doh, i had totally forgotten about the intermediate transform matrix! my original joke got wasted
WiiGeePeeYou (Hollywood) what IS it ?
- Thread starter Megadrive1988
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doh, i had totally forgotten about the intermediate transform matrix! my original joke got wasted
well, let me spoil it a bit for you then
in a recent mp3 footage i saw samus and her ship were virtually indistinguishable in the in-game cutscenes from that promo CGI nintendo showed couple of years ago (bar self-shadowing and of course, whatever AA there may have been obscured by the video compression)
Thanks I had forgotten how slow that memory is.
In that case what is the reason why we didnt saw some advanced normal mapping and such, lack of raw speed?
Like the Nintendo quotes I wouldnt take that much credit in the literal sense of that, for one we dont know what is meant by a "turbo-charged", could be the case that a 7800 is a turbo-charged 6800 in his mind. Althought it is hard to run from something as direct as the Retro guys how said that it is a new architeture.
of course, it's a subject to speculation. but i still deem this particular one viable.
aside from geometry per se not being that memory intensive*, i thought flipper provided these nice integer vertex compression formats (i.e. in addition to the fp32), which, if not universally applicable, would still allow wary devs as retro to halve the footprint of the better part of their geometry assets. i'm basing this on the fact that the metroids seem to predominantly use visuals akin to vertext formats as simple as position+normal+2 uv sets - i.e. i'm leaving aside skinned scene content, which by all means is used sparingly in the mp series.
now, if i did not screw up a calc in that 1st footnote below, and we subsequently factor in the abovementioned compression, that still leaves ~8MB worth of texture space**. or IOW, retro could have used as much as ~16MB worh of geometry at every single moment, while utilizing flipper's TnL power practically to the max!
now, call me an optimistic simplificator, but i don't see the above scenario as that improbable. if anybody, retro could have really pulled off that one.
oh come on, my cat bought it ; )
* assuming flipper's 6M-to-12M tris/sec attested TnL performance with fully-lit and textured meshes, @60FPS = 100K-200K triangles per scene, with index-less formats (strips, fans) that would amout to similar amount of vertices, with a reasonable vertex format of position+normal+2*uv = 10 scalars/vertex, using fp32 as scalars = 40bytes/vertex, grand total of 200K*40bytes = 8000KB worth of geometry you may hope to push per scene at these assumed conditions, while not being clever with any vertex compression schemes. throw in the fact that metroids level topology constitutes of individual rooms (rooms being separated by retro's trademark portal & streaming tech), and mp rooms have usually high scene visibiliy, i.e. low intra-room occlusion factors, or at lest not so much that you could use in-advance mass scene content rejection, and you end up with not more than a couple of scenes-worth of geometry assets per your average mp room. provide for some double-buffering for the streaming algorithms, and we end up with ~32MB of geometry assets you may want to have at max at any single moment of your average mp gameplay. take this as an absolute upper bound.
** flipper's on-board tex pool non-withstanding, and assuming sound assets being kept in eveybody's favourite A-ram.
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Ooh-videogames
Regular
It just doesn't make sense to me, that Nintendo when providing devkits to devs, would release them Hollywood excluded. This is focusing on the premise, that Hollywood is just a Flipper with a increase frequency, and physical shrink.
Its obvious Hollywood is based on Flipper, so I ask everyone participating in this board.
If you were Nintendo, making the decision to use Flipper tech. Would you increase pixel pipelines, textures in a single pass, hardware lights, or would you just increase Flipper clock-rate?
Would it cost Nintendo much to do this?
Its obvious Hollywood is based on Flipper, so I ask everyone participating in this board.
If you were Nintendo, making the decision to use Flipper tech. Would you increase pixel pipelines, textures in a single pass, hardware lights, or would you just increase Flipper clock-rate?
Would it cost Nintendo much to do this?
I was surfing on Kotaku's website and a user posted a leaked screenshot of Far Cry Wii that looks similar to the first leaked screenshots. It has better lighting and bump mapping seems to be implemented. The question is why would Ubisoft officially release crappy screenshots and not these.
I would say double the pipelines and increase the clockspeed by 50%, which would bring us to 3 times the raw fillrate of NGC. That's a pretty good increase fillrate-wise (especially since Wii doesn't support HD resolutions), but where Wii falls short so far is in the quality of those pixels (24bits color depth, fixed geometry pipeline, no HDR, lack of high quality FSAA and AF...).
Except that on NV2a the arguments to those dot products are arbitary, on flipper half the arguments have to be constants which means either you change them per triangle (which is totally impractical) or you only really use them for trivial transforms, notably the EMBM they are designed for.
Talking about Broadway it is hard to belive it is just more the same, as we saw some pages ago the CPU does have more than twice of the size it as supossed to have (25mm^ instead of 11mm^) once it is hard to belive they just put a lot more cache (IIRC about 1/2 of the die is cache) then it should have been upgraded, and if this is the case it is just normal that they upgraded the GPU too.
In that case it will still be very hard to see things like normal mapping and such, if the archiiteture resemble flipper one.
Just one not so related question, using selfshadowing on the GC (eg like RS) does the number of vertexs per object does have a impact on the amount of CPU time it is needed to do it, or is just afeected by the number of objects?
My apologies if I am indeed confused, but I'm pretty certain I did read this in an interview or such somewhere... Hm, maybe I dreamt it, I dunno!
Wasn't there ever a GC version of MP3 at some point in time...?
My apologies if I am indeed confused, but I'm pretty certain I did read this in an interview or such somewhere... Hm, maybe I dreamt it, I dunno!
Wasn't there ever a GC version of MP3 at some point in time...?
Nope. The first MP3 demo was, however, created on GCN hardware, but it was always scheduled for Wii or Revolution at that time.
Ooh-videogames
Regular
IIRC, GC could do AF, just not at any multiple. Would it be safe to assume, if they increased the number of pixel pipelines, including the increase of available memory, more AF use would implementable.
I wouldn't say, for certain that Hollywood employs a fixed function geometry pipeline. Does Hollywood have to be nearly an exact replica of Flipper in order to allow full BC? I think we can afford to leave some things in the realm of possibility. Nintendo's pixel format patent, confuses me. It includes the option for YUV(420,422), this would suggest the possibility of a format of 32bits. The way it reads, using this format affects anti-aliasing to where you lose it.
Watching Excite Truck at gametrailers, it just doesn't seem possible on Flipper without some added features. The water reflections, draw distance, foliage, and a blistering 60fps.
Knock some of these games to 30, I think the games would shine feature wise. IMO, of course.
I also think graphics is the reason for MP3 delay, some textures show no sign of being developed for hardware with access to an added 64MBs of memory.
New take of Mark Rein on Wii
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=146449
So it maybe very hard but it is possible to put a UE3 game on Wii (probably without a lot of features).
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=146449
So it maybe very hard but it is possible to put a UE3 game on Wii (probably without a lot of features).
Ooh-videogames
Regular
Why put them under NDA, I think they have been contracted to create a Wii specific engine.
sure, with a lot of effort and perseverance, but why? do you think a game like, say, MP3 would have gained enything from UE3?
Ubi are doing good stuff with UE2 - and that's as much as you need to see from Epic's creations on this platform.
Thunder Emperor
Newcomer
now that will be great
They need to make algorithms for normal mapping so it can be standard!!!!
NDA's are common in the industry. Even if you don't do any business with a specific company, if you are even meeting with them to discuss that possibility, there will be a non-disclosure agreement. Nintendo would not have revealed the Wii specifications to Epic otherwise.
sorry, ban25, i noticed your reply only now.
so you attribute all observed advancements to what? - 50% clock upping and the new memory pool?
what do you think is that which i believe is 'more in the box than there actually is'? for what it's worth, it could be an extra flipper's XF unit - do you or don't you know for sure there has not been one added?
so you attribute all observed advancements to what? - 50% clock upping and the new memory pool?
what do you think is that which i believe is 'more in the box than there actually is'? for what it's worth, it could be an extra flipper's XF unit - do you or don't you know for sure there has not been one added?
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Maybe doom 3 would be a better fit then?
Anyhow, interesting he mentioned Intel Integrated graphics. I wonder if he's referring to the intel extreme graphics which they're most known for, which I would put below even the gamecube hardware, the gma900/950 which I'd say is probably on par with the cube, or the upcoming intel integrated graphics?
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