Unreal Engine 5, [UE5 Developer Availability 2022-04-05]

Hmmm, I wonder if ML can figure out a really fast and low memory skinned animated mesh generation using pre-training...
Some initial stuff on that went into 5.1 I believe...

Some details:
 
You really begin to see just how wrong real-time graphics and lighting has been since the very beginning. I've told many people before... once your eyes get used to seeing RTGI and AO... you'll look back and wonder how you ever thought game graphics were realistic before that point.
Yeah indeed, I find that's true with a large variety of things. Ex. when I update to a new OS my initial impressions are always "ehh it's fine but a bit worse and buggier than the last one", but when I then have to go back and use - ex. Win7 again years later it's very obvious how much worse it is. Obviously both are moving targets in this case, but it's definitely a pattern I've noticed in general.

Similarly working with Nanite/Lumen stuff daily now when I play most other modern games the differences are that much more obvious. Everything looks a lot "flatter" in comparison, lacking depth in both lighting and silhouette detail.
 
Some context for those who missed it.

This shows HW-Reflections, it's has more resolution and reflects more off screen and dynamic (characters) stuff, SW-Reflections only have SSR to work with.

This shows HW-GI, it has more distance range to work with than SW-GI, it also applies to dynamic objects (the underside of the cars), SW-GI don't apply.

I personally tested this extensively, I parked several trucks in shades and lights, with HW-GI, the underside of the trucks is shaded with indirect shadows, with SW-GI, the underside of the trucks is not shaded at all. Performance is extremely similar too. On my system HW is a couple of fps faster.
 
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This shows HW-GI, it has more distance range to work with than SW-GI, it also applies to dynamic objects (the underside of the cars), SW-GI don't apply.
HwGi is obviously going to tend to be superior purely for the resolution increase, but aside form just precision something a little unique to sdfs vs proxy meshes is both sides are wrong, but they have different artifacts. I doubt there are any cases where you could obviously see this In Fortnite, but you can easily imagine cases — maybe like, a complicated realistic tree branch — where an aggressively decimated low res polygonal lod might result in big triangles thst completely distort the shape, vs the sdf providing a very low precision version of the original form. Just thinking out loud here though, probably not relevant at the resolution that sw nanite is running?
 
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Yeah indeed, I find that's true with a large variety of things. Ex. when I update to a new OS my initial impressions are always "ehh it's fine but a bit worse and buggier than the last one", but when I then have to go back and use - ex. Win7 again years later it's very obvious how much worse it is. Obviously both are moving targets in this case, but it's definitely a pattern I've noticed in general.

Similarly working with Nanite/Lumen stuff daily now when I play most other modern games the differences are that much more obvious. Everything looks a lot "flatter" in comparison, lacking depth in both lighting and silhouette detail.
Haha yes, absolutely. We could make all sorts of parallels. Lumen is such a big improvement it's not even funny. I can't wait to see future games utilizing it and doing tons of creative stuff with it. And yea it will be the same thing with Nanite and pop-in.. and as you say the lack of geometric depth in materials will really separate the new from the old. Regardless of how many polys the geometry consists of, the ability to have little to no visible pop-in between LODs is going to make a huge difference games, it's what really tricks you into believing something is pre-rendered and not rendered in real-time. All those little telltale signs are disappearing, and we're now getting incredibly stable visuals. The lines have been blurred.
 
it's ironic that we were all waiting for the first Nanite/Lumen game on console to see if it would be running at a stable 30fps, after the Matrix demo, and now the first released is running pretty well at 60. Of course it's less realistic, but still a great achievement.
BTW, i wonder how much space the lumen/nanite version takes, the game now is 41GB on PS5 EU version, and it still has the old graphics mode in it for the 120fps mode.
Would be interesting to have a size comparison between the two modes.
 
it's ironic that we were all waiting for the first Nanite/Lumen game on console to see if it would be running at a stable 30fps, after the Matrix demo, and now the first released is running pretty well at 60. Of course it's less realistic, but still a great achievement.
BTW, i wonder how much space the lumen/nanite version takes, the game now is 41GB on PS5 EU version, and it still has the old graphics mode in it for the 120fps mode.
Would be interesting to have a size comparison between the two modes.
Well we underestimated how much epic had optimized their technology to work for consoles after the demos they put out (their assumption probably being that getting their engine to run well on console as the baseline of the next generation essentially solves the problem across the board for the future hardware.


Their main issue as of now is not performance but software issues on PC, primarily SCS
 
it's ironic that we were all waiting for the first Nanite/Lumen game on console to see if it would be running at a stable 30fps, after the Matrix demo, and now the first released is running pretty well at 60. Of course it's less realistic, but still a great achievement.
BTW, i wonder how much space the lumen/nanite version takes, the game now is 41GB on PS5 EU version, and it still has the old graphics mode in it for the 120fps mode.
Would be interesting to have a size comparison between the two modes.
Art>realism anyway ;)
 
Fortnite actually has mirror self-reflections for the character on the PS4 version! There is really no way to add a blob barely looking like a human on PS5? For me it's such an eyesore and mirror aside we are often in front of reflecting surfaces when hiding in Fortnite.

JPYc2sV.png

1R9spxc.png

EDIT: The 120hz mode on PS5 also lacks the character reflection. So it's not only about lumen or nanite preventing it.
 
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it's ironic that we were all waiting for the first Nanite/Lumen game on console to see if it would be running at a stable 30fps, after the Matrix demo, and now the first released is running pretty well at 60. Of course it's less realistic, but still a great achievement.
BTW, i wonder how much space the lumen/nanite version takes, the game now is 41GB on PS5 EU version, and it still has the old graphics mode in it for the 120fps mode.
Would be interesting to have a size comparison between the two modes.

Should be doing 60fps as the settings are dialed back together with a 1080p drs solution.
 
Fortnite actually has mirror self-reflections for the character on the PS4 version! There is really no way to add a blob barely looking like a human on PS5? For me it's such an eyesore and mirror aside we are often in front of reflecting surfaces when hiding in Fortnite.

JPYc2sV.png

1R9spxc.png

EDIT: The 120hz mode on PS5 also lacks the character reflection. So it's not only about lumen or nanite preventing it.
With that, I can 100% confirm the consoles are using software Raytracing.

reflections.png

I had to beat some high level Fortnite players to get these results though. Everyone who came through that bathroom door got a taste of my mighty axe! Don't you dare ruining my graphics tests :devilish:
 
when you "play" with the replay mode, you can pause the action, and by doing so, you also pause the lumen lighting updating in some way.
And that purple light source, it seems to behave in screen space.


 
More HW-Lumen off/on comparisons, courtesy of Resetera. They basically show two things: hardware lumen extends the GI range more, and adds a lot more indirect shadows to the scene. Distant trees and objects have better GI in HW than SW, and indirect lighting/AO for close objects is way more extensive in HW than SW

Based on this, I reiterate my opinion: Almost all UE5 games on PC will enable HW-Lumen and HW-Reflections, they add tremendously to the scene at no additional fps cost, and thdy don't require any added work from the developers.

 
That's quite a difference. I wonder how that person from ResetEra achieved this. It's the exact same spot and TOD. But how...!? HW-RT requires a restart.
He recorded his latest match as "gameplay demo". He can playback "replay" that demo with any settings and any camera angle.

 
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That one's a mixed bag. The big tree in the center looks so much better with HW RT off. The tree trunk loses a lot of detail (most of the nicks and burrs) with HW RT enabled and the leaves lose a lot of detail as well. I wonder if the tree is dropping down a detail level with HW RT on or something?

OTOH shadows are definitely more constrasty with HW RT on.

Regards,
SB
 
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