What do you think about the killzone trailer?

[inefficient]

Not only do I sincerely hope the final product is on par with the e3 video visually. If the ps3 is incapable of producing images at least this good, I may drop out of gaming all together.

 

[London Geezer]

Not only do I sincerely hope the final product is on par with the e3 video visually. If the ps3 is incapable of producing images at least this good, I may drop out of gaming all together.

Gosh... That reminds me of Cher "i'm never gonna tour again"... then the following year there she was with a new hip and 4 ribs less, jumping around on stage with huge feathers headpieces on her head!!!

 

[weaksauce]

Thanks, I'll have a look.

I'd just like to add that people seem to be arguing semantics, without defining CG, realtime, pre-rendered, FMV, target render etc. etc...IIRC, Heavenly Sword had this blurry definition too...

You really haven't seen the glitches? There's lots of them. Some others:
In the beginning a guy is off the ship, but then pops onto it. Same time as the gun.
When the helghast dude gets nocked off the stairs, his foot goes through the rail.
Also you can se some more clipping else where, som guys bag goes through his leg and such. Man I even think the players finger goes through the gun when he reloads


But this was dscussed in the thread I think. Someone gave an answer that they rendered in layers that could get off when put together or something.

About what Nicked talked about I think that could be because of layers. The helghast comes into view and is like a meter away from his seat in the truck, on the same level and position that he would be in if he was on the truck or car or whatever it is.
I think the driver is a bit off too.

But I don't know.

 

[j^aws]

Not sure if Nicked is talking about this, but at the beginning of the video, when the guys are still on the ship, there is a gun that "pops" behind one of the guys.

I still can't see any, which video are you looking at and what 'time'?

I agree, it's all semantics. But i think that what's important is that, whether it was made on Lightwave or Maya, or using devkits running at 5fps then glued together (like HS), the video was NOT real-time.

SubD made a claim that they are framebuffer grabs because of these 'artifacts'. I'd like that backed up, 'coz Heavenly sword had these 'artifacts', IIRC, which suggested they were indeed framebuffer grabs with Deano to back the claim up. He also stated that some post proccesing effects were added to the frames also.

If it can be shown/ proved that the KZ trailer has in-engine framebuffer grabs, and sped up with some post-processing, then I 'd clasiify it with Heavenly Sword...whatever that is!

It was NOT like the realtime MGS4 demo Kojima demonstrated moving the camera, zooming in and out and changing variables. It was NOT real-time like all games we can buy today in the shops. It was a video, a series of frames, with frame after frame of pre-recorded footage. Whether those frames were done with Maya, with a devkit, with bloody watercolours, it doesn't matter.

I'd classify MGS4, as realtime, in-engine, non-gameplay footage. By definition, what you saw was 'framebuffer' grabs running at realtime. The important definition here, is that are there 'framebuffer' grabs in KZ, not whether it was realtime or not, the same with HS...

 

[Nicked]

Not sure if Nicked is talking about this, but at the beginning of the video, when the guys are still on the ship, there is a gun that "pops" behind one of the guys.

Nah I'm talking about the following, I didn't make this someone else did (Hardknock might recognise its source...) but eh:
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/4650/kz2a8vo9za.gif (~970k)

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Damnit, people, CGI is even more prone to human errors than an engine demo, because everything has to be done by hand... It's totally stupid to bring up such things as proof of the footage being realtime, while there are zillions of reasons that obviously make it CG, and they've been discussed to death in several other threads...

 

[weaksauce]

Nah I'm talking about the following, I didn't make this someone else did (Hardknock might recognise its source...) but eh:
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/4650/kz2a8vo9za.gif (~970k)

Get a better quality vid!

But does the gunner come in from the left, or is it the driver that pops in there?

I can post screen of some other glitches later.

 

[Nicked]

Get a better quality vid!

But does the gunner come in from the left, or is it the driver that pops in there?

I can post screen of some other glitches later.

Like I said its not mine!
It looks like he comes in from the left, I'm not too sure.
Theres meant to be heaps of glitches in the video, theres supposedly a scene where the bridge loads (~32seconds in), all the other stuff you guys posted, but yeah, like Laa-Yosh said...

 

[London Geezer]

I'd classify MGS4, as realtime, in-engine, non-gameplay footage. By definition, what you saw was 'framebuffer' grabs running at realtime. The important definition here, is that are there 'framebuffer' grabs in KZ, not whether it was realtime or not, the same with HS...

With enough memory, those "framebuffer" grabs could be made on a PS1 too then! A frame ever 5 hours or so (shooting a number obviously) then paste them all together and run it a 30fps, and the Killzone can be done on PS1?

If Guerilla say the video was not realtime, but they have proof in studio that "other things" they're working on look comparable, in REALTIME, to the NON-REALTIME Killzone video, i don't know what's there to complain.

Isn't CGI the construction of frames with computer programs to be the later on worked on and glued together to run at 24/30fps? If those frames are done with Maya or with some engine running on a devkit and take more than 0.04 seconds to render (minimum for 30fps - realtime - but i wouldn't call 5fps realtime either as it's useless for games), what's the difference?

*rethorical question obviously*

 

[j^aws]

Damnit, people, CGI is even more prone to human errors than an engine demo, because everything has to be done by hand... It's totally stupid to bring up such things as proof of the footage being realtime, while there are zillions of reasons that obviously make it CG, and they've been discussed to death in several other threads...

Well that's a good a enough reason for me. I haven't really followed all these 'type' of threads but SubD made alot of claims that I haven't seen any evidence for...

 

[fireshot]

Damnit, people, CGI is even more prone to human errors than an engine demo, because everything has to be done by hand... It's totally stupid to bring up such things as proof of the footage being realtime, while there are zillions of reasons that obviously make it CG, and they've been discussed to death in several other threads...

do you know of any techniqes that fake CGI quality processing in RT? never seen RT lighting as good as the footage.

 

[Gollum]

How someone can interpret meshes suddenly popping in and out of sight or passing through other geometry as proof of in-game graphics is beyond me. Please get a clue! This stuff happens all the time in CGI, anybody with some working experience in animation can tell you that.

Oh wait, they already have! Pretty much everybody on this board, who I know to have working experience in the CG industry and bothered to participate in these threads, has done so, over and over again! But instead of listening to good advice and drop the issue, all we get is more insane bickering and people clinging to the slightest glimpse of false proof they can see.

Why? How is it possible to be so insecure and defenisive over a piece of soft- and hardware that doesn't even exist yet?

 

[j^aws]

With enough memory, those "framebuffer" grabs could be made on a PS1 too then! A frame ever 5 hours or so (shooting a number obviously) then paste them all together and run it a 30fps, and the Killzone can be done on PS1?

Now you're playing with semantics!

I meant framebuffer grabs from an in-engine and running on whatever early build PS3 kits they had with whatever GPU. Not 'software' rendering!

If Guerilla say the video was not realtime, but they have proof in studio that "other things" they're working on look comparable, in REALTIME, to the NON-REALTIME Killzone video, i don't know what's there to complain.

I'm not complaining, just highlighting the 'iffy' non-defined terms, aka semantics that are being argued!

Isn't CGI the construction of frames with computer programs to be the later on worked on and glued together to run at 24/30fps? If those frames are done with Maya or with some engine running on a devkit and take more than 0.04 seconds to render (minimum for 30fps - realtime - but i wouldn't call 5fps realtime either as it's useless for games), what's the difference?

*rethorical question obviously*

You're missing my point. See above of what I mean by a frame buffer grab. If the grab is generated by *code* running on CELL and whatever GPU, shaders etc, then sped up, it's different. I'm trying to gauge how closely the wokflow is to the HS clip...