Wii = ultra affordable?

[dobwal]

Wii is overpriced, it's just that a lot of you are willing to pay that much for it

I find this statement to be hilarious. If a lot of people are willing to pay for an item at a certain price point, then how is it "overpriced". If demand is greater than supply at $250.00 then there a better argument for it being "underpriced".

I seriously think that Nintendo will see the sales fall down this spring...

Name one console that maintained the sales rate of the holiday season during the following spring.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

I find this statement to be hilarious. If a lot of people are willing to pay for an item at a certain price point, then how is it "overpriced". If demand is greater than supply at $250.00 then there a better argument for it being "underpriced".

A Ferrari Enzo costs about half a million dollars. They've managed to sell all of them at that price point. Is it overpriced, or affordable as a sports car then?

You see how the same logic can lead to ridiculous conclusions if we apply it to the proper situation...

The thing is, Nintendo has seen what has happened to the X360 - there was so much demand for the limited supply that a lot of people were willing to pay extra through Ebay auctions just to get one. Sony has not decided to profit from this opportunity with the PS3, even though they could've sold this first 500K units at a price as high as $1000 in retail as well.

The Wii does not cost $250 to make, probably not even $150. But the initial demand is big enough to sell a couple million consoles as long as it's not too expensive. Yes, the laws of supply and demand mean that it's price is not relatively high because they can sell them. But compare the Wii to the other consoles, or ask the average person about it...
It's the same with BluRay players, or I could list dozens of other examples. Initial supply is low, but there are enough AV enthusiasts who will buy every single one even at brutally high prices. The Wii is a more moderate case, but it's still far from being affordable.

Name one console that maintained the sales rate of the holiday season during the following spring.

Obviously I've meant that sales would drop lower then usual, and would not pick up, as soon as Nintendo runs out of the early adopters, hardcore enthusiasts or whatever you prefer to call them. The X360 is selling pretty well, even though it's quite beyond the hardcore segment and the price hasn't droped at all. But I'm quite sure that the Wii won't cost $250 a year from now.

 

[Nesh]

I kind o fthink that Wii is currently overrated with its offerings. Its games arent anything remarkable so far.
The wi controller ads some new experience but really the games dont have that "something else" in them so far. And there are so many people that claim they should get a Wii over a 360, but when I ask them "Why" they have the impression that the wii controller makes gaming so unbelievably realistic everything else doesnt matter on other consoles. Strange thing is, most of the people I ve asked they never playied or seen a Wii game. They base their opinion totally on the fact that the wii is motion sensing thus believing its like "playing real tennis, its like driving a real car, its likeusing a real gun, its like the game does whatever you want it to". That tennis game for example the only thing you do is swing your hand from what I could get. And the game itself lacks any kind of realism both visually and in feel.

My fingers and my brain do more things in a game like Virtua Tennis than Wii's tennis. The fact that you move your hands instead of fingers dont quite make a game more believable. Its the many things you have to do and consider why playing the game. Because its the complexity and variety of real life (and not necessarilly real life) implemented in a game that makes a game feel more immersive.

In a game like GT for example its the detail and depth in the driving that made it so attractive to driving funs. You have to thing and use your steering, suspension, acceleration, weight and whatever just like you do in real life. Depsite that you use your fingers only, the only thing that matters is the detail in the driving found in real life. When you are absorbed into a game, swinging your hand or using your controller as a steering doesnt add much if the right elements are missing. And that Wii monster truck game seems to lack in many respecs compared to arcade games. If it wasnt for the controller I doubt it would have got the attention it got.

I doubt it would absorb me more than other superb arcade games like Scud Race and Daytona USA 2


Currently Wii's controller more like simplified too much gaming than improved it. This could change ofcourse since its too early but so far, games havent improved. I ll get a Wii but not as a replacement for 360 or a PS3. More like having some crazy fan with my sis and friends.

If I could make a parallel comparison wiith other forms of entertainment I would say that Wii is like a board game to invite your friends over and have some unserious, crazy fan with, (like the fun you get from playing Jenga or Scrubble or something ). I cant view myself playing some games alone with it and as seriously as 360 or some forthcoming PS3 games so far.

Gears of War currently could be more immersive than anything the Wii is offering even without controls. The AI, gaming mechanics and visual splendour are enough.

 

[Skrying]

And you're judging tons of the possible functionality from one game....

 

[OtakingGX]

A Ferrari Enzo costs about half a million dollars. They've managed to sell all of them at that price point. Is it overpriced, or affordable as a sports car then?

But affordable and overpriced are not antonyms. The Enzo is quite expensive, so it's definitely not affordable for most. Is it necessarily overpriced? Not really.

You see how the same logic can lead to ridiculous conclusions if we apply it to the proper situation...

But the semantics were all wrong.

The thing is, Nintendo has seen what has happened to the X360 - there was so much demand for the limited supply that a lot of people were willing to pay extra through Ebay auctions just to get one. Sony has not decided to profit from this opportunity with the PS3, even though they could've sold this first 500K units at a price as high as $1000 in retail as well.

The Wii does not cost $250 to make, probably not even $150. But the initial demand is big enough to sell a couple million consoles as long as it's not too expensive. Yes, the laws of supply and demand mean that it's price is not relatively high because they can sell them. But compare the Wii to the other consoles, or ask the average person about it...
It's the same with BluRay players, or I could list dozens of other examples. Initial supply is low, but there are enough AV enthusiasts who will buy every single one even at brutally high prices. The Wii is a more moderate case, but it's still far from being affordable.




Obviously I've meant that sales would drop lower then usual, and would not pick up, as soon as Nintendo runs out of the early adopters, hardcore enthusiasts or whatever you prefer to call them. The X360 is selling pretty well, even though it's quite beyond the hardcore segment and the price hasn't droped at all. But I'm quite sure that the Wii won't cost $250 a year from now.

I don't think it's just early adopters picking up the Wii. I think its affordability has brought the next wave of consumers, who would normally wait, to the forefront.

I don't think Nintendo is trying to gouge consumers at all. I agree, there is not $250 worth of technology inside that surprisingly heavy box. From a "most bang for your buck" perspective it's definitely a losing proposition. Not every company loses their shirt over a product. I come from an industry where it's pretty common to see 50+% gross margin (meaning sell price is double cost). Do our customers complain that we're overpriced? No.

Nintendo made the iPod bet, and so far it's paying off for them. Some are inclined to believe it's a fad. I think in a year all the "Nitendo is teh D00|\/|3|)" comments will be silenced.

 

[Nesh]

And you're judging tons of the possible functionality from one game....

I didnt say anything about "possible" functionality.
thats why I said:
"This could change ofcourse since its too early but so far, games havent improved"
Curently this is the present as far as I know....right? RIGHT?

 

[dobwal]

A Ferrari Enzo costs about half a million dollars. They've managed to sell all of them at that price point. Is it overpriced, or affordable as a sports car then?

No, its not overpriced if they create demand at the million dollar price point and sell out. Maybe the reason we fail see eye to eye is because our opinion is based on two different perspectives. I would never buy a million dollar car even if I could afford to do so, but I wouldn't consider the Enzo overpriced since its target audience can well afford it.

The thing is, Nintendo has seen what has happened to the X360 - there was so much demand for the limited supply that a lot of people were willing to pay extra through Ebay auctions just to get one. Sony has not decided to profit from this opportunity with the PS3, even though they could've sold this first 500K units at a price as high as $1000 in retail as well.

The Wii does not cost $250 to make, probably not even $150. But the initial demand is big enough to sell a couple million consoles as long as it's not too expensive. Yes, the laws of supply and demand mean that it's price is not relatively high because they can sell them. But compare the Wii to the other consoles, or ask the average person about it...
It's the same with BluRay players, or I could list dozens of other examples. Initial supply is low, but there are enough AV enthusiasts who will buy every single one even at brutally high prices. The Wii is a more moderate case, but it's still far from being affordable.

If you are a child/teenager with not alot of income or a household that lives below the poverty line then maybe the Wii is not affordable. But for the average potential purchaser of the wii the issue is value and not affordability.

Obviously I've meant that sales would drop lower then usual, and would not pick up, as soon as Nintendo runs out of the early adopters, hardcore enthusiasts or whatever you prefer to call them. The X360 is selling pretty well, even though it's quite beyond the hardcore segment and the price hasn't droped at all. But I'm quite sure that the Wii won't cost $250 a year from now.

Nothing I've seen in terms of the current situation would lead me to share a similar belief. The fact that the Wii launched at a price point that targets a larger part of the market means that Nintendo is not depending on just early adopters or hardcore ethusiast to move its newly released console.

 

[scooby_dooby]

I can't imagine anyone wanting a Wii and not wanting Wii-sports though.

*raises hand*

I want to play Zelda, Mario, Metroid etc, not wii sports thank you very much.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

But affordable and overpriced are not antonyms. The Enzo is quite expensive, so it's definitely not affordable for most. Is it necessarily overpriced? Not really.

Which is exactly what I say about the Wii. It is quite expensive, not affordable for most...

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Anyway, it's pointless to argue about it, my original statement is what stands here: you guys are willing to pay this much for it, so you obviously don't think it's overpriced...

 

[Acert93]

I seriously think that Nintendo will see the sales fall down this spring...

Yes, to $149 and everyone can see how overpriced it was :smile:

I can't imagine anyone wanting a Wii and not wanting Wii-sports though. There's like 2 games that showcase the Wiimote in this 'everyone can play' mode. If you want a Wii and don't care for things like Baseball and Tennis...I question why you're wanting a Wii!

Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Donkey Kong, Pokemon, ... That is a couple dozen first party games right there (e.g. Super Mario Galaxy, Mario Kart, SSBM2, Mario Party, etc). These games would be great even without the Wiimote.

As far as getting a bundled game, Wii + Zelda or Wii + Wiisports? If you are buying the Wii for Wiisports and don't pick up Zelda... that is like picking up an Xbox 360 to play Table Tennis when you could have gotten Gears of War (or Oblivion, or GRAW, or SPA, or PGR3, or Rainbowsix Vega, or...) Nice titles, but surely not up to the level of the better games. Sure, someone may choose TT or Wiisports, but games like Zelda or one of MS's bigger titles are why you make the impulse buy.

But it is all about choice, and that was scoob's point. Considering how shallow Wiisports is, I know it doesn't interest me. I know I would have to buy another title. So do I get a 360 with the game of my choice or do I get a Wii, Wiisports, and buy my game of choice? Counting Wiisports as the equivalent of a full fledged title may work for some, but suggesting it is equivalent is going a little far. Ditto the suggestion by others about wireless controllers--if you don't want one, you can get a cabled one for much cheaper. Ditto WiFi (ethernet anyone?) If you are price conscious, going with EXPENSIVE options and perephrial's isn't realistic. Looking at lowest cost of entry for both platforms is similar, especially if you toss in 1 game of your choice as well as an extra controller for a friend. Sure Wii is a little cheaper, but it also has far fewer games, less committed support from publishers, and is technologically inferior to the extreme. The extra $50 or so gets you quite a bit of value that shows up on the screen immediately in the primary use of the system--games.

But at the end of the day the options are simple: Do you want the evolution of gaming (graphics, sound, interactivity and online, features, media support) or do you want old hardware but a completely new way to interact with games.

Critics will say the former is boring and destroying the industry; and critics will say the later is unproven and worse breaks a number of proven game input mechanics that are very refined and is a horizontal trade (not vertical) and isolates itself too much from the proven evolution of the industry.

So are you a graphics ****** or do you want to hope around all day long in front of your tv?

 

[Graham]

swaaye:

Let me pose a point: Do you think Wii can possibly offer a racing sim with the same quality of PS3 or 360?

I'll just highlight that. As a racing game fan (only on consoles though) that is a real sticking point to me. I just don't see how the wii controller can work, and that 'plastic ring' steering wheel is simply a joke.

Also Nintendo's marketing over here is terrible. There are game adverts, but you'd be damned to find a in store kiosk (360 kiosks are very common) - I certainly haven't. And really, thats what this system above all needs. You need to try before you buy. You cannot go on blind faith when it's this expensive.

At the end of the day:

wii = $500nz
core 360 + xbla unplugged or kameo = $450nz.

That is not 'ultra affordable' compared to the competition. Not even close.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

If you think the average consumer doesn't notice the disparity between Wii and PS3/360 graphics, you are deluding yourself. It's sorta akin to bad visual FX in a movie. My dad, a guy who doesn't play consoles anymore (since SNES really) commented on Wii's graphics limits when he saw the goofy Wii sports look. He said, "so this is supposed to compete with PS3?". It was taken aback by his comment. It surprised me. He was soothed a bit when I told him it was less than half the price.

Wii games may offer some cool future experiences, but that's not a given.Wii Zelda looks like a Cube game, visually, and the remote adds zilch to anything in the game other than fishing. 3rd parties have already put out a lot of junk games for the console (Ubisoft). If I was a consumer watching the machine, I would NOT buy it right now.

It's interesting that you say that, because my wife who is a non-gamer commented in exactly the same way when she saw Wii Sports. I explained to her about how the controller and family fun factor are the main draws for Wii and she could see it, but it did strike me that she actually noticed the loss in graphics fidelity. I didn't think she would.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

*raises hand*

I want to play Zelda, Mario, Metroid etc, not wii sports thank you very much.

Exactly. And that's just the thing: As a regular gamer you will always be starved for games on the Wii, just like we were with the Cube. It's Nintendo's philosophy to only bring out 2 decent games every year.

I'm 50/50 right now on whether or not the Wii is going to be this 20 million unit niche product, or whether it can actually explode into 50+ million in an expanded market. My main reservation with Nintendo's strategy is that most of this new audience (women, grand-dads etc..) they are trying to go after are the type of people that will be interested and claim they would love a Wii, but then can't keep interested beyond a few hours.

For instance, most girl gamers I know claim they are "gamers", but then they can't really stay focused on gaming for more than a couple of hours a week. It's like these surveys you see on the Net all the time where women represent 55% of gamers or some other nonsense and then you find out in the fine print that more women game than men, but that they're playing solitaire for an hour every week and the men are playing Gears of War for 16 hours.

I'm just not sure the demographic that Nintendo is targetting (ie. people who don't care about GTAIV, Halo3, MGS4, FFXIII, Gears of War, GT4, Forza 2, etcc...) is actually that interested in spending much money on gaming.

 

[pc999]

I'm just not sure the demographic that Nintendo is targetting (ie. people who don't care about GTAIV, Halo3, MGS4, FFXIII, Gears of War, GT4, Forza 2, etcc...) is actually that interested in spending much money on gaming.

The question is that they do target that demographic but they also target the demographic of girls and such. They are targeting everybody still this kind of tatic dont allow them to have many games of the same genre but they are indeed trying t get games of every genre.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

I don't see it. Where are the shooters, the JRPGs, the driving sims, the sandbox games for Wii? I don't see anything on the horizon like that for Wii. To me the Wii is a way to have some Samba de Amigo, Guitar Hero, Donkey Konga type experiences for a more reasonable price than buying a half-dozen different peripherals. That's a good investment for $150, but not that great for $250 IMO. It'll never be my meat and potatoes system, so I can't justify getting it until there are a half-dozen great experiences to be had for $150 + cost of games. How can anyone get excited about playing Red Steel when they could be playing Call of Duty 3 with amazing graphics on the X360 instead?

 

[Readykilowatt]

I don't see it. Where are the shooters, the JRPGs, the driving sims, the sandbox games for Wii? I don't see anything on the horizon like that for Wii. To me the Wii is a way to have some Samba de Amigo, Guitar Hero, Donkey Konga type experiences for a more reasonable price than buying a half-dozen different peripherals. That's a good investment for $150, but not that great for $250 IMO. It'll never be my meat and potatoes system, so I can't justify getting it until there are a half-dozen great experiences to be had for $150 + cost of games. How can anyone get excited about playing Red Steel when they could be playing Call of Duty 3 with amazing graphics on the X360 instead?

If I was even remotely interested in COD3, I'd rather play it on the PS3.

 

[Nesh]

how come? Offers similar visuals with motion sensing?

 

[patsu]

Anyway, it's pointless to argue about it, my original statement is what stands here: you guys are willing to pay this much for it, so you obviously don't think it's overpriced...

Laa-Yosh, I saw a few of your posts elaborating why Wii is overpriced. They are not wrong per se. But here're just a few more points for your reference.

Price is generally determined based on (at least) the following factors:
* Target segment
* Business strategy
* (Perceived) Value and utility
* Reference price (e.g., comparing to competing products)
* Supply + Demand
* Cost (just to prevent losing money).

I want to say:

* Demography-wise, many casuals are not interested in HD consoles in the first place. So comparing Wii price with them may be irrelevant.

* Business strategy wise, Nintendo needs to make money from the console in order to compete with Gorillas in the long haul.

* Compared to PS3 and Xbox 360, Wii seems better for family fun. In my case, all my family members can enjoy Wii.

* Reference price, Wii is something unique (fad or no fad). If the *target audience* cannot find an equivalent replacement, they will understand the premium (whether they agree with the premium is a separate question).

Overall, marketing folks will try to set a *fair* price for the consumers to bite.

 

[swaaye]

I don't see it. Where are the shooters, the JRPGs, the driving sims, the sandbox games for Wii? I don't see anything on the horizon like that for Wii. To me the Wii is a way to have some Samba de Amigo, Guitar Hero, Donkey Konga type experiences for a more reasonable price than buying a half-dozen different peripherals. That's a good investment for $150, but not that great for $250 IMO. It'll never be my meat and potatoes system, so I can't justify getting it until there are a half-dozen great experiences to be had for $150 + cost of games. How can anyone get excited about playing Red Steel when they could be playing Call of Duty 3 with amazing graphics on the X360 instead?

Red Steel was supposed to offer really cool new controls. It didn't, for the most part. It's a barely passable game in actuality. If it had delivered what everyone dreamed, it would have definitely offered a great reason to want Wii.

So far Wii's controls are still unproven. None of the games, even Wii Sports, delivers a truly amazing new control experience. Wii Sports actually might be a good example of serious limits to the controller. The actions performed in Zelda and Wii Boxing, for example, are the same in that they are just button combos activated by preset movements. It's not 1:1 mapping at all. It's gimmicky. 1:1 only seems to happen with simple movement. Fishing in Zelda and bowling/baseball/tennis (sorta) in Wii Sports.

I agree that I think Wii will end up in a niche like Cube did. Few good 3rd party games but lots of good 1st party stuff (if Nintendo games are your thing that is). I am disappointed by the obvious voids in the machine's lineup. I actually am regretting buying it. Especially if it drops $50 so quickly, as rumored. Zelda isn't doing much for me, honestly, and it is the only quality title out.

how come? Offers similar visuals with motion sensing?

I imagine simply because CoD3 360 looks phenomenally better.