WiiGeePeeYou (Hollywood) what IS it ?

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by Megadrive1988, May 21, 2006.

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  1. Panajev2001a

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    You can see the rendered scene with more clarity thus noticing imperfections and artifacts in an easier way than before so you need to be more careful and work more hours to create better content for the scene you are going to render than before (to make a long story short).
     
  2. pc999

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    True, but taking in account that this game (if this is the case) it will not follow the same way of many other Ubisoft games of using last gen (even from the GC) and port it to wii, once that there isnt any BIA game for GC I guess that they do want to do a "updated" game in all senses.

    I mean it should be much easier to just update last gen (PS2) engines and assets for the Wii.
     
  3. swaaye

    swaaye Entirely Suboptimal
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    Like Panajev2001a said, resolution is just part of it. The more advanced hardware not only runs the higher res, but also can handle more HQ and more complex assets. And because it's a "pertiness" arms race, everyone is basically out to outdo each other on graphics and it just escalates crazy out of control. Nintendo is mostly out of that race.

    Game budgets for major titles are easily $10-20 million this generation, I believe. This is partly why middleware is really emerging now (complexity of the tech and cost savings in devel by licensing tech).
     
  4. ninzel

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    So it's not the resolution itself,it's fulffilling the increased expectations that come with an HD system and it's games.
     
  5. Dregun

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    Why do we constantly praise Nintendo for "Making Money"? This is just like saying "Go Big OIL make your billions but charge me 2x as much for a tank of gas"! Nintendo only cares about profits and I understand from a company standpoint you need to make money but why this way? Any devs that leave development for the 360 or PS3 to "save money" to develop for a console without HD shows you how greedy we have become. People are actually happy paying 250 for the Wii and I don't get it, its cheaper to manufacture then the Cube was when it was released but being sold for the same amount? Would you pay 250 for a PS2.5 with six axis and built in ethernet or an Xbox1.3 with the hard drive removed and the Wii controller added? Would you call Sony or MS greedy because they are charging you a premium for last generations technology?

    Nintendo milked the original GameBoy forever, then they milked the GBC and made a blip with the GBA. It wasn't until Sony hinted about entering the Handheld market that Nintendo decided to "Revolutionize" anything and add a touch screen..ala DS. Being Nintendo I highly doubt we would have even seen a DS yet if it wasn't for the fact that they were afraid of competition. This is what has hurt Nintendo in the past and if they are not careful it is going to hurt them in the near future.

    Whats going to happen when the PSP2 comes out with the same graphics the Wii has and has built in Six Axis? How is that going to make Nintendo look when a handheld has the same technology as a home console...only portable? I'm just saying Nintendo has to be careful that they dont trade "profits" today for continued "profits" in the future. If the Wii is any indication on what we can expect from a new handheld then we better hope they dont make a handheld equal to the Wii or the Wii wont sell to anyone!

    Dregun
     
  6. tongue_of_colicab

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    1. Sixaxis is totally different than the wiiremote. Sixaxes is nothing more than the tiltsensor nintendo already had on the gba for that Yoshi game. So in a way the ps3 has tech nintendo already used long ago in their handheld ;)

    2. I highly doubt constantly moving your handheld will be fun. You cant watch decently at the screen if you are constantly moving the whole handheld.
     
  7. Readykilowatt

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    Remember this?

    It's will be very interesting to see how this "chess match" between Nintendo (Wii) and Sony/Microsoft will play out over the next couple of years. BTW, I have one word for the PSP... Checkmate. :razz:
     
  8. Shifty Geezer

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    Incorrect. The tile sensor couldn't detect linear motion, only angular. It was AFAIK a 2D input. Sixaxis has a 6D input.
    This is why a 2D tilt input is as high as you'd want to go on a handheld. Moving the screen around while you move the controls is just plain daft!
     
  9. Dregun

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    Its funny because I thought the people who "Jolt" or "lean" the controllers while playing were having some kind of episode or lacked the intelligence to distinguish between a game and reality. So has anyone actually seen someone who "Leans" their body while playing games? I can see people leaning their whole body around while playing games so why wouldn't six axis work that way? I find both the Wii-mote and the Sixaxis to be a gimmick anyways but the point is they have the same audience. Someone could easily play a flight simulator with a PSP2 using six axis, use the PSP2 to shake off monsters or what have you.

    These quotes just sum up why I started to dislike Nintendo, they are out of touch with gamers but don't know it. They make it sound like gamers dont care about graphics, yet the PC industry shows that highend videocards do sell and games that take advantage of the new graphics sell as well. They also dont see how even PC's with the vast majority of accessories have not needed to sell those accessories to sell games. People play racing games on the PC without wheels they play flight sims without sticks and people can use a 101 key controller (keyboard) and a mouse and have no problem with "nimble enough fingers".

    I know I know your going to throw up sales numbers for the DS and Wii and say they can't be out of touch with gamers because they are selling. McDonalds is selling as well as Taco Bell but do you think people actually prefer going to McDonalds over going to Applebees for a burger? Or going to Taco Bell over going to an authentic Mexican restaurant for a burrito? It comes down to cost for profit and Nintendo is king at making Profit from such a low cost when it comes to games. Right now they are doing to the gaming industry what fast food is doing to our kids health, we are selling ourselves cheap to them by not expecting them to deliver a quality product.

    I can't hide my dislike for Nintendo with sales numbers and fancy quotes from people who are supposed to be vastly more intelligent according to their job title. Just wish the VW/Apple/Nintendo fanatics who are loyal to those companies to no end would stop shoveling the PR of "we know what people want" down our throats because the common person does not want what they are selling. Nintendo reminds me of Apple in so many ways its not even funny, it wasn't long ago when Apple almost died and the only thing that saved Nintendo was the lack of competition to the Handheld market.

    Dregun
     
  10. Fox5

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    Heh, the Wii is the DS all over game,a system far weaker than we could have possibly imagined.

    For DS, people were thinking a Dreamcast level system....and we get a n64 level system.
    For Wii, people were thinking a Radeon 9700 pro level system...instead we get an Xbox level system, if that. Eh, at least the wii is closer to expected, it might make even 1/10th the power of the other systems.
     
  11. Shifty Geezer

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    That has nothing to do with intelligence. They're reflex responses handled by the spinal grey-matter and other response systems, rather than higher brain functions. Those sorts of responses demonstrate a player is engrossed in the game.
    Everyone I've ever known play 3D computer games has moved involuntarily to some degree or other. Not everyone throws the controller about when trying to jump, but you'll be hard-pushed to find anyone who does crane their neck to look over hills or around corners.
    It does, if wielded that way.

    There's a BIG difference. With sixaxis, if you're shaking the controller with your hands, the screen stays still and you can still see what's happening. With a motion controlled handheld, if you shake your hands, the screen shakes too. To avoid that you'd need to keep the screen's position fixed relative to the eyes, so to shake the handheld, you'd need to shake hands and head the same amount. Which could only be managed with a full body shake (and even then not very effectively). A handheld is ideal for tilt where the motion to detected is very slight or gently progressive, like those balls-through-a-maze games. Any faster motions will mess up the display. A console with motion control separate from the display can go to town onthe control scheme.
     
  12. tongue_of_colicab

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    Thats a pretty laughable argument if you consider that just about every game that nintendo releases not only sells very very good but also scores high grades on review sites. Their traditional titels sell very good but also new stuff like brain training. Wich you might not like but they wouldnt sell over 5 million copies worldwide if it sucked. If you ask me nintendo knows what gamers want better than gamers know they want. Afterall, alot of stuff we take for granted these days was brought to the mass market by nintendo.

    D-pad? check
    Analoge stick? check
    Rumble? check
    3d platformers? check

    And now they took the next step with motion controlls.

    No they dont. They say that they think the time for ever increasing processing power with the same sort of games (fps are still all like doom, only better looking) has come to a end and that gaming needs to go into a different direction. They dont say that gfx dont matter at all, they say it has become less important. Sure ps3 and x360 and high end pc produce awsome gfx wich are usefull in games, but in a way you are still playing exactly the same games as 10 years ago. The ideas are still the same only things look alot better. Nintendo tries to make the experiance different by changing the way you play games.

    Besides that I dont think the increase in power is a must. We are at a point at wich things will only look better but not in such a effective way as the other generations. From snes to n64/psx was hugh, from n64/psx to ps2/xbox/gc was also big because we went from jaggypollymess to clean and sharp with a decent amount of detail and not alot of holdback for devs (look at zelda and gta, big worlds with plenty of interaction). But now we go from something wich is already pretty good to something wich only is better. The increase just doesnt matter that much anymore to most people. That is one of the reasons why the gaming market in Japan stopped crowing. They got fed up with constantly doing the same things only with better gfx. And the succes of the DS shows there is demand for games that dont only focus on gfx but also focus more on gameplay.

    You do realize that you are only speaking for a small majority of the population right? even for gamers playing a fligh sim is almost impossible without a joystick and alot of people just cant work with a mouse and keyboard. Again you missed the point that nintendo doesnt only want to satisfy the current gamers but they also want to make non gamers play games. And the main reason for those people not playing games is because its to complicated.

    Looking at the weight problems of american sociaty and how often they visit fastfood restaurants I think its safe to say their lust for fat is alot bigger than the need for a decent piece of food. Otherwise they wouldn visit MC a couple of times a week but just buy one good burger/burrito once a week.

    Lol you talk crap. Actually how many crappy products, both hard and software did nintendo released the last decade? Indeed, non to very little depending on your point of view. If there is one company wich should be praised for not ripping their customers off it should be nintendo.

    And in the end because of that you fail to give even one decent argument in your whole post.
     
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  13. Dregun

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    What games have you been playing? Seriously how many games can Mario be featured in, what did they bring new to the game of Mario Golf, Mario Tennis, Mario Kart Racing? Those are the same games we have been playing for a long time..a kart racing game is still a racing game. The Wii remote isn't near as significant because it has just as many limitations as advantages..nothing has changed. I can list vast improvements in games from the original Wolfenstein3D to Half Life 2 when it comes to FPS that couldn't be done without stronger hardware. Do you honestly think the only thing better about HL2 compared to Doom1 is the graphics?? NO! With stronger computers and graphics cards came better animation, better facial animation, better AI, better physics (HUGE considering its affects (not effects) in games. More power allowed for VAST areas, GTA or Jax and Daxter for example are the result of BETTER hardware which can also be seen in todays FPS. They wouldn't even have considered putting vehicles in FPS if the hardware wasn't better then what was available for Doom1. More advances have been made through stronger hardware then has been with new controllers, or did you forget about the Power Glove??

    Thats wrong, with increased power does not only come better graphics..thats Nintendos thinking which you have swallowed up too easily. Better hardware means larger worlds, better animation, better AI, better physics..you might be able to see all of it but its what you dont see initially thats so important. Wouldnt it be nice if during a football game you can tackle someone and depending on the speed, angle and position of the players the animation of them being hit would look different? Granted the goal in Nintendos eyes are the same ...you tackled someone because thats just how they see it. For the player they see the same animations over and over and over, no fancy controller is going to magically make you visualize it any different and bring you closer to the game. Dont EVER bring up Japan's gaming habits again, its the most illogical assumption you can make or do you want to play Dating Sims too? Its always been known that Japans impressions of games is vastly different then the rest of the world. Have you even seen half of the games that come out over in Japan, obviously you haven't or you wouldn't have subjected yourself to using "That is one of the reasons why the gaming market in Japan stopped crowing".

    Again you fail to see the real issue at hand. Its the same with the Wii if the Wii and PS3 and 360 were the same price the Wii would be dead. People dont buy a Double Cheeseburger from MC'ds because they like the taste they do it because if they only have 3 dollars 3 double cheeseburgers is a better deal then a 4oz steak. I wonder if you ever had to choose between something you wanted and something you could afford? Don't tell me you think a $200 CRT is better then the 400 LCD because Nintendo told you so?

    Once again Nintendo's PR has you, who do you think REALLY wants its customers to be happy? Nintendo who is making profit off of the console off the bat, or the other 2 companies who are losing money off the bat to give people something better for their money? EVERYTHING nintendo has released in the last decade has been crappy products because they wont compete with anyone and only want to focus on profits! The GBA using SNES hardware when the PSP was around the corner with PS2 type hardware? How about the N64 using Carts when obviously CD's were around the corner? What about the Cube using a closed format when DVD's were becoming cheap and were superior in capacity? What about the lack of 3rd party support, that a nintendo short coming. Nintendo is the LAST company that should be praised for NOT ripping off its customers, otherwise they would take less financial gain to please its supporters!.

    All my arguments go against the PR that Nintendo has been pushing for the last decade! Its why the Cube failed, its why the GBA failed (rushed life cycle because of the introduction of the DS to compete with the PSP) and its why the Wii is going to fail. I'm all for innovation but not at the cost of higher profit due to cost that is Nintendos philosophy. Make the Wii with an advanced controller just at least put some DECENT hardware inside the machine so gamers can have both things they want...Nice graphics and good controls. Im really starting to wonder if you Wii supporters would have bought the Wii if it had the same hardware but new controls (ala Wii) for $250 because thats the REAL CRIME!

    Dregun
     
  14. Magnum PI

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    what's the connection of these posts with the hollywood chip ?
     
  15. theafu

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    I've seen straight hatin before but this takes the cake. GBA failed, it kicked the crap out of everything before it console or handheld wise , only thing that likely will do what it did is maybe the DS. You're off about your last comment too for spewing not listen to PR talk you certainly sound like the usual off brand ****** for any <insert console> here that dislikes nintendo. This is certainly ot and none of your post have anything to do with topic at hand which is the hollywood.
     
  16. Megadrive1988

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    why can't we even see a block diagram of the Hollywood GPU :/ ? Nintendo and their secrets.

    why is Hollywood so secret when Flipper wasn't? don't answer, i already know. Nintendo doesn't want anyone comparing Hollywood to Xenos and RSX.
     
  17. Dregun

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    Your right, obviously all my comments show that I am a ****** of all handhelds and consoles that are not Nintendo! Over HALF of this thread has been about things OTHER then the Hollywood, but it doesn't matter. I'll just say I'm glad other companies are in the video game market or we would still be playing SNES type games because its all about gameplay and graphics never help that area. I see more "hatin" coming from the Wii crowd then I do from the PS3 or Xbox360 crowd, just like Ipod owners it doesn't matter if its overpriced and inferior to everything else its what THEY say I want.

    Dregun
     
  18. see colon

    see colon All Ham & No Potatos
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    maybe nintendo doesn't want anyone comparing hollywood to flipper.

    here's spmething that bothers me. if Wii cannot change it's clockspeed for something like wiiconnect24(at least for CPU, maybe also GPU), it shouldn't be able to change it's clockspeed while playing a GC game. i know some people have stated that GC games run better on wii (i haven't personaly seen any of that, but i really haven't tested it too much either), but considering the clockspeeds alone shouldn't GC games be running at a fair better clip? wouldn't there be some issues with backwards compatability? even the PS2 had a couple of BC issues. hell, even different revisions of the PS1 and sega saturn had issues running certain games in certain situations* but i've heard nothing negative about Wii BC.



    *one of the spider-man games on PS1 was picky about what models it ran properly on, and US marvel super heroes for SS would slow to a slideshow with anything but the original model saturn if you were using the ram cart. different models of PS2 also broke BC with some PS1 games, and even broke some PS2 games.
     
  19. pc999

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    When everybody thinks that it is just a overclock a of 50% (like I showed that it isnt, using the 750CL die size) I cant do no worst situation than the current one.
     
  20. Fox5

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    I've heard of a few backwards compat issues with the Wii, but considering it has been hacked in exactly the same way gamecube was, it may be even closer to just an overclocked gamecube than even some of the ps2 revisions. (the gamecube was also far simpler hardware than the ps2, in terms of number of components and interconnections) Additionally, Nintendo supposedly only allowed a select few devs low level access to the hardware, and even then some things might have been off limits, and most development was still done high level. It's possible that anything that could be major and game breaking was kept high level, Nintendo may not be Microsoft, but they're still a damn good software house with good organization.

    And I can attest to games running smoother (and possibly even looking slightly better, probably just better output) on the wii. Rebel Strike still has slow down though, but not as much. Shame how far off from 60 fps that game really was if it can't run smoothly even with a 50% boost in clock rate. Many other Cube games seem to run smooth now, though. The wii may apply 2x antialiasing t as well, but I can't be sure since I'm only going from memory. I don't see jaggies where I used to remember them and cube games look fairly jaggy free, but at the same time there are still jaggies and I don't see the telltale signs of blurred edges to indicate the existence of antialiasing. The Wii should have faster loading times too, as the Wii's disc drive is something like twice the speed of the Cube's, though I'm not sure if that difference would go away when using a smaller sized disc in the Wii.
     
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