Wii Sales: Less Than Meets the Eye

[Natoma]

Nesh, you do realize that most consumers out there, yes even "hardcore" gamers, don't visit online forums?

We are the exception, not the rule. You can't exactly judge gaming as a whole, or even "hardcore" gamers, by internet polls.

Frankly I think people are holding the Wii to unfair standards. Just because it's selling well doesn't mean it's supposed to have a fully mature library only 6 months after launching, for example.

 

[Natoma]

Maybe 99% of the wii games are sold based on how cute the cover picture is, rather than the quality of the game?

Because it certainly seems that, considering the amount of sub-par games that must be selling well based on the software attachment ratio's we are getting (there is what, 1 game with a 90+ score, Zelda, and until recently, there was 1 game with a 80+ score, going by gamerrankings).

I'm not sure if my memory is correct, but didn't Red Steel sell close to 1 million??

Uhm, doesn't that translate to every console out there? Why in the world does every derivative of Madden sell so ridiculously well every year while games like Okami get shut out?

As I said in my last post, unfair standards.

 

[Nesh]

Nesh, you do realize that most consumers out there, yes even "hardcore" gamers, don't visit online forums?

We are the exception, not the rule. You can't exactly judge gaming as a whole, or even "hardcore" gamers, by internet polls.

Frankly I think people are holding the Wii to unfair standards. Just because it's selling well doesn't mean it's supposed to have a fully mature library only 6 months after launching, for example.

I cant disagree with you. I was using only the internet forums (unserious and serious ones) example as an index of trend. Or as a small sample if you will.

The beyond3d forums are interesting as an indicator atleast of the changes in our preferences since Wii came out.

Besides thats all we ve got in numbers.

In the outside world the sample we can get from personal experiences is even smaller.

I think we need software sales to see what games are most preferable on Wii.

 

[Nesh]

Uhm, doesn't that translate to every console out there? Why in the world does every derivative of Madden sell so ridiculously well every year while games like Okami get shut out?

As I said in my last post, unfair standards.

Well depends what games you are comparing. Some sports games have stable fans because they are fans of the sports events themselves.

Other games sell because of popularity (hi Spongebob). Excluding these kind of games what are the other games that sell great on Wii?

Although all consoles sell millions of crap games, what makes these different from Wii is that they also have sold many millions of many specific great games too, and it was these games that kind of pushed these consoles over to casuals who later bought the crap games. With other words system sellers were considered the AAA titles. These hardware sales farther sold other crap games.

We always seemed to judge a console from its AAA games and we always insisted that a console needs such titles to sell. Wii is the first console that gets away with it.

The question isnt why these games sell. The question is what games sell the console and increase its popularity? It cant be the crap game or the Madden, or the NFS, or Cars, or Spongebob, or Happy Feet even if they do sell millions on it.

It should be something else

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

We always seemed to judge a console from its AAA games and we always insisted that a console needs such titles to sell. Wii is the first console that gets away with it.

I disagree. Just about any console had/has to put up with crap titels in its first 6 - 12 months and a handfull of half decent games and that never really stopped any console from selling. Remember ps2? that didnt have a decent game for god knows how long when it launched and still it sold very well even though Dreamcast had alot more and better games at the time and better gfx and probably cheaper too.

 

[Nesh]

I disagree. Just about any console had/has to put up with crap titels in its first 6 - 12 months and a handfull of half decent games and that never really stopped any console from selling. Remember ps2? that didnt have a decent game for god knows how long when it launched and still it sold very well even though Dreamcast had alot more and better games at the time and better gfx and probably cheaper too.

You ignore one important factor. Expectations of AAA titles.

PS2 didnt sell because of the mediocre games that came on it at launch.

It sold great because people knew the next Tekken, the next Final Fantasy, the next GT, the next MGS, the next Crash (ended up very bad though), the next Wipeout, the next...well the next everything that was on the PS1 only better (Accordint to expectations) wqas going to come to the PS2. And the fact that the PS2 was the next Playstation gave extra information (true or false) that it would also have huge support and will also have great chances of succession.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Agree. Though you could argue that you have the usuall bunch of AAA titels from nintendo anyway. So its not like you buy a Wii and dont know what you'll end up with. Also I think the amount of licence crap you have on the shelves will sell you more than the potential AAA titels coming out in 1 year time at best. Though that wont last a console for 5 years ofcourse but I think it definitly helps in the first 6 - 12 months when everyone is basically waiting atleast a year for the AAA titels to come out.

 

[Todd33]

Uhm, doesn't that translate to every console out there? Why in the world does every derivative of Madden sell so ridiculously well every year while games like Okami get shut out?

As I said in my last post, unfair standards.

Everyone knows Madden, they know what they are getting, they know the controls, etc. Ask Joe Blow off the street what an "Okami" is they will shrug. Selling is part marketing and Madden has name brand recognition and huge marketing campaign. Okami had good word of mouth from like dozens of people, that's not enough.

Being "better" doesn't mean it will sell, ask Mr. Microbrewer why Budweiser sells so much.

The Wii hype train won't go to far without real, full length quality games - not just last gen wii-ports and rushed 3rd party games.

 

[MoeStooge]

This is an interesting thread.

I am more or less a hardcore gamer- PC first, XB360 second. I've always thought the Wii was a cool product but never really had a compelling reason to get one until I spent several hours playing Wii sports with friends at a party. Lately, I've been thinking about getting one but have noticed how poorly reviewed most of the games are so far. Plus, the previews of newer games aren't that exciting either.

After enjoying the "party-friendly" aspects of the system and discovering just how well the controller works, I expected that there would be a lot of cool games coming out. I expected unique games that took advantage of the controller and provided a gameplay experience that was more interactive than what you can get on the other systems. I don't see that yet. So I am probably going to buy one just for Wii sports and satisfy the majority of my gaming needs on the PC or the 360.

Nintendo really needs to focus their efforts on the strengths of the system. Don't give me games or types of games that I can play on another system with better graphics. Give me brand new experiences.

 

[Nesh]

Agree. Though you could argue that you have the usuall bunch of AAA titels from nintendo anyway. So its not like you buy a Wii and dont know what you'll end up with. Also I think the amount of licence crap you have on the shelves will sell you more than the potential AAA titels coming out in 1 year time at best. Though that wont last a console for 5 years ofcourse but I think it definitly helps in the first 6 - 12 months when everyone is basically waiting atleast a year for the AAA titels to come out.

Well the weird thing is that people were also expecting for the usual Nintendo AAA titles on GC yet the price, development easiness and power didnt help to even sell half as much as the Wii, Not even the crap games. Nintendo specific games werent as broadly attractive or owned on GC to suggest that so many millions would buy Wii specifically for those games and the crap games always were there on GC too.

What happened so suddenly?

Also we may know what games are coming to it. Do the so many millions who bought it know?

Or have they bought it just for the controller idea?

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Well the weird thing is that people were also expecting for the usual Nintendo AAA titles on GC yet the price, development easiness and power didnt help to even sell half as much as the Wii, Not even the crap games. Nintendo specific games werent as broadly attractive or owned on GC to suggest that so many millions would buy Wii specifically for those games and the crap games always were there on GC too.

What happened so suddenly?

Also we may know what games are coming to it. Do the so many millions who bought it know?

Or have they bought it just for the controller idea?

GC itself didnt really have a broad appeal so that probably is the reason why they didnt sell so much. But the nintendo titels didnt sold bad even though for example the Mario games wernt the greatest in the series (though that is more of a exeption than a rule). GC had everything against it, a purple kiddie game box as the average joe views it. With Wii nintendo gave themselves a appleish image. Slick looking console and a controller wich made it to a awfull lot of general public tv shows wich hyped it. Now nintendo just needs to make good AAA games.

 

[Natoma]

Everyone knows Madden, they know what they are getting, they know the controls, etc. Ask Joe Blow off the street what an "Okami" is they will shrug. Selling is part marketing and Madden has name brand recognition and huge marketing campaign. Okami had good word of mouth from like dozens of people, that's not enough.

Being "better" doesn't mean it will sell, ask Mr. Microbrewer why Budweiser sells so much.

The Wii hype train won't go to far without real, full length quality games - not just last gen wii-ports and rushed 3rd party games.

Which is precisely the point of the last sentence of that post. You're applying an unfair standard to the Wii as if it alone has to deal with these issues. Every console has to meet the marks that you've laid out otherwise they fail over the long run.

What this thread is focusing on in general are the hurdles that every console faces. Wii is no different even though its sales rate is literally unprecedented for such a young system.

 

[Todd33]

Which is precisely the point of the last sentence of that post. You're applying an unfair standard to the Wii as if it alone has to deal with these issues. Every console has to meet the marks that you've laid out otherwise they fail over the long run.

What this thread is focusing on in general are the hurdles that every console faces. Wii is no different even though its sales rate is literally unprecedented for such a young system.

But the Wii is different. The 360, PC and PS3 will have many shared cross platform games. These games make up the bread and butter of the systems. They will then have 1st and 2nd party games to distinguish themselves. How many games will port from the 360, PC or PS3 to the Wii? How long are PS2 and Xbox games ported to the Wii with slapped on Wii controls going to continue? Sure the 360 and PS3 have bad ports, but at least they are ports of new games people want (like Madden!), who wants another bad Far Cry port?

 

[Natoma]

But the Wii is different. The 360, PC and PS3 will have many shared cross platform games. These games make up the bread and butter of the systems. They will then have 1st and 2nd party games to distinguish themselves. How many games will port from the 360, PC or PS3 to the Wii? How long are PS2 and Xbox games ported to the Wii with slapped on Wii controls going to continue? Sure the 360 and PS3 have bad ports, but at least they are ports of new games people want (like Madden!), who wants another bad Far Cry port?

How long is that going to take Todd33? How long will it be before the PS3 has games to distinguish it from the 360 or PC? How long was it before the 360 had games to distinguish it from the PC?

Again, you're asking the same questions that plague every new console. And just fyi, Wii Madden was actually a great game according to nearly every review. The new controls added a flawless dimension of gameplay that made it stand head and shoulders above the other versions. So, can't exactly toss that one into the shovelware port category.

But yes, it is a problem when developers choose to use PSP and PS2 assets for Wii games. That's just ridiculous. Even there, however, most 1st gen games on any console don't look much better than the best of the prior gen. Never have.

So again, you're applying a different standard to the Wii when there really shouldn't be one.

 

[tongue_of_colicab]

Wii isnt a system you should buy for ports. Wii is a system you buy for the advantages Wii has to offer. Funny you mention madden as a ps3 port people want as the Wii versions is regared as the best version. Yes Wii wont be the platform you want to have for the MP titels that also come out on ps3 and x360 but it will be up to devs and sales for how bad its going to be. Madden shows a multiplatform title doesnt have to be bad on Wii and actually can be better so it will be up to devs weater they want to spend time in making a good version of the Wii multiplatform version of a game or not.

 

[Todd33]

How long is that going to take Todd33? How long will it be before the PS3 has games to distinguish it from the 360 or PC? How long was it before the 360 had games to distinguish it from the PC?

Again, you're asking the same questions that plague every new console. And just fyi, Wii Madden was actually a great game according to nearly every review. The new controls added a flawless dimension of gameplay that made it stand head and shoulders above the other versions. So, can't exactly toss that one into the shovelware port category.

But yes, it is a problem when developers choose to use PSP and PS2 assets for Wii games. That's just ridiculous. Even there, however, most 1st gen games on any console don't look much better than the best of the prior gen. Never have.

So again, you're applying a different standard to the Wii when there really shouldn't be one.

I guess you missed my point. Wii will have Nintendo 1st party games, just like the GC. Will it get the "bread and butter" games from other companies? Will they be two year old PS2 or Xbox games with new controls?

If you take all non-exclusive 1st or 2nd party games from the 360 and PS3 you have a very limited range of games. People want those cross platform Madden-like games. Who is going to spend the time and resources to make a game like Oblivion on the Wii?

You can't have it both ways by saying Wii is special and unique then say people are applying a different standard to it.

 

[Nesh]

GC itself didnt really have a broad appeal so that probably is the reason why they didnt sell so much. But the nintendo titels didnt sold bad even though for example the Mario games wernt the greatest in the series (though that is more of a exeption than a rule). GC had everything against it, a purple kiddie game box as the average joe views it. With Wii nintendo gave themselves a appleish image. Slick looking console and a controller wich made it to a awfull lot of general public tv shows wich hyped it. Now nintendo just needs to make good AAA games.

agreed. I only hope it doesnt get stuck with the crap games just because games sell on it anyways

I d love to see prober dedication from devs, because currently it is handled like a second class console for easy cash. Wii should bring new games and experiences but with quality not different games for the sakes of being "different" only

 

[Natoma]

I guess you missed my point. Wii will have Nintendo 1st party games, just like the GC. Will it get the "bread and butter" games from other companies? Will they be two year old PS2 or Xbox games with new controls?

If you take all non-exclusive 1st or 2nd party games from the 360 and PS3 you have a very limited range of games. People want those cross platform Madden-like games. Who is going to spend the time and resources to make a game like Oblivion on the Wii?

I mentioned Madden as an example of a cross platform title that was actually better than its brethren. tongue_of_colicab mentioned the same thing.

Godfather Blackhand Edition is another one.

You can't have it both ways by saying Wii is special and unique then say people are applying a different standard to it.

Who said Wii is special and unique outside of the sales its racking up?

 

[Natoma]

agreed. I only hope it doesnt get stuck with the crap games just because games sell on it anyways

I d love to see prober dedication from devs, because currently it is handled like a second class console for easy cash. Wii should bring new games and experiences but with quality not different games for the sakes of being "different" only

Miyamoto spoke out against Developers doing just that. He brought up the point that developers have created the problem of poor sales on Nintendo consoles themselves. When Developers use their 3rd and 4th string teams to produce games for Nintendo consoles, they're going up against the 1st and 2nd string Nintendo teams all the time.

That's why their titles haven't sold all that well in the last couple of generations. If they would dedicate their 1st and 2nd string teams to bringing quality games out, people would buy them.

For a Nintendo platform more than any other, the "hardcore" nintendo fan base is used to high quality N' games, and buys those. Put out crap, and that fan base is conditioned to ignore it.

 

[Todd33]

For a Nintendo platform more than any other, the "hardcore" nintendo fan base is used to high quality N' games, and buys those. Put out crap, and that fan base is conditioned to ignore it.

That is sig worthy!