Warner Exclusive Blu-ray= More PS3 sold?

[-tkf-]

I read those comments as a complete denial to the reality

The "the consumer chose HD-DVD" comment really got to me, how does 2:1 sales to Blu-Ray say that?

In any case, it looks like a complete HD-DVD shutdown is days away, for example is New Line is going to shutdown their HD-DVD efforts even faster than their parent Warner:

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...s/New_Line_Details_Transition_to_Blu-ray/1351

I think this does mean more PS3 sold than i first anticipated.

 

[Crayon]

I doubt that MS has any interest in releasing a BluRay drive. Their involvement in HDDVD was about hobbling the HDM market and Sony in particular. I think they've done all the damage they can do with this stunt. What's next?

 

[quest55720]

I doubt that MS has any interest in releasing a BluRay drive. Their involvement in HDDVD was about hobbling the HDM market and Sony in particular. I think they've done all the damage they can do with this stunt. What's next?

That is such a weak argument. Come on like a over priced hd-dvd was ever going to stall this 1 minute. This was all about MS taking a gamble. If it paid off they win big it did not so back to plan A of downloads. They would of had to stall this a decade to make downloads feasable for mass adoption and that might be optimistic.

If MS was serious why was the add on so over priced? If they really wanted to stagnet they would of sold it near cost. The add on was almost the same street price as an A3 this x-mass.

 

[tirminyl]

Microsoft backing HD-DVD was more for their development of HDi and VC-1. They wanted those formats pushed out to the consumers. Optical media would be one way to do so, another, digital distribution.

 

[AzBat]

Microsoft sets record straight about Blu-ray support

Looks like Microsoft is up in arms over the misconstrued Reuters article saying they might make a Blu-ray add-on.

Let us count the ways he told us in a sitdown that the story was wrong, and when HD DVD really is buried in Microsoft's mind.

1. The "headline misconstrued the context of what I said."
2. Microsoft is "not thinking about it."
3. It is "fairly definitive" Microsoft is not doing it.
4. Microsoft has "no plans" to build anything Blu-ray.
5. Microsoft is "totally committed to HD DVD."

So just when is HD DVD dead in Microsoft's eyes? It's "over when Toshiba says they're not doing HD DVD anymore." And despite the typhoon slamming their sails this week, we're pretty certain Toshiba is staying on on the boat until it hits the sea floor.

http://gizmodo.com/343006/rumor-smashed-microsoft-is-not-considering-blu+ray-support

There was a critical element of our comments missing from the story -- Microsoft currently has no plans at this time to consider Blu-ray as an option. We continue to believe that HD DVD is the best optical solution for consumers, since it's the only format today that delivers quality experiences at affordable prices.
...
While the article states that Microsoft might possibly look into Blu-ray, we just want to emphasize that there are no current plans to consider Blu-ray as an option. Microsoft continues to be dedicated to the HD DVD format and we don't want the Reuters article to mislead or suggest otherwise.

http://kotaku.com/342908/microsft-were-still-committed-to-hd+dvd

Tommy McClain

 

[-tkf-]

HBO Follows Newline and parent Company and drops HD-DVD support.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...O_Confirms_Switch_to_Blu-ray_Exclusivity/1357

And a small demo of BD-LIVE on the PS3 and the PSP thingy..


In regards to "games" on BD-LIVE, how is that going to work, HD player with games in HD?

 

[Mintmaster]

The simplified way to explain this gen:

- Microsoft bet on cheap, fast to market, and easy to dev. They won, the Xbox brand is no longer a joke but a viable platform.

- Sony bet on movies by going with a high priced blu-ray capable console, counting on the trojan horse effect to effectively flood the market long term with millions of blu-ray movie players. Given Warners recent announcement, they also won.

So, both Sony and Microsoft won this generation albeit for different reasons.

Sony hasn't won yet in that respect. They have the HD format now, but it still has to beat out DVD. Sony is only going to make a few cents from each BR disc sold (DVD is like 20 cents AFAIK), but with each PS3 game they get $5-10 or more. Even if an early PS3 owner buys 100 BR movies, Sony still won't recuperate the loss they took in selling that unit. As for Sony Pictures, every DVD sale that gets replaced by a BRD sale at the same price makes no money. They only substantially benefit from double dippers that replace their old Sony Pictures DVD with a BR version and don't sell/give away the old version (which nulls a sale), or those that spend more on the BR version. That a pretty small group for which to subsidize maybe 20M PS3's by the time they break even.

For the purpose of winning the war, it would have made far, far more sense to flood the market with 1/10th as many cheap standalone players. They get studio support, then stop subsidizing. The primary reason BR was made standard in PS3 was not to win the format war, because that's the most costly way to achieve it. Rather, its purpose is to be a selling point of the PS3. The person/committee who made this decision is probably surprised at the quality of DVD-based 360 games.

Licensing fees aren't really that big. That's why when Stringer thought it was a stalemate, he said it won't really affect Sony's financials very much.

So if Warner's move results in many more PS3s sold and many more games/accessories/downloads sold, only then can you say Sony won. I personally think games like GT5 will have an order of magnitude greater impact, and if PD made their game with DVD as a design constraint, IMO it wouldn't have cost them any sales whatsoever.

Microsoft, on the other hand, probably couldn't be happier. $3.5B spent on the 360 platform this year? Matching the peak of the PS2 era in the US? Wow. I don't think reducing the price to move more consoles would have helped them much.

 

[acaeus]

Sony hasn't won yet in that respect. They have the HD format now, but it still has to beat out DVD. Sony is only going to make a few cents from each BR disc sold (DVD is like 20 cents AFAIK), but with each PS3 game they get $5-10 or more. Even if an early PS3 owner buys 100 BR movies, Sony still won't recuperate the loss they took in selling that unit. As for Sony Pictures, every DVD sale that gets replaced by a BRD sale at the same price makes no money. They only substantially benefit from double dippers that replace their old Sony Pictures DVD with a BR version and don't sell/give away the old version (which nulls a sale), or those that spend more on the BR version. That a pretty small group for which to subsidize maybe 20M PS3's by the time they break even.

Yeah right, they did all that to lose money...

For the purpose of winning the war, it would have made far, far more sense to flood the market with 1/10th as many cheap standalone players. They get studio support, then stop subsidizing. The primary reason BR was made standard in PS3 was not to win the format war, because that's the most costly way to achieve it. Rather, its purpose is to be a selling point of the PS3. The person/committee who made this decision is probably surprised at the quality of DVD-based 360 games.

just like Toshiba did and worked so well for them.
You provide a cheap player, all you get is no CE will make players for your format because they cannot compete with the cheap player you provide. That's why only Toshiba makes HD-DVD players.

Licensing fees aren't really that big. That's why when Stringer thought it was a stalemate, he said it won't really affect Sony's financials very much.

Royalties of CD are still the biggest cash cow for Toshiba.

So if Warner's move results in many more PS3s sold and many more games/accessories/downloads sold, only then can you say Sony won. I personally think games like GT5 will have an order of magnitude greater impact, and if PD made their game with DVD as a design constraint, IMO it wouldn't have cost them any sales whatsoever.

Microsoft, on the other hand, probably couldn't be happier. $3.5B spent on the 360 platform this year? Matching the peak of the PS2 era in the US? Wow. I don't think reducing the price to move more consoles would have helped them much.

Microsoft has other issues to worry about.

Has it occurred to you that this was Sony's plan all along? That one success would lead to others? Yes, nothing is written in stone, and they have to adapt to whatever their competitors/markets do as they go along, but perhaps their long term vision included using the PS3 to win the Format War long-term? PS3, like its predecessors is a long-term product, btw.

 

[....]

A better idea would be if they kept making the HD-DVD player, but made it a HD-DVD/Blu-ray combo drive instead. The likelyhood of that is probably nil. I just have a hard time seeing Microsoft ever adding support for BD-J/BDLive.

Tommy McClain

It will likely be there if bluray puts the final nails in the coffin(paramount, universal), and it will likely be there, built-in, for the next xbox too!

 

[Diamond.G]

You provide a cheap player, all you get is no CE will make players for your format because they cannot compete with the cheap player you provide. That's why only Toshiba makes HD-DVD players.

*Notes how the PS3 is the cheapest Full Spec BD Player out* *Reads your statement* *scratches head*

 

[Carl B]

*Notes how the PS3 is the cheapest Full Spec BD Player out* *Reads your statement* *scratches head*

Wait, I thought PS3 was a console... nobody uses those!

But seriously, I think it's obvious where even at its relatively low price compared to standalones, the market for standalones would still exist despite its presence. Not everyone interested in BD is reading forums afterall.

 

[acaeus]

*Notes how the PS3 is the cheapest Full Spec BD Player out* *Reads your statement* *scratches head*

Right now, yes. Once the PS2 was also the best (as in cost/benefit) dvd player out. In time, however, other CE produced better and cheaper stand-alone devices. And most people, myself included, prefer stand-alone players to consoles or devices such as the PS3.

Now, Toshiba has been producing subsided (very cheap) stand-alone HD-DVD players from the beginning. That's an invitation to all CE to stay away...

but don't take my word on it, look at the list of CE making blu-ray players, and compare that to HD-DVD.

 

[Carl B]

but don't take my word on it, look at the list of CE making blu-ray players, and compare that to HD-DVD.

To be fair though, although there is a point to be made as to the anathema the subsidization would represent, the truth is the original manufacturers making BD players were all also part of the BDA, and thus sided with the format from the outset. I'd say it was in fact that situation that allowed Toshiba to go all out on the pricing front, because they were essentially going it alone anyway. It's cyclical of course, but it would be wrong to say that Toshiba's prices alone were the factor.

 

[acaeus]

To be fair though, although there is a point to be made as to the anathema the subsidization would represent, the truth is the original manufacturers making BD players were all also part of the BDA, and thus sided with the format from the outset. I'd say it was in fact that situation that allowed Toshiba to go all out on the pricing front, because they were essentially going it alone anyway. It's cyclical of course, but it would be wrong to say that Toshiba's prices alone were the factor.

True, though I'd use "forced" instead of allowed. But it goes back to the original comment posted (to which I replied): I believe Sony is just doing what has worked for them before, and it seems to be working all over again.

 

[dobwal]

For the purpose of winning the war, it would have made far, far more sense to flood the market with 1/10th as many cheap standalone players. They get studio support, then stop subsidizing. The primary reason BR was made standard in PS3 was not to win the format war, because that's the most costly way to achieve it. Rather, its purpose is to be a selling point of the PS3. The person/committee who made this decision is probably surprised at the quality of DVD-based 360 games.

That seems backwards. Explain the logic behind that assertion.

Why does a Playstation need a BluRay drive to sell when MS and Wii have done nothing but used the same optical media technology as last generation.

Sony up to this time has been pretty good at winning the consoles wars but very spotty winning format wars. Explain to me how a proven brand needs a format with no track record?

Remove BluRay and the high cost it has asserted on the PS3's BOM and how does the PS3 sales? Whats happens to BluRay as a format in that scenario?

BluRay has benefitted far more in its relationship with the PS3 than the PS3 has benefitted with BluRay.

Licensing fees aren't really that big. That's why when Stringer thought it was a stalemate, he said it won't really affect Sony's financials very much.

You must be out your mind. Licensing fees from a dominant format such as DVD or CD is big business that generates tons of profit. DVD has generated more profits than the PS2 in the same time frame. you talking licensing fees (pennies) for the media itself plus the fees (dollars) generated per hardware. When I talking hardware, Im talking DVD players as well as DVD-ROM drives. In 2002, the total userbase was ~40 million for DVD players but total userbase was ~140 million for DVD ROM drives. What do you think those numbers are in 2008?

 

[quest55720]

Right now, yes. Once the PS2 was also the best (as in cost/benefit) dvd player out. In time, however, other CE produced better and cheaper stand-alone devices. And most people, myself included, prefer stand-alone players to consoles or devices such as the PS3.

Now, Toshiba has been producing subsided (very cheap) stand-alone HD-DVD players from the beginning. That's an invitation to all CE to stay away...

but don't take my word on it, look at the list of CE making blu-ray players, and compare that to HD-DVD.

Never in NA by the time the PS2 launched there were much better cheaper stand alone units fall 2000. People forget how rotten the PS2 was at DVD play back. Many titles back then had warning about compatibility issues with the PS2. That and the PQ was nasty compared to a cheaper stand alone.

 

[AlphaWolf]

You must be out your mind. Licensing fees from a dominant format such as DVD or CD is big business that generates tons of profit. DVD has generated more profits than the PS2 in the same time frame. you talking licensing fees (pennies) for the media itself plus the fees (dollars) generated per hardware. When I talking hardware, Im talking DVD players as well as DVD-ROM drives. In 2002, the total userbase was ~40 million for DVD players but total userbase was ~140 million for DVD ROM drives. What do you think those numbers are in 2008?

I think your numbers off a bit for the 2002 userbase, I think that the actual number of DVD standalones shipped in 2002 was ~40million.

From Wiki.

As of 2002 the largest producer of DVD players is China; in 2002 they produced 30 million players, more than 70% of the world output. These producers have to pay about US$20 per player in license fees, to the patent holders of the DVD technology (Sony, Philips, Toshiba and AOL Time Warner) as well as for MPEG-2 licenses. To avoid these fees, China has developed the Enhanced Versatile Disc standard as an intended successor of DVD; as of 2004, EVD players were only being sold in China.

 

[Zassk]

As I understand it, Panasonic is the main company to benefit from BD license fees, not Sony. BD is Panasonic's baby, while Sony have run with it.

 

["Nerve-Damage"]

As I understand it, Panasonic is the main company to benefit from BD license fees, not Sony. BD is Panasonic's baby, while Sony have run with it.

What???


Sony & Pioneer were the brainchilds behind the technology and as for the license fee's...Matsushita (Panasonic) doesn’t benefit any more than any other Blu-ray association member. Come to think of it, I don’t think there on the Board of Directors anymore.

 

[patsu]

Is their website up to date ?
http://www.blu-raydisc.com/general_information/Section-14009/Index.html

Board of Directors
Apple, Inc.
Dell
HP
Hitachi
LG
Mitsubishi Electric
Panasonic
Pioneer
Philips
Samsung
Sharp
Sony
Sun Microsystems
TDK
Thomson
Twentieth Century Fox
Walt Disney
Warner Bros.