Watch out Immersion, new force feedback system created that will work with sixaxis

Capeta said:
I'd rather have a small speaker in the controller like the Wii remote for that. With a small speaker you could hear AND feel the clicks.
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The speaker in the Wiimote is a REALLY clever idea. Unfortunately the implementation is SOO bad that it detracts from it. Literally tons of people are choosing to turn down or turn off the speaker, especially for Zelda. Quite a shame but maybe they can fix it somehow. In Zelda it drives me insane.
 
Crayon said:
I continue to be amazed at what an issue this is.

Here follows my complete collection of fond "rumble" memories:

1: Starfox 64. It was just astounding! For about a week.

2: Psycho Mantis moved the controller!

3: In GT4 (with DS2) - "Wow. This is the best implementation of buzzing I've ever felt."

Rumble is silly. I can't believe people finnd it to be a significant ommision. Generally, it simply buzzes anytime something happens. How does constant buzzing add to the game experience? It eats batties in wireless controllers. And it adds weight to controllers, which should be as lightweight as possible, imo.

The lack of force feedback in GT5 is genuinly distressing to me. But as for the standard gamepad "buzzing" - it's high time we kick that gimmick.
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Just because rumble doesn't produce a "wow" factor for every single title doesn't mean its a silly feature. There is nothing amazing about the right analog stick but remove it and guess what would stick out like a sore thumb when playing any shooter/FPS developed post removal of the right TS.

If rumble was such a gimmick then why do a large plethora of games make use of such a feature?
 
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Diamond.G said:
After thinking about your magnetic mass idea, something stood out. Wouldn't you have to have a heavy mass and a strong magnet to get it to move.
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Of course you would. That's why I said Newton would be turning over in his grave... the mass and deflection (moving part) determine the sensation you feel, and it doesn't matter how you accomplish the movement.

The 'mass in a magnetic coil' is generally referred to as a solenoid, or if you attach a diaphram to it a loudspeaker. :) That was the first thing I would have tought of if asked to add rumble to a controller. Does Immersion use something else... rotating eccentric masses?

There aren't many other options... piezo doesn't generally produce deflections large enough for this purpose. I guess there are a few variations of the vibrating armature concept in a solenoid, but I don't see any reason to pursue them unless the patent landscape forced you to.
 
dobwal said:
Just because rumble doesn't produce a "wow" factor for every single title doesn't mean its a silly feature. There is nothing amazing about the right analog stick but remove it and guess what would stick out like a sore thumb when playing any shooter/FPS developed post removal of the right TS.

If rumble was such a gimmick then why do a large plethora of games make use of such a feature?
Click to expand...

I see what you're getting at, but that's a poor example. If you removed the right thumbstick, I'd have to find a new control scheme for alot of established genres.

If you remove the rumble, you just save me the time it takes to go to the options and turn it off....

My point is that the occasion where it has added anything meaningful has been so rare that the feature is basically worthless. The overwhelmingly vast majority of the time, the controller simply buzzes when something explodes, or you take a hit, or drive into a wall... Things that are generally comunicated thru sounds and cisuals. And things that are happening all the time. The controller constantly buzzes to no benefit.

On some occasions, the buzz has been used for a neat gimmick effect. Like the stone of agony in Ocarina Of Time. In cases like these, the gifted creator would have found a clever use for any off the wal feature you could include in a console.

Now there are very rare exceptions. In GT4, the rumblings of the Dual Shock 2 are used to signal tire grip to great effect. It actually allows you a little more information than you can get with the rumble turned off.

But those examples are too few and far between. I nearly always disable buzzing. I did it on all PS2 and XBox games. I was pleased when the Wavebird passed on it entirely. I liked how my Logitech PS2 controllers had a button to kill the buzzing. I am happy that the Wii has a global option to disable it (and that god aweful speaker!). And I'm thrilled that the PS3 has finally dropped the option; Not only does it save me the hassle of turning it off, but I'll never miss the once in a blue moon worthwile use of the rumble becasue it will never be there in the first place! Lovely! And as a benefit, it makes the controller nice and feathery. Like they used to be before all the buzzing started!!
 
Crayon said:
If you remove the rumble, you just save me the time it takes to go to the options and turn it off....
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You're entitled to your preferences and opinions. Others have their own.

My point is that the occasion where it has added anything meaningful [to you] has been so rare [in your opinion]that the feature is basically worthless[to you].
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Sorry you find it worthless. I hope you find other controllers more to your liking. I happen to enjoy rumble... my hands telling me things relieves some of the burden from my eyes, thus I happen to think it is a much better balanced sensory input system. That's my opinion. See... different perspectives and different opinions.

I nearly always disable buzzing. I did it on all PS2 and XBox games. I was pleased when the Wavebird passed on it entirely. I liked how my Logitech PS2 controllers had a button to kill the buzzing. I am happy that the Wii has a global option to disable it (and that god aweful speaker!). And I'm thrilled that the PS3 has finally dropped the option; Not only does it save me the hassle of turning it off, but I'll never miss the once in a blue moon worthwile use of the rumble becasue it will never be there in the first place! Lovely! And as a benefit, it makes the controller nice and feathery. Like they used to be before all the buzzing started!!
Click to expand...
Your cookie is ready.
 
I agree with Crayon.

Rumble is used improperly most of the time and constant buzzing during an explosion is just annoying. However, there are cases where devs have used it perfectly and it actually enhances the experience. So for the games where it is annoying I disable it. For the ones it helps and enhances the gameplay/experience I leave it on.

Options are a good thing. ;)
 
Crayon said:
I see what you're getting at, but that's a poor example. If you removed the right thumbstick, I'd have to find a new control scheme for alot of established genres.

If you remove the rumble, you just save me the time it takes to go to the options and turn it off....

My point is that the occasion where it has added anything meaningful has been so rare that the feature is basically worthless. The overwhelmingly vast majority of the time, the controller simply buzzes when something explodes, or you take a hit, or drive into a wall... Things that are generally comunicated thru sounds and cisuals. And things that are happening all the time. The controller constantly buzzes to no benefit.

On some occasions, the buzz has been used for a neat gimmick effect. Like the stone of agony in Ocarina Of Time. In cases like these, the gifted creator would have found a clever use for any off the wal feature you could include in a console.

Now there are very rare exceptions. In GT4, the rumblings of the Dual Shock 2 are used to signal tire grip to great effect. It actually allows you a little more information than you can get with the rumble turned off.

But those examples are too few and far between. I nearly always disable buzzing. I did it on all PS2 and XBox games. I was pleased when the Wavebird passed on it entirely. I liked how my Logitech PS2 controllers had a button to kill the buzzing. I am happy that the Wii has a global option to disable it (and that god aweful speaker!). And I'm thrilled that the PS3 has finally dropped the option; Not only does it save me the hassle of turning it off, but I'll never miss the once in a blue moon worthwile use of the rumble becasue it will never be there in the first place! Lovely! And as a benefit, it makes the controller nice and feathery. Like they used to be before all the buzzing started!!
Click to expand...

You are right, rumble is not really used as a functional feature in most games. But guess what? Over half of visual and sound effects in games are not functional either. What functional about clouds in just about any game? How about the windows on a building that you can't enter and the enemy doesn't fire from? How about the fans in the stand on a race track or football field? Hearing sounds of your own foot steps and yourself breathing heavily? How, about seeing your gun duing a FPS? These are all features whose primary purpose is to to enhance the game by trying to further immerse you into the game world.

Rumble does the same thing when it "buzzes" while you riding in a truck or heli in just about any war shooter, when you get hit by a tackle during Madden or just about every game that uses rumble as a way to include our sense of touch to further immerse us. Just because it has no affect on you doesn't mean that everyone finds it to be "worthless" or "not anything meaningful" and is not worthy of complaint due to the lack of the feature on the PS3 controller.
 
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dobwal said:
You are right, rumble is not really used as a functional feature in most games. But guess what? Over half of visual and sound effects in games are not functional either. What functional about clouds in just about any game? How about the windows on a building that you can't enter and the enemy doesn't fire from? How about the fans in the stand on a race track or football field? Hearing sounds of your own foot steps and yourself breathing heavily? How, about seeing your gun duing a FPS? These are all features whose primary purpose is to to enhance the game by trying to further immerse you into the game world.

Rumble does the same thing when it "buzzes" while you riding in a truck or heli in just about any war shooter, when you get hit by a tackle during Madden or just about every game that uses rumble as a way to include our sense of touch to further immerse us. Just because it has no affect on you doesn't mean that everyone finds it to be "worthless" or "not anything meaningful" and is not worthy of complaint due to the lack of the feature on the PS3 controller.
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took the words right out of my mouth

exactly how i feel about it. It adds to the experience. Then you have the necessity of it in games like R* Table Tennis where it gives you rumble clues as to when your shot is going to go too far so you can adjust it in time.
 
Bigus Dickus said:
You're entitled to your preferences and opinions. Others have their own.
Click to expand...

You've pointed out that that my statements are opinions several times. It didn't need to be pointed out once.

You should take for granted that things people state on discussion forums are their opinion. imo, of course.
 
dobwal said:
Good argument that I find faulty nonetheless. :p
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I wouldn't compare rumble, buzzing or tactile feedback to graphics. Graphics are constantly march on, and are regularly able to bring new and worthwile content to games. In fact, I bet there is a whole site out there dedicated to graphics! With forums and everything. I wouldn't be suprised, because there is so much to talk about regarding graphics. Specifically, graphical effects that don't seem to directly influence gameplay.

Where are the rumble message boards? ;) Is there just not enough to talk about within the vast world of rumbleing effects? Topics on rumbling during taking damage, or rumble whendealing damage? Rumble when firing a gun or rumble when falling a long distance? Such is the depth of the rumble experieince!!! :p
 
Crayon said:
I wouldn't compare rumble, buzzing or tactile feedback to graphics. Graphics are constantly march on, and are regularly able to bring new and worthwile content to games. In fact, I bet there is a whole site out there dedicated to graphics! With forums and everything. I wouldn't be suprised, because there is so much to talk about regarding graphics. Specifically, graphical effects that don't seem to directly influence gameplay.

Where are the rumble message boards? ;) Is there just not enough to talk about within the vast world of rumbleing effects? Topics on rumbling during taking damage, or rumble whendealing damage? Rumble when firing a gun or rumble when falling a long distance? Such is the depth of the rumble experieince!!! :p
Click to expand...

There aren't any force feed back forums either.:smile: Where is Triangle-Circle-Square-X.com? What about Wavebirds4ever.com, MemoryCardsRUS.com, and Videogames&RAM.com? 90% of pertinent aspects of gaming don't have dedicated forums or website? Graphics are to videogames as a Quarterback is to a football team, a glory hog. Just because there aren't forums and websites dedicated to a certain aspect doesn't make it any less relevant.

There is nothing exiting about talking about the advent of the shoulder button or the start button either doesn't mean they haven't made meaningful contribution to the gaming world.
 
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