"Trilinear" Filtering in Motion

Discussion in 'Graphics and Semiconductor Industry' started by MikeC, Aug 2, 2003.

  1. MikeC

    Newcomer

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2002
    Messages:
    194
    Likes Received:
    0
    I created more videos with anisotropic filtering enabled. Driver settings are shown in the first post in this thread. The level of anisotropic filtering was set in the UT2003.ini file.

    An easy way to set anisotopic filtering without exiting the game is by entering "preferences" in the console (~). Expand the Rendering option, then the Direct3D support option. Type in the filtering level in the LevelOfAnisotrophy. Don't press enter. Just close the Advanced Options window.

    Control will return to UT2003, which will be running in a window. Press Alt-Enter to return to full screen.

    Here are the videos I've created so far:


    GeForce FX 5900 Ultra:

    Trilinear - http://www.nvnews.net/temp/2.avi
    4X AF - http://www.nvnews.net/temp/2-4x-af.avi
    8X AF - http://www.nvnews.net/temp/2-8x-af.avi

    Radeon 9800 Pro:

    Trilinear - http://www.nvnews.net/temp/1.avi
    4X AF - http://www.nvnews.net/temp/1-4x-af.avi
    8X AF - http://www.nvnews.net/temp/1-8x-af.avi
    16X AF - http://www.nvnews.net/temp/1-16x-af.avi


    Anyway, this has been a fun project. But now that I look back, I jotted down a few of my own questions and even answered some of them :)


    From NVIDIA's GeForce FX 5900 Ultra Reviewers Guide:
    Quality Image Setting - "offers users the highest image quality while still delivering exceptional performance."


    From NVIDIA's GeForce FX 5600 Ultra Reviewers Guide:
    Application Image Setting - "will use whichever texture filtering settings the application requests."


    Why was the Application Image Setting replaced with the Quality Image Setting? Don't know.


    Does the Quality Image Setting deliver trilinear texture filtering in UT2003? Maybe some of the time, maybe on certain textures, but I really don't know for sure.


    Is this a bug? Maybe, but the definition in the reviewers guide would indicate that it's not.


    Is the Quality Image Setting a technique that can be used to increase performance at the expense of image quality? Possibly, according to the definition in the reviewers guide.


    But what exactly does "highest image quality" mean in this case? Is it the highest image quality you can get on the GeForce FX 5900 Ultra or is it the highest image quality when compared to the competition?


    Edited: Corrected the filenames for the videos.
     
  2. digitalwanderer

    digitalwanderer Dangerously Mirthful
    Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2002
    Messages:
    17,329
    Likes Received:
    1,822
    Location:
    Winfield, IN USA
    Yes, could you please answer the previous question Brent? You know the one. ;)
     
  3. volt

    Regular

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2002
    Messages:
    365
    Likes Received:
    3
    Such "approvals" should be made public. A general confusion, just like this one only brings unnecessary chaos into the table. What NVIDIA stated in their NV35 PDFs should have been available via application, regardless what the drivers forced. But when you have application specific optimizations, that's not really possible isn't it...
     
  4. nelg

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2003
    Messages:
    1,557
    Likes Received:
    42
    Location:
    Toronto
  5. StealthHawk

    Regular

    Joined:
    May 27, 2003
    Messages:
    459
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    I exist
    Ok, so I take it this confirms that you did NOT use trilinear AF with the ATI cards when doing the UT2003 filtering article?

    Does this mean that you will take a second look while properly enabling trilinear AF for the ATI cards?

    Or is this a done deal, and there will be no more front page/articles commenting on the issue at [H].
     
  6. StealthHawk

    Regular

    Joined:
    May 27, 2003
    Messages:
    459
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    I exist
    Ok, I think I can understand and respect that decision.

    However, I'm not sure what the point of the article was? Using your test conditions neither NVIDIA nor ATI was doing full trilinear AF. Therefore, I'm not really sure what the point of comparing ATI to NVIDIA was at all. In the article, as well as in the forums, it seems that [H]'s position is that the UT2003 optimization by NVIDIA is perfectly valid. Kyle has said this. But, on what basis? You did not show your readers whether or not there was any actual differences between NVIDIA's shortcut methods and real trilinear.

    I also think that a lot of people were confused and thought that ATI was using full trilinear when AF was enabled, when they were not. This is my belief, because I have run across several people who say "there is no problem with what NVIDIA is doing because it does not decrease IQ." However, you did not compare NVIDIA's filtering with full trilinear filtering, but with ATI's shortcut filtering. Clearly many people who read your article are confused about what is actually being compared.
     
  7. jb

    jb
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2002
    Messages:
    1,636
    Likes Received:
    7
    Brent,

    thanks for taking the time to reply back here. Its good to see that you are not afraid to stick to your guns. I do dissagree with the statement about not noticing them much in on-line play. Not every one runs around twiching shooting everything in site. I tend to play with more team games were my sniping skills can be put to use. So I set up places were I can "ambush" the other team. With new mods thanks to the MSU contest these types of things start to become more and more noticible. For example if your in a round based mod, you die, then while your waiting to respawn you start to notice a lot of things :) And yes I for some reason spend a lot of my time in that "waiting to respawn state" for some reason :)
     
  8. Dave Baumann

    Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh...
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    14,079
    Likes Received:
    648
    Location:
    O Canada!
    Errr, I've just noticed this...

    Brent - this is a surprise??

    I keep telling people to read B3D more :!: :!: :D
     
  9. K.I.L.E.R

    K.I.L.E.R Retarded moron
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2002
    Messages:
    2,952
    Likes Received:
    50
    Location:
    Australia, Melbourne
    Brent is kind of slow. ;)
    No Brent, I didn't mean slow as in mentally retarded, I mean slow as in takes time to catch up with old news type of slow. :lol:

     
  10. digitalwanderer

    digitalwanderer Dangerously Mirthful
    Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2002
    Messages:
    17,329
    Likes Received:
    1,822
    Location:
    Winfield, IN USA
    "Must resist urge to add comment involving short bus and a bracketed "T"....", mutters the Dig thru clenched teeth.
     
  11. Quitch

    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2003
    Messages:
    1,521
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    UK
    I have to say, Brent sure does get it easy here. I mean, if Kyle had come onto the forums saying things like "I don't like to post opinions, I don't want to be subjective... IMO differences were there but I don't feel they affected me much" then there would be flames by the thousand.

    How long can we sit around and think that "Brent's our man at [H]" when such glaringly obvious facts are laid down before him, and turned aside.

    I'm hardly techy on video hardware, and only really started following things when the nVidia cheats started, and all I've done is read B3D, yet it's bloody obvious to me exactly what is happening. Why do others find it so difficult?

    If anything, Brent is far more dangerous than Kyle, simply because people feel he's far more honest. All the while he continues to post false information under a guise of confusion, then does nothing about it. It boggles the mind.
     
  12. digitalwanderer

    digitalwanderer Dangerously Mirthful
    Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2002
    Messages:
    17,329
    Likes Received:
    1,822
    Location:
    Winfield, IN USA
    You probably have a point, but we still love Brent anyways and are trying to keep him from 'turning to the [T] side'. ;)

    I personally don't think Brent will answer this thread anymore, he can't. :lol:
     
  13. Pete

    Pete Moderate Nuisance
    Moderator Veteran

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    4,966
    Likes Received:
    371
    Brent is a nice guy, at least. Kyle can be, how shall we say, not nice. See his speculation on the impetus for ET's 3DM03 expose, or his response to Reverend in a recent [H]forum thread, for examples.
     
  14. Dave Baumann

    Dave Baumann Gamerscore Wh...
    Moderator Legend

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2002
    Messages:
    14,079
    Likes Received:
    648
    Location:
    O Canada!
    :?:

    Anyway, Brent has displayed on numerous occasions that hes willing to be open minded and learn.
     
  15. digitalwanderer

    digitalwanderer Dangerously Mirthful
    Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2002
    Messages:
    17,329
    Likes Received:
    1,822
    Location:
    Winfield, IN USA
    No argument there and thus me optimism on his future, but he can't say a yes or no to the mipmap line question without screwing himself over either way.

    He's kind of backed himself into a corner by using them qualifiers previously on his comments, they're the ambiguity he needs to say it with a clear concious....without them he can't say it without out-right lying.

    IMHO, I think, my theory, yada-yada-yada-ya.

    The almost-trilinear justifomercial on [H] is still his most questionable work IMHO, and I believe he feels the same way but can't say it.

    So I try and drive that point home rather blatantly. ;)
     
  16. StealthHawk

    Regular

    Joined:
    May 27, 2003
    Messages:
    459
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    I exist
    On the other hand, Kyle has shown multiple times that he IS willing to be subjective and not objective. So if Kyle came here saying that, he would clearly be a lying hypocrite. AFAIK, Brent has not been hypocritical. So although people may disagree with what he should be doing, and what his repsonsibilities as a journalist are, there aren't too many issues people have with him.
     
  17. Reverend

    Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2002
    Messages:
    3,266
    Likes Received:
    24
    When you stay quiet on certain issues (eg. Brent), you're both damned (for staying quiet) and praised ("He hasn't said anything because he probably doesn't know enough... that should be the way") as well.

    When you sound out on certain issues (eg. Kyle) with the general public disagreeing with your opinion, you're damned outright.

    Oh boy... the rigours of being associated officially with a media outlet.
     
  18. K.I.L.E.R

    K.I.L.E.R Retarded moron
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2002
    Messages:
    2,952
    Likes Received:
    50
    Location:
    Australia, Melbourne
    Brent is cool. He has a cool name. Brent Justice. I swear he should go into the action business. Make Brent Justice action figures. :)

    Or Brent can become an action hero. :)

    Main thing I like about Brent is that he didn't leave these forums. :)
    Oh and he has a cool surname. :p
     
  19. digitalwanderer

    digitalwanderer Dangerously Mirthful
    Legend

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2002
    Messages:
    17,329
    Likes Received:
    1,822
    Location:
    Winfield, IN USA
    The problem is Brent wasn't quiet on the issue, he was quite vocal and outspoken on it until he was cornered to give a straight answer about it. ;)

    Staying quiet is just peachy, but selective silence can be hard to pull off at times.
     
Loading...

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Beyond3D has been around for over a decade and prides itself on being the best place on the web for in-depth, technically-driven discussion and analysis of 3D graphics hardware. If you love pixels and transistors, you've come to the right place!

    Beyond3D is proudly published by GPU Tools Ltd.
Loading...