What are the chinks in XB360's armour?
- Thread starter Shifty Geezer
- Start date
one said:
I'm going to assume there's going to be an external video output pack system (similar to the way the xbox 1 HD pack worked), that will enable HDMI and DVI.
Basically my guess is in the box, you will get the console, and a composite/s-video/component video output pack that fits into the AV out port and if you want DVI/HDMI, you go and buy the DVI/HDMI output pack for $30 or something and plug that into the AV out port instead.
Same way it worked in xbox 1.
EXCEPT, the xb output packs merely routed different analog pins to different cables. They were just dummy plugs really that you had to pay lots of money for. Nintendo's component cable was actually at least a little unique, in the sense there was actually a DAC in the plug itself.
If x360 has analog outputs like original xb - and everything points to this being the case at the moment - nothing can be done to change the fact the machine doesn't support HDMI/DVI. If it doesn't have digital output, then it can't support these output options. You could jury-rig it with an additional ADC and DVI transmitter logic, but that's not the same thing as supporting it.
If x360 has analog outputs like original xb - and everything points to this being the case at the moment - nothing can be done to change the fact the machine doesn't support HDMI/DVI. If it doesn't have digital output, then it can't support these output options. You could jury-rig it with an additional ADC and DVI transmitter logic, but that's not the same thing as supporting it.
Rockster said:
No 100%? Isn't there already DVI that's both digital and analog? If one port can be used for either digital or analog signals, it will be ok.
Personally, i think 2 ports wouldn't hurt, afterall the Xenos already probably has double outputs, like most GPUs released in the last few years.
Except Xenos is a custom part for console only created to MS's specs, Plus the output of the frame buffer is nothing to do with Xenos. MS are sourcing a different output device. Hence the statements Xenos can support 1080p, but the XB360 doesn't because of MS's choice of output (which is still subject to change I guess)
That was a well thought out what-if analysis Acert.
This could be an issue, and at the limited cost differential, MS should just include Gigabit connectivity. If for nothing else, just to say, “I can piss as far as youâ€.
I think MS will have plenty of capable launch software. I think MS’s only mistake is that they should’ve shown renders of what the content will look like along with the current, at that time, in-game content.
I don’t think MS has any delusion that they’ll be able to supplant legitimate full-blown games with neutered microtransacted content. I’m not saying that some developers won’t try it, and within some confines it might work. On the whole, I see more positives than negatives with microtransactions.
Although this item is getting some play on many of the geekier message boards, I see this as almost a complete non-factor at this point in time. More important than developer support for 1080p is content support from Hollywood and none of the big three will even considering offering prime time content @ 1080p considering they were dragged kicking and screaming (at much cost)into 720p/1080i.
I agree with your points here largely. The only caveats that I would note is that there still exists no standard format for an HD optical format yet; and this could end up hurting Sony. Not only that, I think we’ll see a trimmed back PS3 come launch. I don’t think core hardware will be changed, but some there’s some overkill in the PS3 IMO. There is no need for six USB ports and two HDMI ports IMO. The point is, Sony will trim back because they have to. At this point spec-wise, I think the PS3 would lose them way too much money.
I agree. It will be interesting to see how all of this washes out in the final hardware.
You’re thinking in terms of this gen, not nextgen. As development costs rise, more and more developers will not risk putting all of their eggs in one console basket.
Translation = expect more multiconsole releases nextgen than last.
No big surprise here. I think growing pains will be evident on both consoles.
I’m not too worried about this myself. I’ve already pre-ordered my 360; and one of my local Gamestops said that they’re growing thin on pre-order slots. I think that demand will be sufficient, and most probably they’ll have backwards compatibility for Halo 2 at launch. Hell, PGR3 and GR3 are enough for me launch-wise.
This is one of things I will be watching the closest. Sony will certainly capture a part of the audience who just wants a gaming platform for the kidlets; and a box that can handle surfing, email and the like; but don’t want a desktop PC. The question is, will it be a niche; or a large part of the buying public. My guess is that most people will still be more comfortable with a PC and game console rather than one. I’m not sure that total convergence is ready for prime time at this point.
The battle lines are clearly drawn though- this is a fight for the living room.
Acert93 said:
This could be an issue, and at the limited cost differential, MS should just include Gigabit connectivity. If for nothing else, just to say, “I can piss as far as youâ€.
I think MS will have plenty of capable launch software. I think MS’s only mistake is that they should’ve shown renders of what the content will look like along with the current, at that time, in-game content.
I don’t think MS has any delusion that they’ll be able to supplant legitimate full-blown games with neutered microtransacted content. I’m not saying that some developers won’t try it, and within some confines it might work. On the whole, I see more positives than negatives with microtransactions.
Although this item is getting some play on many of the geekier message boards, I see this as almost a complete non-factor at this point in time. More important than developer support for 1080p is content support from Hollywood and none of the big three will even considering offering prime time content @ 1080p considering they were dragged kicking and screaming (at much cost)into 720p/1080i.
I agree with your points here largely. The only caveats that I would note is that there still exists no standard format for an HD optical format yet; and this could end up hurting Sony. Not only that, I think we’ll see a trimmed back PS3 come launch. I don’t think core hardware will be changed, but some there’s some overkill in the PS3 IMO. There is no need for six USB ports and two HDMI ports IMO. The point is, Sony will trim back because they have to. At this point spec-wise, I think the PS3 would lose them way too much money.
I agree. It will be interesting to see how all of this washes out in the final hardware.
You’re thinking in terms of this gen, not nextgen. As development costs rise, more and more developers will not risk putting all of their eggs in one console basket.
Translation = expect more multiconsole releases nextgen than last.
No big surprise here. I think growing pains will be evident on both consoles.
I’m not too worried about this myself. I’ve already pre-ordered my 360; and one of my local Gamestops said that they’re growing thin on pre-order slots. I think that demand will be sufficient, and most probably they’ll have backwards compatibility for Halo 2 at launch. Hell, PGR3 and GR3 are enough for me launch-wise.
This is one of things I will be watching the closest. Sony will certainly capture a part of the audience who just wants a gaming platform for the kidlets; and a box that can handle surfing, email and the like; but don’t want a desktop PC. The question is, will it be a niche; or a large part of the buying public. My guess is that most people will still be more comfortable with a PC and game console rather than one. I’m not sure that total convergence is ready for prime time at this point.
The battle lines are clearly drawn though- this is a fight for the living room.
scooby_dooby
Legend
Ya I don't understand the argument for 1080p. 1080p TV's are still very rare and expensive, and even if you got one, how many Dev's will actually produce games at 1080p? If its anything like this gen, with 720p support, it will be something like 1 in 200 games.
I think the important thing that no-one's talking about, is the fact the X360 requires 720p, and the PS3 requires nothing. So some games on the PS3 may not even support 1080i or 720p, let alone 1080p.
As far as launch line-up, EA has stated this is the biggest commitment to a console launch in the companies history, 6 games schedules for the launch window, then you have Ghost Recon 3, 2 Rare Games, Elder Scrolls, and a bunch more, 25-40 games.
I've never seen a launch this strong before. think back to 1999, remember people buying that fireworks game for PS2 because there was nothing else? Or the original XBOX launch, boring games and not many of them.
It's an amazing launch line-up, so really I think the pressure is on Sony now, no more PS1 or PS2 style launch line-ups, they're gonna have to step it up.
As far as E3 goes, MS has always kinda stunk at E3. Remember the original Halo at E3? I think they did same thing this time, showed works in progress, and it didn't go over too well. Just give em time.
In an interview with EGM this month, rare said the PD0 graphics were a "grain of salt" compared to the final graphics, so I wouldn't count Rare's games out just yet.
I think the important thing that no-one's talking about, is the fact the X360 requires 720p, and the PS3 requires nothing. So some games on the PS3 may not even support 1080i or 720p, let alone 1080p.
As far as launch line-up, EA has stated this is the biggest commitment to a console launch in the companies history, 6 games schedules for the launch window, then you have Ghost Recon 3, 2 Rare Games, Elder Scrolls, and a bunch more, 25-40 games.
I've never seen a launch this strong before. think back to 1999, remember people buying that fireworks game for PS2 because there was nothing else? Or the original XBOX launch, boring games and not many of them.
It's an amazing launch line-up, so really I think the pressure is on Sony now, no more PS1 or PS2 style launch line-ups, they're gonna have to step it up.
As far as E3 goes, MS has always kinda stunk at E3. Remember the original Halo at E3? I think they did same thing this time, showed works in progress, and it didn't go over too well. Just give em time.
In an interview with EGM this month, rare said the PD0 graphics were a "grain of salt" compared to the final graphics, so I wouldn't count Rare's games out just yet.
Regards launches, I'll believe it when I see it. ALL console companies boast great launch lineups for their systems. I remember crazy figures for DS and PSP games in the works and to be launched within a few months of the console. I'll never believe a 'promise' of xx games for launch unless they're in the tens (15-20). That seems par for the course.
Yes.
There are DVI "connectors" that contain both analog VGA pins and digital DVI pins. In order to access the analog VGA pins, you attach an adapter to provide the standard VGA db15 connector. Xenos' can't provide any digital output.
No. Most GPU's have integrated TMDS transmitters, Xenos does not. A seperate chip reads the framebuffer for display.
A new display chip with digital out could be added later for DVI/HDMI and/or dual outputs without altering the Xenos design. IMO, this could cause consumer confusion as to which models do and don't support digital displays. More likely to come in a re-modeled or significantly feature changed version.
Rockster said:
Well not really. A nice big flashy "NOW WITH DIGITAL OUTPUTS" label on each side of the box will do.
chlovinka said:
Any cost difference in console components is magnified due to the scale of console sales, no? I don't know what the difference in cost is between the gigabit and 10/100, but anything non-zero means you must justify it.
Let's assume MS hopes Xbox sales more than double this generation, and assume they push through 45 million consoles. And to pull a number out of my ass, let's assume that gigabit connectors add 30 cents to the console cost. In this hypothetical, that "I can piss as far as you" just cost microsoft 13.5 million dollars.
Even at only a 3 cent difference, it's still costing them 1.3 million.
.Sis
Though spread over several years, it's a negligable quantity, especially with what MS is raking in elsewhere. Heck, Mr. Gates could fit the bill himself with an afternoon's earnings!
Or, more likely, higher game licensing costs hence higher cost to the end user...
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but the with this talk of xbox360 as mediacentre, this generation could be first of consoles plagued by virusses.
That should be enough reason for MS to want to stay away from adding PC functionality like a browser to the box.
Same goes for Sony if they ever intend to put their PS3 in the place of the homecomputer, even if they do use Linux.
That should be enough reason for MS to want to stay away from adding PC functionality like a browser to the box.
Same goes for Sony if they ever intend to put their PS3 in the place of the homecomputer, even if they do use Linux.
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