"Trilinear" Filtering in Motion

[K.I.L.E.R]

Mike, I guess there is an interesting lesson here for Kyle. If you are going to argue with someone, it's best not to do it with one who has a website.

Why can't people stop turning every thread into a Kyle based one?
I think you people are giving him far too much publicity.

 

[Brent]

Hey Mike,

that's a good one, thanks for doing this! I'm impressed these days about how you guys at nvnews handle the situation. Most of you see the truth and say it. My hat's off to you... Btw, did you post this at HardOCP?

I see no mipmap lines in the first video, but I do see at least one crystal clear mipmap line in the second one, which I find very annoying.

Brent, are you listening? Now I'd *really* like to hear your opinion about this.

yes, i'm listening

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=648569

 

[K.I.L.E.R]

Brent, haven't you got 2 accounts? Or at least I have seen 2. One has your full name in it.

Brent "purchased" FRAPS 2.0?

 

[Brent]

Brent, haven't you got 2 accounts? Or at least I have seen 2. One has your full name in it.

Brent "purchased" FRAPS 2.0?

My full name is Brent Justice, I only have one account here.

HardOCP purchased Fraps 2.0. I ordered it yesterday in fact, so we can capture in-game video at full size at 30fps.

 

[K.I.L.E.R]

Is it just me or does your name sound really cool.
It sounds like one of those names from action movies.
"I AM THE LAW!"

Sorry, got a little carried away.

Brent, haven't you got 2 accounts? Or at least I have seen 2. One has your full name in it.

Brent "purchased" FRAPS 2.0?

My full name is Brent Justice, I only have one account here.

HardOCP purchased Fraps 2.0. I ordered it yesterday in fact, so we can capture in-game video at full size at 30fps.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Brent, haven't you got 2 accounts? Or at least I have seen 2. One has your full name in it.

Brent "purchased" FRAPS 2.0?

There's a Brent_Anderson who posts a lot, but it's a different person.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Hey Mike,

that's a good one, thanks for doing this! I'm impressed these days about how you guys at nvnews handle the situation. Most of you see the truth and say it. My hat's off to you... Btw, did you post this at HardOCP?

I see no mipmap lines in the first video, but I do see at least one crystal clear mipmap line in the second one, which I find very annoying.

Brent, are you listening? Now I'd *really* like to hear your opinion about this.

yes, i'm listening

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=648569

"The page cannot be displayed"

Did you put the wrong link or was it already selectively edited for content not sui[t]able for your forums definition of reality?

 

[Brent]

Hey Mike,

that's a good one, thanks for doing this! I'm impressed these days about how you guys at nvnews handle the situation. Most of you see the truth and say it. My hat's off to you... Btw, did you post this at HardOCP?

I see no mipmap lines in the first video, but I do see at least one crystal clear mipmap line in the second one, which I find very annoying.

Brent, are you listening? Now I'd *really* like to hear your opinion about this.

yes, i'm listening

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=648569

"The page cannot be displayed"

Did you put the wrong link or was it already selectively edited for content not sui[t]able for your forums definition of reality?

the forum is down right now apparently

 

[Bouncing Zabaglione Bros.]

the forum is down right now apparently

Has it comitted hari-kari in shame?

 

[Mark]

Are we talking driver set to App Pref and trilinear forced via UT2K3 ini file? Both had fairly obvious MIP-maps, but the second had a very harsh MIP-map transition between the first and second MIP-maps.

As an aside, I honestly don't think I've noticed MIP-map transitions with my 9100. I have 16xAF on all the time, and it probably pushes the MIP-maps back so far that it's not easily noticable in-game (mainly Wolf:ET). I do notice texture shimmer in some games (the Tiger Woods 2003 demo), though I don't know if that's ATi's AF's fault, or LOD bias, or the game itself.

The higher resolution you run, the farther back the mip boundary goes. 16xAF @ 1600x1200 is a lot farther back than 16xAF @ 800x600. That's the nature of Anisotropic Filtering of course, but it was interesting enough for me back in December when I first noticed it that I made this to demonstrate the differences.

 

[Pete]

So, Mike, just to be clear: which is which? To be specific, are we looking at real trilinear on the ATi card vs. bi-trilinear on the nVidia card, or are we looking at bi-tri nVidia vs. bi ATi? The abrupt transition in one video seems too sharp to be a bi-tri mix. Or is nV's bi-tri mix that horrible-looking in motion, and it just looks decent in the synthetic AF tester everyone uses (sorry, I forgot who coded it)?

 

[Mark]

1.avi transistions a lot better than 2.avi (which I think is pure bilinear), but I don't think either of them are spectacular.

 

[Hanners]

The higher resolution you run, the farther back the mip boundary goes. 16xAF @ 1600x1200 is a lot farther back than 16xAF @ 800x600. That's the nature of Anisotropic Filtering of course, but it was interesting enough for me back in December when I first noticed it that I made this to demonstrate the differences.

I can't believe I never noticed that page at the time.

It's a really neat little tool, nice work!


As for the videos, number one clearly looks much better, the mip-map transitions on video two are clearly visible, I don't know how anyone can not see them.

 

[Mark]

The higher resolution you run, the farther back the mip boundary goes. 16xAF @ 1600x1200 is a lot farther back than 16xAF @ 800x600. That's the nature of Anisotropic Filtering of course, but it was interesting enough for me back in December when I first noticed it that I made this to demonstrate the differences.

I can't believe I never noticed that page at the time.

Only because I never mentioned it before today

 

[MikeC]

So, Mike, just to be clear: which is which? To be specific, are we looking at real trilinear on the ATi card vs. bi-trilinear on the nVidia card

Look at the driver and UT2003.ini settings in my first post

Video 1 was from a Radeon 9800 Pro and video 2 was from a GeForce FX 5900 Ultra.

However, I've continued testing with the GeForce FX 5900 Ultra today and what you see in the video clip is definately a worst-case scenario. I haven't been able to find other areas where the mipmap transition is that pronounced. I'm getting ready to head out for a few hours and plan to put together some more examples when I return.

 

[Pete]

Mike, I reread your edited first post, but I wanted to be crystal clear since we know now IHVs don't always provide what you ask for. Thanks for the clarification.

You mention this is a worst-case scenario, but you can't find similar situations when crossing a bridge or a large room?

Ratchet, that's very interesting. Is this the first time someone has noticed this, or am I the only one who didn't realize that MIP-maps get pushed back with higher res (similar to higher AF)?

 

[PaulS]

I suspect it's the fact that the ground is sloped, then flat, which makes it more noticeable over just plain rooms with flat floors.

 

[Doomtrooper]

Yes that is true, or even long stairs like "Halls of Anubis", I've already saw the exact same thing when I played around with a friends 5600.

Static screen shots do not show the truth, like [H] tried to mislead its readers with.

 

[BRiT]

DT, I think you're stretching things a bit far. Do not attribute to conspiracy that which can be explained by ignorance and stupidity.

 

[Dio]

It's a favourite quote of mine, but I prefer to put it as 'I hate to see malfeasance when incompetence is so much more common'.