What do you think about the killzone trailer?

[DuckThor Evil]

CGI, not going to look the same... Maybe it will be close enough that people can still fight over this matter till the end of space and time.

 

[Karamazov]

well MGS4 was running real time on maybe a more advanced dev kit, and still it was not looking as good as the killzone trailer, though kojima team is very talented, so.... i don't think it will look the same ingame, but we may see games that are near this quality in a few years on ps3.

 

[Guilty Bystander]

well MGS4 was running real time on maybe a more advanced dev kit, and still it was not looking as good as the killzone trailer, though kojima team is very talented, so.... i don't think it will look the same ingame, but we may see games that are near this quality in a few years on ps3.

Nope MGS4 was using the Alpha kit with just the 6800 Ultra's SLI, 256MB of Memory (total), no Flex-I/O (just some lame PCI-E 4x bus) and 2,4GHz 4 SPE Cell.

 

[3roxor]

Eh, I chose CGI/same. But I think same as in "playing the difference won't be perceptibly different" than it'll look as good technically. I think by the time its released they'll have been able to fake the majority of details/effects into something that looks nearly as good.
These are my two favourite shots, the geometry thrown around is just stunning:

If they do fake that, due to some intelligent mapping for example, I'll be mighty pleased. This was my vision for "next-gen" before the MTV X360 thing.

Funny thing is that if you go to their website you will see (almost) the exact same pic you posted. Seems like this company a) likes to fool people b) knows what it can deliver. Atleast they aren't hiding for their CGI-movie that's for sure. We will see the end result soon enough (I hope)

 

[Laa-Yosh]

You're reffering to that guy who's 'friend' works at Axis animation?
Then I would want to ask you why the developer is so hyped about that they made it:
"It's been an amazing reception, the rush you get from seeing your own stuff on the big screen like that, and then the reaction to it, it's a big rush, I'm really happy about it."

"We started working on it in late November, and only finished it three days before the show, at the very, very last moment!"

But, of course, I guess you'd rather trust that guys 'friend'.
Or maybe you're talking about something else?

Nesh, it's quite obvious it wasn't gameplay or realtime, and if you don't know then you don't know and if you don't care, then you don't care!

So, you say that my friend whom I've known for many years has lied to me, and to others as well?

 

[weaksauce]

So, you say that my friend whom I've known for many years has lied to me, and to others as well?

I'm saying that you're lying.
No but seriously, I'm having a hard time believing that.

Oh well then, could you just ask him then why Axis animations did it and not guerilla? Seems awkward that guerilla didn't make it. It's supposed to be a representation of their game, they're supposed to use in-game assets and they're the ones knowing about the "done to specification" specs.
If it was just an intro movie, not presented in that way of trying to fool you, then I'd belive Axis made it.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

No but seriously, I'm having a hard time believing that.

Why? Even simple logic points to it being CGI - just compare it with anything else (well, apart from Motorstorm...) we've seen from the nextgen games so far. Leading development studios like Konami, Epic, Ubi, EA, Ninja Theory etc. have failed to present anything comparable to this small animation so far. So are they all that much worse at graphics than Guerilla - or is there a fundamental difference between their stuff and this?

Oh well then, could you just ask him then why Axis animations did it and not guerilla? Seems awkward that guerilla didn't make it. It's supposed to be a representation of their game, they're supposed to use in-game assets and they're the ones knowing about the "done to specification" specs.

Axis did it, with all assets created by them, but in a close cooperation with Guerilla (for example the developers did the directing on the movie and kept asking for changes until the last few days).
Assets weren't done to any spec either, although the source models used for the normal map extraction could be pretty similar to these.

If it was just an intro movie, not presented in that way of trying to fool you, then I'd belive Axis made it.

Perhaps Sony reconsidered calling it a CGI intro, after seeing the crazy reacton and the public opinion that PS3 will pwn the X360?

 

[weaksauce]

Why? Even simple logic points to it being CGI - just compare it with anything else (well, apart from Motorstorm...) we've seen from the nextgen games so far. Leading development studios like Konami, Epic, Ubi, EA, Ninja Theory etc. have failed to present anything comparable to this small animation so far. So are they all that much worse at graphics than Guerilla - or is there a fundamental difference between their stuff and this?



Axis did it, with all assets created by them, but in a close cooperation with Guerilla (for example the developers did the directing on the movie and kept asking for changes until the last few days).
Assets weren't done to any spec either, although the source models used for the normal map extraction could be pretty similar to these.



Perhaps Sony reconsidered calling it a CGI intro, after seeing the crazy reacton and the public opinion that PS3 will pwn the X360?

Uhm, Heavenly sword is extremly close if not better, depends on how you see it.
http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/614/614802/heavenly-sword-20050516074026605.jpg
http://www.filerushnews.com/images/album196/aae.jpg
http://www.filerushnews.com/gallery/d/27148-4/aad.jpg

And it's coming from a prototype (8months) running at 5-20 fps in 1080p. And not multithreaded if I remember right. Also, the developer is new to the hardware, right? They developed to xbox earlier. And if you want to belive the Unreal tournament porter, he's saying that if you know ps2 there isn't much to learn about ps3. So now Guerilla also has a good experience in it.

To me, it seems like a great waste of time if guerilla (well not really, what were they doing?) spent six months on a cgi trailer ("directing), not doing any game-assets or any coding.

Also, why were there so many glithces? They spent half a year on it! Two minutes!

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Uhm, Heavenly sword is extremly close if not better, depends on how you see it.

Well, it looks very different to me... Pretty pretty cool for a realtime game, but still far from offline CG.

To me, it seems like a great waste of time if guerilla (well not really, what were they doing?) spent six months on a cgi trailer ("directing), not doing any game-assets or any coding.

You've answered your own question - while Axis has been working on the trailer, Guerilla has been working on the actual game.

Also, why were there so many glithces? They spent half a year on it! Two minutes!

We've spent a lot of time on our CGI work as well, and I could list many glitches in there just as well...

 

[weaksauce]

Well, it looks very different to me... Pretty pretty cool for a realtime game, but still far from offline CG.



You've answered your own question - while Axis has been working on the trailer, Guerilla has been working on the actual game.



We've spent a lot of time on our CGI work as well, and I could list many glitches in there just as well...

Well, why didn't they make the trailer look more CGI? I mean it looks to have lots of game assets and all things aren't "perfectly" modeled.

What's the difference between killzone/hs? It looks to have most of the same effects, but yeah they don't have as detailed characters but they have waay more of them. And you're saying it yourself it was realtime, some parts yeah, and you know on what hardware.

What work are you doing? What glitches and why not fix them? The first guy plopping onto the spaceship is very easy to spot, they can't have missed that.

 

[cam]

Didn’t the whole axis animation rumour come about because some of the killzone stuff is on there web site?

http://www.axisanimation.com/reel_game_killz_intro.htm

But as they plainly say its for the original killzone on the ps2.

I voted for sped up, not going to look the same – i dont think it will be as fluid.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Well, why didn't they make the trailer look more CGI? I mean it looks to have lots of game assets and all things aren't "perfectly" modeled.

I don't exactly get you here. This is considered to be quite above the average game CGI production levels, and besides, they had a small team and not too much time.

What's the difference between killzone/hs? It looks to have most of the same effects, but yeah they don't have as detailed characters but they have waay more of them.

We've been through this a zillion times here. Search for my posts if you're interested.

What work are you doing?

www.digicpictures.com

What glitches and why not fix them? The first guy plopping onto the spaceship is very easy to spot, they can't have missed that.

Deadlines are quite the killer in the CG industry as well. We all are very well aware of the glitches in our work but there's a limited time to fix them and you have to prioritize. Or sometimes it's about the client not willing to pay for something that did not fit into the production time because he asked for too many changes during the job.


Anyway, I'm not going to get into any more arguments about this here - it is obvious that you just won't let yourself to be convinced.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Didn’t the whole axis animation rumour come about because some of the killzone stuff is on there web site?

No. It's rather the other way around, the fact that Axis has done work for Guerilla before supports the fact that they've done it again.

 

[mckmas8808]

So, you say that my friend whom I've known for many years has lied to me, and to others as well?

Possibly so. Taking what Guerrilla's devs have said about their own work why not?

 

[cam]

well, it doesn’t really "support" much does it? but im willing to admit i could be wrong in my thinking.

But a serious question if i may, if it was off-time rendered, is pop in/up possible? i thought you had to load in all asset’s first then render them all to screen.

 

[mckmas8808]

Assets weren't done to any spec either, although the source models used for the normal map extraction could be pretty similar to these.

Possible future damage control? Hmmm....

No seriously I do have a real question. Do you think it is possible that the real game could look as good as the "CGI" video?

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Possibly so. Taking what Guerrilla's devs have said about their own work why not?

That's it - now either you present a source where anyone from Guerilla or Sony explicitely denies that the trailer is CGI, or apologize here for calling the guy a liar.

 

[mckmas8808]

That's it - now either you present a source where anyone from Guerilla or Sony explicitely denies that the trailer is CGI, or apologize here for calling the guy a liar.

I said possibly. I don't know at all. But the question that I would like to know is do you think the real game will look like the video?

 

[Laa-Yosh]

But a serious question if i may, if it was off-time rendered, is pop in/up possible? i thought you had to load in all asset’s first then render them all to screen.

Of course you don't. Most studios tend to work with scenes that are far too complex to be rendered in a whole, everything is split up into several layers, rendered seperately, and then composited back together in a digital compositing program. Like, sky dome/plane, background, foreground, background characters, hero character 1, 2, smoke, sparks, flying debris etc etc etc.
This allows individual postprocessing and adjustment for each component, and also makes it possible to re-render only what you need so that you can do it faster (on an average, you'll render out everything from 2 to 20 times during a production).

The glitch you see is most likely a simple human error - someone made a mistake when setting the frame range for one of the characters' layers, either in the 3D app or in the compositing package. We're having a lot of these, and many other little problems, that take a lot of time to sort out; and that's why we render out everything multiple times . Hasn't anyone seen such goofs from movie VFX shots, like when Gollum's eyes move out of his head, on the LOTR:TTT extended DVD?

 

[AlNom]

Is all rendering done at low resolution before the absolute final cut of the CG piece?

Hasn't anyone seen such goofs from movie VFX shots, like when Gollum's eyes move out of his head, on the LOTR:TTT extended DVD?

Saaay what??