What do you see the next gen consoles doing Graphicly?

[Paul]

It was designed. The design is finished.

Meaning? They design it then it takes time to act on the plan. We don't even know if the Patent is the final design, hell what you see in the patent could be 10X less than the final product.[/list]

Its a 2002 chip slated to be produced in 2006.

A 2002 chip that can do 1Tflops, and the total system delivering most likely 1.5Tflops total. Your point being? CPU wise, microsoft nor nintendo can match what Cell will bring that's a given.

 

[marconelly!]

It will allways be a 2001 tech.

That's just silly thinking. It's 2001 *design*. Tech was not there to make it, or it simply wasn't financially viable (either way, it makes absolutely no difference, as otherwise one could say tech of the past is better than tech of today, as supercomputers made few years ago are still unmatched by cheap desktop computers)

When you know what tech is going to be available some time in the future (and you can reasonably predict that) you can design FOR the future, and that is what everyone is doing.

If one would go by your logic, fusion reactors would already be really old technology (because we perfectly know how they should work, although we apparently have no means of actually building them), and our energy problems would be a thing of the past!

 

[Paul]

Hell I can make a design in my head that calls for 10Tflops right now in 2003, to be released 2008, does that mean it's outdated when 2008 comes around?

Cell is a 2002 IDEA, much like going into space was an idea for thousands of years until it actually happened. It takes time to act on the idea.

 

[jvd]

Hell I can make a design in my head that calls for 10Tflops right now in 2003, to be released 2008, does that mean it's outdated when 2008 comes around?

I'm sure it would be. All i would need to do is keep adding cell chips together and i would get past 10tflops. The only problem lies in weather your able to use current tech to make the chip. I'm sure that the cell chip is possible on .9 micron and that is avalible to intel at the moment.

 

[Paul]

A 10Tflops CPU outdated in 2008?

Im not talking about adding tons of cell's together, im talking about a new architecture.

Im doubting your average desktop CPU will be able to do 1Tflop with the way things are going now let alone 10.

 

[jvd]

A 10Tflops CPU outdated in 2008?

Im not talking about adding tons of cell's together, im talking about a new architecture.

Im doubting your average desktop CPU will be able to do 1Tflop with the way things are going now let alone 10.

Well paul lets see. Right now in 2002 we have plans for a chip to come out around 2005 and offer 1tflop. So would it be that far fecthed that in 3 years we increase the performance by 10 fold ? Now how about just a brand new chip that is designed in 2005 to take advantage of all the break throughs that happen now in 2002 - 2005. Just like cell was deisgined using all the breakthroughs that happened after the chips in the ps2 were designed. I don't see it far fetched.

 

[Paul]

Intel nor AMD will have a 10Tflops Desktop computing chip in 2008 end of story, they don't go out and design funky architectures that do tens of tflops. They stick to what is basic.

Back to the subject at hand.

 

[jvd]

Intel nor AMD will have a 10Tflops Desktop computing chip in 2008 end of story, they don't go out and design funky architectures that do tens of tflops. They stick to what is basic.

Back to the subject at hand.

Okay. SO amd and intel wont have a cpu that does 10tflops . Who cares amd and intel don't need a chip to do that. I think ati or nvidia will be very close to that though. Very very close.

 

[Paul]

ATI and Nvidia are GPU makers, so you say their GPU's will be able to do 10Tflops by 2008? sounds about right to me, although remember we are talking about a GPU's Flops though.

 

[jvd]

ATI and Nvidia are GPU makers, so you say their GPU's will be able to do 10Tflops by 2008? sounds about right to me, although remember we are talking about a GPU's Flops though.

SO what ? Before you were trying to compare a genral processer to processer made to do graphics. Which to me is nothing short of a gpu. Or at the very least the same as the tnl chips on the ati and nvidia gpus. I'm sure if intel and amd wanted to get into graphics they would design a chip that would rival cell. Intell most likely destroying cell as they would sink as much money into it as they wanted to

 

[marconelly!]

JVD, just because we know near speed of light speeds are theoretically possible for spaceships, and even can imagine physically correct designs for those, doesn't mean we actually can build them.

For even better example, see my fusion reactor comment above.

General idea and design means little if you don't have technology to build it (or if it's unreasonably expensive)

 

[Paul]

Cell isn't a GPU... Which is why PS3 will need GS3..

I don't even know what your talking about at this point. You basicly just said that ATI or Nvidia can make a better CPU than Intel Or AMD.

 

[jvd]

JVD, just because we know near speed of light speeds are theoretically possible for spaceships, and even can imagine physically correct designs for those, doesn't mean we actually can build them.

For even better example, see my fusion reactor comment above.

Your just being crazy now . Read what i wrote. I said if it could be done on todays tech . Yes cell can be done on .13 and .9 micron. It may run hot and may not reach 3 ghz but it can be done. No doubt it will cost a crap load but it can be done. A fusion reactor can not be done with any tech right now. Neither can we obtian near light speed engines. But if the tech was avalible right now and no one was using it for that then i would say its this years tech.

 

[Paul]

So allow me to sum up what your saying, PS3 will be outdated upon it's release because it's a 2002 idea?

 

[jvd]

So allow me to sum up what your saying, PS3 will be outdated upon it's release because it's a 2002 idea?

Did i say that ?

Will there be tech thats better than it yes. Will there be new tech out the same year that is slower than it yes. Is the tech that is being designed when the ps3 launches better than the ps3 ? yes .

Look at it this way. The geforce fx came out in this year ? its design was done last year. Your telling me that its new tech ?


Of course everything is out of date by the time we the consumers get our hands on it. hell the chips we are going to get in sept are outdated tech

 

[Paul]

"its design was done last year. Your telling me that its new tech ?"

It's a NEW piece of technology because it just came out. Design isn't technology, just because you design something a year ago and it comes out today doesn't mean it's outdated.

 

[Paul]

So basicly going by your logic, computers werent new technology because we use plastic and metal to make them which have been around for millions of years?

 

[marconelly!]

JVD, I never singled out Cell's unfeasability today as being technically impossible. I said it can be financial.

We have all those ultra fast supercomputers made with technology available few years ago, but they are way too expensive for mass production. Yet the ARE faster than home computers made with today's technology. Money has to come into equation somewhere.

Just because Cell *can* be made today means nothing. Supercomputers way more powerful than cell *can* be made today, but who cares about that? Who cares what year was it when someone envisioned something, when it can't be brought to market until few years later, as the technology for affordable building it is not mature enough?

A fusion reactor can not be done with any tech right now.

Maybe we can (after all we can certainly know how it *should* be built) but noone is willing to spend ludicruos amounts of money to test if the latest design works (after all the failed experiments from the past it wouldn't surprise me)

 

[jvd]

"its design was done last year. Your telling me that its new tech ?"

It's a NEW piece of technology because it just came out. Design isn't technology, just because you design something a year ago and it comes out today doesn't mean it's outdated.

Alright. Then how about this . IN sept silicon was back on the chips . SO there was working nv30s out there. Thus it was done last year .

 

[jvd]

So basicly going by your logic, computers werent new technology because we use plastic and metal to make them which have been around for millions of years?

Well paul u win. You brought this down to a 6 year olds level. Enjoy your convo . I wont tread into any ps3 threads since you can't say one thing that might make it sound as if the ps3 is not the second comming