TSMC warns of excessive chip inventory

Lack of any supply issues of products built on the same process is "anecdotal evidence" to you? So when some company says something which no other company is apparently experiencing then all of them lying?
I'm not sure what you're trying to say. If you're going to disregard Sony financials statements, similar statements by a number of auto makers and TSMC publicly acknowledging the chip supply problem, there is nothing I can say to convince you. Just because I have food in my fridge doesn't mean there are famines in Africa. :-?
 
Did you read the OP?

Yes. Did you read my post? Let me quote the import part.

TSMC clearly have some customers which too much booked capacity and others with too little, there are must be some instances where people with too much Nx (N7, N6, N5) capacity can be re-alocated to people with too little. TSMC definitely have the contractual high-ground here, but they need to keep their customers happy.

Apple and Nvidia having too much stock or line capacity does not help Sony and the people supplying the auto industry. The OP statement is setting financial expectations, it's not in any way saying there still aren't severe shortages elsewhere.
 
Apple and Nvidia having too much stock or line capacity does not help Sony and the people supplying the auto industry.
So we're back to Sony not actually ordering enough capacity in the first place for whatever reasons, not TSMC supply being the issue. Right?
Auto industry doesn't use advanced nodes for the most part so their issues may not even be related to TSMC, just like Nvidia's issues with current lineup isn't (I very much doubt that Nvidia has issues selling GA100 chips).
 
So we're back to Sony not actually ordering enough capacity in the first place for whatever reasons, not TSMC supply being the issue. Right?
No. Because if there was ample manufacturing capacity, Sony and the folks supplying the auto makers could get access to the lines they need. TSMC has always maintained spare capacity for unforeseen requirements for popular nodes. That is all tapped out.

That is the supply issue. I am not responding on this any more, there are only so many ways I can say the same thing and this conversation has become tedious. Perhaps you can find somebody else to explain the problem to you.
 
No. Because if there was ample manufacturing capacity, Sony and the folks supplying the auto makers could get access to the lines they need. TSMC has always maintained spare capacity for unforeseen requirements for popular nodes. That is all tapped out.
But it obviously isn't, as the recent reports are saying and the reality around us is showing.

That is the supply issue. I am not responding on this any more, there are only so many ways I can say the same thing and this conversation has become tedious. Perhaps you can find somebody else to explain the problem to you.
There is no "supply issue" with PS5, at least not with TSMC's chips supply. The issue is wholly with Sony's demand predictions.
Let me present a different angle to you: PS5 is selling basically in the exact same numbers as PS4 did over the same period of its lifetime. This shows a) that Sony simply planned to produce the same number of PS5s as PS4s has sold 6 years prior, it's the easiest option to predict demand really. And b) that there is no "supply problem" since the sales are basically going in line with Sony's expectations. PS5 has sold the same number of units as PS4 - which certainly wasn't supply limited after it's ~3 months launch window.
The fact that the demand for PS5 remains higher than supply is not an issue of supply - it's an issue of Sony underestimating said demand. Whether due to covid or crypto boom, doesn't matter. They've simply preordered a capacity which wasn't enough to satisfy said demand, and are (were?) unable to renegotiate said preorder to increase the supply.
Thus you can't use PS5 example as a point against the possible overproduction at TSMC as PS5 has been severely underproduced and remains in high demand because of this. Any other chip (with the exception of GPUs which were all going into mining rigs) produced at N7 family of processes has not been in such a high demand since around spring of 2021 - including SoCs for Xbox Series consoles btw, XSS especially.
 
Lack of any supply issues of products built on the same process is "anecdotal evidence" to you? So when some company says something which no other company is apparently experiencing then all of these other companies are lying? Or maybe it's just that one company who can't admit that for whatever reasons they can't order enough chips for their products, and this isn't at all related to some "supply issue"?

I mean this thread is about TSMC outright saying that they are producing *too many* chips right now. And Nvidia (and thus GPU miners) don't even make chips at TSMC just yet. So what does this tell us and how exactly is Sony's issue with PS5 volume a "supply issue" at this point?
No they're not. They're saying certain markets have oversupply of chips. It doesn't mean other markets aren't starved for chips.
 
So you're putting PS5 into automotive or data center market then?
I'm not putting PS5 anywhere. I'm only talking about the chip shortage which is still very much a fact despite some markets being over it already.
 
But it obviously isn't, as the recent reports are saying and the reality around us is showing.

What reports? What the hell are you even reading? From the last week's investor call as reported by the FT.

FT said:
“We do have mid-thirties growth this year, but we also expect our customers to start to take action to reduce their inventory levels — the inventory correction will last at least into first half of 2023,” TSMC’s chief executive CC Wei told investors on an earnings call.

“Despite that, we expect our capacity to remain tight and our business to remain more resilient than the industry overall.”

"Inventory correction" is how TSMC now refer to their supply issues. This is their term for excess supply to some customers, whilst others lack supply. Also from the article OP linked. To be clear, this is TSMC's CEO speaking last Thursday:

CC Wei said:
"Our suppliers have been facing greater challenges in supply chains, which are extending tool delivery times for both our advanced and mature nodes. To be clear, the chip shortage is far from over. While inventory for the high-end chips found in modern consumer gadgets is increasing, demand in other market segments, including data centers and automotive, has remained steady. Supply for those areas is tight, and TSMC must reallocate resources to account for such steady demand. Doing so may not be enough, as the chipmaker says consumer needs will continue to exceed “our ability to supply.”

How much clearer does it need to be?

There is no "supply issue" with PS5, at least not with TSMC's chips supply. The issue is wholly with Sony's demand predictions.

And yet, TSMC couldn't supply what Sony ordered which is what led to several revised PS5 sales reduction predictions.

I'm have no idea why you're denying this problem exists but you're the only who believes it.
 
I'm not putting PS5 anywhere. I'm only talking about the chip shortage which is still very much a fact despite some markets being over it already.
We'll see how long this "fact" will remain now, as the main driver of "shortage" is out. I fully expect automotive to become very silent on the issue in the coming months for example.

"Inventory correction" is how TSMC now refer to their supply issues.
If by "supply issues" here you mean oversupply then sure.

How much clearer does it need to be?
And what do you expect a company who was making billions off this whole situation to say to investors?

And yet, TSMC couldn't supply what Sony ordered which is what led to several revised PS5 sales reduction predictions.
TSMC couldn't supply or Sony was unwilling to pay for said supply? There's obviously enough N7 supply to produce a situation in which "customers ... start to take action to reduce their inventory levels". Only Sony somehow seem to be affected by said "supply issue" on the same process. Weird, I know.
 
If by "supply issues" here you mean oversupply then sure. And what do you expect a company who was making billions off this whole situation to say to investors?

It's interesting that you recognise the oversupply and yet refuse to accept the under supply. And I expect TSMC to focus on over supply to investors, because that sounds good. But I don't expect people to blindly believe it. I mean all the reporting highlights the issues, TSMC's CEO literally said "To be clear, the chip shortage is far from over." last Thursday but here you are denying there is a shortage.
TSMC couldn't supply or Sony was unwilling to pay for said supply? There's obviously enough N7 supply to produce a situation in which "customers ... start to take action to reduce their inventory levels". Only Sony somehow seem to be affected by said "supply issue" on the same process. Weird, I know.

The fault is clearly with TSMC. How so? Because if Sony mades sales predictions when it hadn't ordered enough components to meet the then that would be misleading investors, which is pretty damn serious. It would further be misleading investors when Sony publicly blamed sales targets reductions on the chip shortages. That's also blaming TSMC who I am sure would have dome something about that if it weren't true.

But you're already down some bonkers rabbit hole of denial so for my own sanity, I'm sticking you on my ignore list. Ciao.
 
It's interesting that you recognise the oversupply and yet refuse to accept the under supply.
Because there never was any "under supply". There was "over demand" which lead to many chip designers getting huge profits on top of what they were expecting and selling X times more than they've planned. I don't know how that would be possible with "under supply". The only party who's at fault in a situation where they weren't able to secure a higher production capacity than originally planned is the one which was securing it. Their reasons may be valid mind you (there are many possible scenarios which would make such production increase impossible for a home console product) but they still have nothing to do with "under supply" from a silicon foundry.

But you're already down some bonkers rabbit hole of denial so for my own sanity, I'm sticking you on my ignore list. Ciao.
Bye.
 
There are absolutely supply issues for some industries and even in some markets which currently have excess supply for the major players in those markets.

Just one example of a multitude of supply issues.


And that's despite Boeing seeing lower demand for it's aircraft. Lower demand and Boeing is still experiencing difficulty sourcing semiconductor components for their aircraft.

WRT - NV not currently making most of their chips at TSMC, that doesn't matter.

If the PC market currently has an oversupply and PC parts suppliers are thus scaling back production of PC parts which then impacts demand for silicon used in those PC parts that means that TSMC will have less orders from major players for future products.

Basically an oversupply of Samsung made GPUs will impact future production of TSMC fabbed parts if a major PC fabless semiconductor company were in the process of switching production from one fab to another.

That's basically the gist of TSMC's forecast warning for it's investors. Future production is being impacted by a current glut in silicon in the PC market as well as a few other markets. It doesn't matter if that glut is due to production from another fab or their own fab. What matters is that future capacity for companies that had booked large capacity are now in a situation where they are unable to use all of that capacity and thus TSMC will move capacity to other companies who weren't able to bid as high in order to get more capacity.

NOTE that TSMC didn't mention consoles as being a market impacted by this. That's because the console market unlike the PC market doesn't have a glut of surplus chips. AFAIK, consoles have never been grouped with the PC market, otherwise AMD's GPU share would be quite significantly higher. Consoles are likely in the "high end consumer gadget" catch all that TSMC used. That group was noted as suffering from increasing demand and thus is greatly supply constrained WRT production at TSMC. And is where capacity is being shifted to.

I'm sure both AMD and NV can shift some of their purchased wafer capacity to consoles (AMD), automotive (NV) and datacenter (both). But datacenter is noted as being steady (IE - relatively flat demand). We don't know if shortages on automotive are due to NV being unable to supply automotive partners or, far more likely IMO, other companies providing chips to auto makers who don't have the bidding clout that NV has to secure wafer starts. So, automotive may not be able to absorb a lot of NV's potentially excess fab capacity at TSMC. AMD will be able to move some of their excess GPU fab capacity to CPUs as well as console SOCs. However even with that, that may not be enough to absorb all of the wafer starts that AMD has.

Regards,
SB
 
PC and consoles have a different marketshare. The number of PC sales is globally insanely much higher than console sales. The PC sales arent going to be below console ones, they have been temporarely ramped up due to the pandemic and mining the last two years. Demand for consoles is lower, albeit supply shortage still affects sales there aswell ofcourse.
 

Hey look it's not just GPUs. Who could've thought.
Yay, now we have two markets where there's oversupply. Meanwhile you continue to ignore everything else even when the manufacturer outright says how it is without any room for speculation.
 
Let's wait another day then?
While we wait that, could you explain how miners caused first shortage and now sluggishness on something which has absolutely nothing to do with mining and is manufactured in a semiconductor plant which has never produced any GPUs?
 
While we wait that, could you explain how miners caused first shortage and now sluggishness on something which has absolutely nothing to do with mining and is manufactured in a semiconductor plant which has never produced any GPUs?
Easy. TSMC being at 150% capacity producing mining *things* for the last couple of years meant that everyone else (those who produce other *things* which happen to not sell with 1000% profit) had to wait in a long line to produce anything.
 
Back
Top