlie’s Angels was encoded at an average bit rate of 18MB per second, compared to the 7MBs to 8MBs that VC-1 and MPEG-4 are designed to run at. Though the images might be the same, higher bit rates mean you have to store more bits to start with, which takes up space on the disc.
At 18MBs, Charlie’s Angels eats up the better part of a 25GB Blu-ray Disc, leaving room for no more than the ordinary compliment of extras—hardly the sort of over-the-top package many Blu-ray supporters gave as the reason to adopt the higher-capacity format.
Sony officials counter that high-quality MPEG-2 encoders have been around for years and the format is well understood, while encoding tools for the newer codecs are still being developed and the formats are less “mature.â€
http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6288668.html
I think you are understimatin the quality you can have with a good encoding.
Charlie’s Angels don't show any video artifact at all and use only 18 mb/sec.
The point is that if you consider only the audio/video 36Mbit/sec. are enough to don't get any artifact, but you have also to fit all the special plus multi audio tracks, ecc, the space can be an no enough, this relate to when he say "However, we can not afford sufficient bitrate for some of the things we want to do".
The truth is that at 5-6 Mb/s and even at the max of ~10 Mb/s DVD shows significant artifacts.
significant artifacts ? Significant means you have evident big macroblocks appearing an all the screen, i don't see any macroblocks in spiderman2.
Do you know that a dvd video can take months for the encoding alone to make sure you don't have any artifact
with a 6mbps ?
Hardly any dvd video go over 8Mpbs.
Even 80 Mb/s MPEG2 isn't transparent to the source for 1080P res. Its pretty good but not "transparent to the source".
I saw by myself a lot of Dcinema movie and i am well aware at what is the quality of the master , but it is not me saying that you can get a trasparent quality with at lest 40MBit/sec.
amirm said:
I think he used the 40 Mbit/sec number