Was the minimum framerate in Halo single player <30?

*waits for a mention of the crashes that certain people have in Metroid Prime*

 

Can anyone explain how to reproduce it? I've only played through the game 2 1/2 times, my wife once and my son about half way through, but I haven't been able to get it to crash yet.

To crash Morrowind, play the game for more then thirty hours actually doing things, or go to Vivec/Ebonheart at any point when you are more then half way through the game and walk around for a bit, or create a high power levitate spell and then try to use dispell on yourself(I could keep going). At several points in the game it would seriously crash every five minutes. I've heard of some people having crashes in MP, I've tried to get the game to crash but noone can seem to list a repeatable way of doing it(which actually leads me to believe that they have hardware that is going to shit).

 

I didn't believe you about how buggy Morrowind was Ben. I mean, all of these places reviewed the game so highly. But my sister bought the game, and she actually beat it Anyways, she said that it was not uncommon to have crashes ever few minutes once you got on higher levels

THAT is unacceptable.

You asked for it Blade

I had like five of them. Couple were outside of the Chozo Ruins's Save Point, the other seemed to be mostly random. My Gamecube is in the best of health; my disc, pristine. Seems to be a problem with the game itself; Rogue Leader and PSO also have the same problem with lock-ups.

 

Ozy: It's random, though. Hard to reproduce as Ben said. I only brought it up because I knew somebody would probably complain about it because Ben brought up Morrowind. (which is far buggier anyways)

My copy has done it a total of 3 times while I played.. twice in the first game I started (once on the Chozo elevator and once in the hallway pass Energy Core.. couldn't reproduce either.. and I tried) and once on my Hard Mode game.

Y'know that Tower in Chozo Ruins? Right after the room where you get the Morph Ball? Well, I went in there and tried going underwater (to where the Artifact is) but since I didn't have the Gravity Suit I couldn't do anything.. obviously. The funny thing is, right when you'd expect the game to say "you can't progress further without an upgrade" it crashed. Unlike the other two times though (which occurred within 20 minutes of each other, BTW) the game actually gave me a message saying that I've encountered an error and that I should consult the GameCube manual. It's weird. I'd like to find out exactly what causes it.
BTW, my brother (who you might know from XenGamers, he's Rash) beat the game without a single crash. Same copy of MP, same memory card, same GCN. My co-worker and I were chatting about the game today, coincidentally. He's played for 6 hours and hasn't experienced any problems.. so it's indeed random and unexpected.

 

I got those messages with increasing frequency leading up to my Cube crapping out on me. Luckily N has a one year warranty so it was fixed witout costing me a cent, but it seems that those error messages pop up on people's systems who have had the crashes. Not sure, I can't reproduce them with a total of seventy-eighty hours into the game between everyone in my house. I have had RL lock up on me a couple of times, and Smuggler's Run once(all of those were prior to my Cube being serviced however, haven't had any since).

 

ben,

Interesting, so I guess that means you won't ever pay for a Pc game then. Yes I ignore the patch issue. i didn't hear anything about a patch for that game until you mentioned it. I only have an issue with you claiming that MS testing dosen't have standards based on the experience with one game that has never been attempted on a console before.

let me explain it to you. Obviously unless you've worked on a game title that is large and or tried to test one that is large you can't fully understand how difficult it is to actually complete. Since you can't understand it, that Imo, is why you're flying off the handle saying that "they clearly have no standards". If you're going to use a single game as an example of all of the Xbox game testing performed during the approval process, you should at least understand how different this game is compared to all other games released on all the consoles.

Gimme a break ben! You don't know anything about fable honestly, certainly not enough to know if the game is nearly as open ended or large as morrowind. i didn't say that it's not possible to create a game like this. however as I said before, have you EVER seen a console game quite like it? As far as I know they are the first to attempt to create a game like that on anythign but a PC. perhaps you're a little blind or something or are just flyng off the handle again, but i'm NOT apologizing for anything. I'm saying it's completely foolish to say that "they have no standards based on one incredibly large game. bethesda deserves what they get for releasing a game like that, however that doesn't mean it's due to MS's shoddy testing or anything like that.

yep, you're flying off the handle as usual. you simply don't know what you're talking about when it comes to getting a game like this approved. Is true crime as open ended as morrwind? do you know anything about it honestly? KoTOR is certainly not as open ended as morrowind from what I read. Star wars galaxies hasn't been annouced for any console AFAIK. if you knew anything about the approval process with any manufacturers, you'd know it's totally possible to release a title that passes through compliance and fuinctional testing, even with the type of problems you listed on any platform and I do mean any.

this obviosuly doens't change things, but to say that MS doesn't care abtou the quality or whatever is a pure load of shit. It's just happens that this game specifically had far too many testable variables to cover every possible bug. Blame bethesda for all you want, I bet they knew about bugs that MS had never found. let me put it this way, if MS found a single crash the game would NOT get approved.

I've seen plenty of people that claimed to complete the game without seeing one crash while others had lot's of crashes. I'm not claiming it's a isolated problem since this isn't the same situation as running games with different PC's. the game has bugs, I'm not apologizing for that at all. i'm saying this is in no way the norm. games the size of morrowind are not the norm. I'm sure MS put them through hell for the majority of the problems they had withthe PC version since the xbox build came out two months later.

Ghost recon downloading an update to fix the issue with servers sometimes not appearing? Quite a differnt story when they are offering something to fix an issue with an internet game, that clearly has no impact on the single player game whatsoever. As I said before, you're flying off the handle. You've sighted two games that have been pathched in some way, and one of them is fixing an issue on a internet game, you see that, and internet game! You know the kinda stuff that can't be fixed on a similar title called Socom on PS2. Yes good god, 2 games have a patch, omigod all of gaming has been destroyed.

if you weren't happy with the game all you had to do is reutrn it and teach bethesda a lesson. You keep dwelling on this like it's happend to you with every freaking game you've purchased. get real, it hasn't and I think you're over reacting.

 

Quincy: Heh, as long as fixing console games post-release doesn't become "popular".. I'll be happy.

Stability is one thing that consoles have over computers.. I'd hate to see them lose it!

 

as i said, games like Morrowind aren't the norm. Most games designed specifically for consles won't be quite as large or open ended, and will usually direct the player through game play/story in a much better way. As I'm sure you've seen, games on all platforms are still released with crash bugs. Don't take this game an an example of all xbox titles, becuase it's not.

 

Oh, I know. My Xbox has yet to crash in any of the games I've tried.

 

What bugs me is when people start saying idotic wide sweeping statements like this.

That's just plains foolish. based on problems with a single game? Pure fanboee talk imo.

 

Quincy-

You are bordering on raving lunatic apologist.

Errr, Halo was never attempted on a console, nor was MetroidPrime, nor SuperMarioSunshine, nor pretty much every single game ever released for a console. As far as the type of game, Ultimas used to be on consoles, dating back to the 80s.

You go buy a new car. Everything is fine for three years. Then, the computer in your car starts misreading the air/fuel ratio invoking a yet unseen flaw in the logic advanging your timing by twenty degrees and it ends up causing serious internal damage to your engine. You bring the car in and they tell you, paraphrasing 'go screw yourself'.

Are you going to care in the slightest way how complex an internal combustion is in relation to the computer and how it needs to modify thousands of variables a second? No, and you shouldn't. The only people that would say you should are the most rabid apologists for the manufacturer you can find. It is none of my concern nor should it ever be what they need to do to qualify a product. Creating a situation that will cause Morrowind to crash is very easy and repeatable. We aren't talking about obscure bugs that you have to complete a series of events to invoke. The caching scheme for the game is entirely fubared.

Again, they packaged and sold it as a working product. They obviously could not pull it off, they should have never tried it or at the very least cancelled the project when they realized they were nowhere near competent enough to do the task.

So you are saying Lionhead is full of liars. I wouldn't be shocked given their track record, although Fable is supposed to be under development by a different group then Black&amp;White. There has been a slew of articles written on Fable and exactly how open ended it is, Morrowind isn't even close.

The game should have never been released, period. Thousands and thousands of end users can repeatedly recreate exactly what causes the game to crash, and MS's professionals can't? Obviously they are not up to the task at hand.

There are these sites scattered across the web that cover gaming news for not only PCs, but also consoles. When a company announces a major title that was for the PC and is coming to the consoles all of the sites cover it, it will be everywhere, anywhere you look. StarWars Galaxies was one of those games-

http://www.lucasarts.com/products/galaxies/press4.htm

This was everywhere when it was announced, and that happend closing in on a year ago. GameRankings already has the XBox and PS2 versions in their database-

http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/22565.asp

http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/23213.asp

There is a total of ten previews of the console version for you to look at. It doesn't surprise me that you don't think someone could know much about Fable which has been covered quite extensively if you aren't even aware of Star Wars Galaxies being ported to the consoles(although they haven't had as much hype as Fable in terms of previews, missing the SWG announcement shows how closely you follow industry news).

If they didn't find a single crash then they clearly don't give the slightest rats ass about quality.

Point me to five. I can point you to hundreds/thousands of people who have hundreds/thousands of crashes.

Morrowind never got patched, I was talking about there being a patch at all. This is your most shining example of being an apologist. Tollerating a patch on a console. Perhaps you long for mediocricty being commonplace in terms of quality of code in the console world, I don't know anyone else who does.

 

Mmm... I've played through Prime on Normal, ~13.6 hours, with no crashes whatsoever.

On my Hard Mode run (pulled off full 100%'s - scan and pickup - in 11 hours) I had two crashes:

Once on the way to the ice beam, in one of the small S-shaped tunnels common in the Chozo Ruins (basically a load mask room), halfway through the tunnel.

The other was while I was working on the last few missile expansions, a trip through the 'first' elevator from the Overworld to the Chozo Ruins (the first elevator you're ever "supposed" to use). After the animation was complete, the moment the elevator platfom reached the bottom, it froze.

I *suspect* Prime's crashes are load-related: All of the crashes I've heard of seem to happen during "load mask" scenes and areas. Perhaps the game, while preloading the next area, fails to load something, doesn't catch it, and then tries to run non-extant code, or tries to access RAM that isn't filled?

GCN has a 'squeal of death' problem (FSOD) which seems to have a lot to do with memory management and infinite loop errors to me, so far. TimeSplitters 2 has it in the AI - it gets stuck in an infinite loop if there aren't enough weapon pickups available nearby, and nothing else to do (shoot or whatever - usually happens in Capture the Bag) - and it has it in memory management: the 'EXTRA LARGE' tile in the MapMaker seems to be VERY buggy in tilesets other than Victorian, with a crash associated with what seems to be a memory leak. PSO has a similar problem but I haven't heard anything conclusive about players' conditions; however I would hazard a guess that not picking up every item (leaving lots of "stuff" lying around, filling RAM uselessly) after extended periods probably causes problems because the people with the problem said they lost 'several hours' of play time, which has to be in one session or they'd've saved halfway.

The Rogue Leader game crash, I've experienced myself and is VERY VERY weird. Midway through long missions (Prisons of the Maw for me), sometimes the sound effects volume will plummet to nearly inaudible levels, and the AI will start to go somewhat nutty (your allies will fly almost totally at random, TIEs stop shooting). At the end of the mission, the cinematic will have no sound effects at all other than very low voice samples, then once the end cinematic is over, the game fails to load the 'MISSION COMPLETE' screen. Which is depressing because I'm sure that was a Gold run...

Pardon the long-winded OT post, but ah well I had to say it and I couldn't think of a better way. Maybe I should start a new thread altogether?

 

Patch for Ghost Recon?

 

Of which platform exactly am I supposed to possess anywhere near the pure lust you have for your XBox towards? I hear I'm a XBot from the Cubeites and I'm a Cubeite from the XBots. You think your ability to detect someone's leaning is anywhere near good?

A game that can't stay up and running for twenty minutes at a time and now a game patch. You yourself swore up and down these things, buggy as hell PC ports, wouldn't be allowed back before the XBox launched. I was taking your side at the time, I didn't think there was a chance in hell that Microsoft would allow PC style problems on to the XBox. Quite obviously, I was wrong.

BTW- Brush up on Fable a bit-

http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages4/4717.asp

Besides thos 27 previews there is also a several page article in GI including a discussion with the developers about Fable(along with numerous other print publications). It's shocking how little you know about the XBox's lineup with the attitude you display here regularly. Even your understanding of KOTOR seems to be pretty far off what everyone is reporting(where, or do you, get you console news from?).

http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages4/22132.asp

Another 32 previews to look through. This ignores True Crime, which has the potential to fill in the mold of GTA for the XBox(although it won't carry the panache of exclusive). Your claims that Morrowind is too complex means that all of these games will fail.

Pick the side of the fence. If the open ended game style can't work on consoles then these games will all fail. Either that or your assertion is wrong. If you are not an apologist then you will have no problem picking a side here.

 

You're one to talk there bud. Nobody here is apologizing, but i don't think you can see the forrest from the trees.

What are you talking about man, first person shooters have never been attempted on consoles before? Other than that the only thing different about Halo at least, (not sure about metroid) is that AI had made it quite different from other first person shooters. This is hardly like making a linear RPG games and suddenly changing that by bringingout a RPG that is extremly open. So you're going back to the 80's to prove your point? I'm still certain you'd find those games even more linear than morrowind on a console. Don't even try to compare the complexity of making a game in teh 80's to making a game now, it's far more compllex these days.

This isn't a car, this is a freaking video game. The game had problems, and bethesda is responsible. At first I'd blame MS for all of this, but now that I've had title pass through certification from all game manufacturers, I understand the process of testing games and can see how a title like morrowind still have problems, and no matter what manufactuerer it's stilll the fault of the publisher for testing the majority of the project and making sure it's bug free. Anyway, i'll play along with your anology for a bit.

Once you actually have the understanding of what happened to the car, are you foolish enough to say every single car made by ANY manufacturer is going to have to same problem or that this one car is ruining the entire automobile market? Simply because you FEEL you got a bum run? This started off to be a good analogy and rapidly switched to a bad one.

The ONLY people that would make a wide sweeping statements like "becuase of this one game, it's ruining the entire video game market" (or Xbox in this case) is simply being the most rabid fanboi they can be. I can understand being pissed off over purchasing a game with bugs. I've done it many times on the PC. I've bought games that didn't work right out of the box, but having one bad PC game didn't change my opinion of all PC games in general.

You keep saying that I'm an apologist, but it's not what I'm doing at all! try reading what I'm saying. All I'm saying is that it's foolish to think all games on xbox are buggy due to a single game that is a whole beast onto itself. there's a reason why morrowind is the way it is. it was too big. Too big for bethesda to test on the PC, and too big for MS to test. It was too big for ANY console and it's the exact reason you won't see many games as open ended for a long time. they are too hard to develop, and too hard to test.

I have no doubt the game had problems but as I said it's still possible to get a game like this through certification, even with problems because it's too big. Does that make things any better for you? No, you obviously have some axe to grind and rufuse to understand how this game is a isolated incidence.

For every crash you saw, I'm sure there's a way around it or else Nobody could complete the game. RPG's are required to provide a save game at or before every single item you can pick up (how many items are are in that game?). It also requires a walk through of the entire game, using that walk through probably avoided many bugs.

If the product was pulled, it would be up to bethesda. if they never tried it, itwas up to bethesda. If the project was cancelled, it was up to bethesda. this is the exact reason you don't see many consle game like this.

liars? see, this is exactly what I mean by you flying off the handle. Do you need to take things to the extreme and over react on everything? I've read those same articles. In fact I've read any article I cand find on this game. I'm sure it sounds open ended right now but I can guarentee you it's a much more controlled adventure then morrowind since this game is 100% designed only for the consle and isn't a port from PC (no PC version will exsist). Good games, give the impression of open endedness without really needing to be designed like that. There's far too many problems develioping as game like that (from what you can see no I'm sure).

As I said above. Saying MS is ruining all of gaming becuase of the problems with this single game is pure fanboi talk, or thinking that every game on xbox is buggy becuase of a title liek this is also fanboi talk. You're over reacting.

I still doubt we'll actually see this title on xbox since it's developed by a sony dev house. sitll, you're using this as a example of a single player game that is openended like morrowind correct? this game is totally different from a single player adventure, it's a bloddy MMORPG. it doesn't have a single player element at all! it's also not coming out for how long? once again i'll ask you the same question I asked before. where have you seen a game on a consle like morrowind. you can attempt to sight all of the games currently in development you want, but that doesn't change the fact there aren't any other games on consoles quite like it at this point.

I still don't think you'll see it on xbox, desptie any sort of annoucement. Sthis shows how much I follow industry news you say? Well, you using this as an example of another open ended game similar to morrowind show what you knwo abotu games period. it's a totally different beast deisgning a game that is a single player open ended adventure to developing a 4 -5 year MMORPG. If you can't see the difference, you don't quite know as much about games as you think you do.

right... that's why every other game on the xbox has crash problems I bet, or wait a second, that's NOT true! I guess you're over reacting!

Go to IGN and start a thread about the game.

My mistake then, I thought you claimed the game was actually recieving a patch. The only way I'd tolerate any sort of patch was if it was for a online multiplayer game since those are incredibly hard to catch every problem out there, and I know alot about this working on internet based games for 4 years. Once again the patch for this game isn't going to fix any bugs in the actual single player game it self, it only fixes problems with servers not always appearing on a search. oh no you have to hit referesh twice!!!!

See, the problem I have with you making your foolish wide sweeping statements saying that "MS is ruining all of gaming" or "lowering the level of console game quality", and blaming them for this and that, is that I never saw such RANTS when Sony released patches/upgrades for Final fantasy online on the PS2 in japan, or allowed the game to be installed to the hard drive like a PC. Or how about the multiple releases of Phantasy Star to fix the problems with cheaters and bugs? hmmm, I guess you can blame that on MS too right? See how multiplayer games typically also have bugs? i have no idea how open ended those games are, but I still think the adventure is a bit more controlled then the morrwind's (do almost anything you want model). As I said before, you're over reacting. Get off your high horse!

 

ben,

you can keep using SWG and FABLE to try and support your point, but both of thos title are a while away and could "almost" end up coming 2 years after morrowind. despite that you dont' usually see open ended games on a console for a reason. that's why you can't give any examples of current game IMO.

LOL! Pure lust, now that's funny. I'm displaying pure lust for Xbox because I'm using a little comme sense, while you're flying off the handle saying MS is ruining all of gaming and calling all xbox titles buggy due to problems with a single game? I'm not calling you a fanboi because I think you're a cubite, i'm calling you a fanboi becuase you're not acting logical (what a fanboi does IMO).

Blaming MS for bugs in all xbox games, ro saying that they don't care is pure fanboi talk. have you seen any other xbox games as bugg or problematic as that one before or after it's release? As i said above it happend to this game for a reason. That's why tthis hasn't turned out to be a reoccuring problem. Console games on all platforms make it out with crash bugs. try not ignoring the other people in this threa that have experienced crashes in other games if want proof.

As I said above, show me more games like this on xbox that have the same problems. there's a reason why bugs in xbox games don't occur like this on a regular basis.

As I said before, MMORPG's are a totally different beast then a typical off line RPG. they are even tougher to implement and also have problems, but usually of a different kind then just crashes. look at fina fantasy online injapan is you want to understadn what I mean, or the first phantasy star online. as I said above, you can't blame the problems for thse on MS. So are you going to still claim that MS is lowering the quality level of consoel games, or whatever foolish rant next?

 

Qroach, his main point is that Nintendo or SONY simply wouldn't have ALLOWED a game as buggy as Morrowind to be released for their console. They would've withheld the license until the bugs could be cleaned up (even if that ends up being indefinite).

 

I would say Morrowind has been a learning experience for both Bethesda and MS. If more games with as many problems/bugs are released on Xbox, then I would seriously start to question MS's standards of quality.

However, up to this point Morrowind would seem to be the exception and not the norm. This of course is just IMO.

 

... and I'm saying Nintendo or Sony wouldn't have done any better a job at catching the problems in that game than MS did. The game was too big, and too open ended to expeirence the same problems in the same places. That's why some people complained of problems and other didn't have nearly as many. If the game couldn't be completed somehow without the game crashing, MS would have told them to fix it. Anyway, my main point of even bothering to argue is that this single game in no way means MS doesn't "care" about the products they release, or in no way does this mean MS is single handedly ruining console game.

It was one single xbox game that had problems and he's acting like every xbox game was/is buggy. Which simply isn't true. There's no other game on xbox this problematic, and with good reason. There's no other that would be as difficult to test IMO.

Wordsmyth understands exactly what I'm saying. A single incidence doesn't make the norm. I mean I don't see ben flying off the handle at squaresoft for making a game that requires patches and updates in japan on the PS2 (FFonline).

 

Wordsmyth,

I fully agree. If it happened with more games then it's a different story and I'd agree with ben, but so far it's only happend with one game.