To the Married Men -- Temptations
- Thread starter Reverend
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Diplo said:
this is a "famous quote" worthy statement.
Nothing. I will never say I don't think about other women and wonder what it'd be like to have sex with them. In fact, I do that a lot! But of course I will never actually do it.K.I.L.E.R said:What are you hiding Rev?
The thing I said about knowing I would not be unfaithful to my wife when I married her is the sub-concious thing -- it's a given, not something I have to think about.
I started this thread when last night, after my wife came back from a dinner gathering of her colleagues, we looked at the photos snapped during the dinner and I had asked/commented to her "Who's this? She's very pretty." and she said "She's pretty?". I mean, that colleague of hers is evidently pretty and I found it humorous that my wife had to question me
That night, I was thinking of that colleague of hers. Hence this thread.I'm not married, and don't even have a girlfriend at all currently. But I'm kind of in the opposite end of the question here.
There's this wonderful girl (personality and looks) who now and then flirts with me. She's probably not interested in anything more than just that, since she's married with a nice guy (or so he seem the few times I've met him). But I don't want to take the risk.
I must say it's &%# hard to keep biting my tounge to avoid encourageing her. I'd hate myself if I'd mess with someones marriage, especially if it's someone I care so much about as her. (Was that some kind of paradox? :?)
PS
By "flirting" I meant verbal appreciation that is more than just being friendly, nothing physical, or talk about doing anything physical. OK, maybe a hand on a shoulder to get attention.
PS2
One kind of more physical "flirting" that I consider OK is Salsa dancing. I wouldn't hesitate to do some Salsa dancing with a married girl (or with any girl if I myself would be married), even though it's a rather close and "sexy" dance. Because around here it's understood that any "flirting" on the Salsa floor is just the dance, and it stops at the end of the dance floor. (It's not necesarily the same with other dances, or around certain groups of people. It's usually easy to tell though.)
Of course if you actually do flirt with a girl outside the dance floor too, the dance do take a whole new dimension.
There's this wonderful girl (personality and looks) who now and then flirts with me. She's probably not interested in anything more than just that, since she's married with a nice guy (or so he seem the few times I've met him). But I don't want to take the risk.
I must say it's &%# hard to keep biting my tounge to avoid encourageing her. I'd hate myself if I'd mess with someones marriage, especially if it's someone I care so much about as her. (Was that some kind of paradox? :?)
PS
By "flirting" I meant verbal appreciation that is more than just being friendly, nothing physical, or talk about doing anything physical. OK, maybe a hand on a shoulder to get attention.
PS2
One kind of more physical "flirting" that I consider OK is Salsa dancing. I wouldn't hesitate to do some Salsa dancing with a married girl (or with any girl if I myself would be married), even though it's a rather close and "sexy" dance. Because around here it's understood that any "flirting" on the Salsa floor is just the dance, and it stops at the end of the dance floor. (It's not necesarily the same with other dances, or around certain groups of people. It's usually easy to tell though.)
Of course if you actually do flirt with a girl outside the dance floor too, the dance do take a whole new dimension.
DemoCoder said:
Congratulations on the pregnancy!
Salsa is not as sexy nor as "flirtative" as out-and-out "Hug as tight as you can" slow dancing. That has happened to me on quite a few occasions with different girls [way back before I got married (11 years now)... nowadays, the only slow dances I get are with my wife and by myself!] and I know I'd gotten hard several times then!!!
I agree.
And that's why I thought that Salsa dancing is OK for anyone with anyone, but not necesarily other dances.
"Hug as tight as you can" slow dancing is the norm in the "meat markets", at least later at night. But on the other hand, I'd call it quite inapropriate if you have someone else in your life.
Salsa has a much higher flirtation vs inapropriateness ratio, even though you only get the occational close hug, or leg wrapped around you.
And that's why I thought that Salsa dancing is OK for anyone with anyone, but not necesarily other dances.
"Hug as tight as you can" slow dancing is the norm in the "meat markets", at least later at night. But on the other hand, I'd call it quite inapropriate if you have someone else in your life.
Salsa has a much higher flirtation vs inapropriateness ratio, even though you only get the occational close hug, or leg wrapped around you.
This is a really interesting thread.
I guess a lot of this thread kind of revolves around what you consider cheating. I've never had sex with another woman nor have I ever kissed or made out with another woman. Both my wife and I regularly flirt with with other people (mostly just our friends) though, and it's not a big deal for either of us. It's fun, and it's a nice little boost for your self esteme. A lot of this revolves around respecting what each other is comfortable with. There are guys that I do not like my wife flirting with, and she respects that (Generally she doesn't want to flirt with them anyway because they are the posessive one-up-manship type of guys). There are also girls that my wife isn't ok with me flirting with, and I try to respect that too. Then there are other people where we almost encourage each other to see how much we can get away with.
I think the question of cheating really revolves around respecting each other more than anything. There are cases where I would be more upset with my wife for dancing with one guy (especially if she knew I wasn't ok with it) than flirting or maybe even making out with another guy.
What I think is interesting is that as we've gotten older, we've gotten a lot more liberal about this kind of thing than we were when we first started dating. Neither of us are nearly as posessive with each other as we used to be. It's more about making sure that we both are happy.
Nite_Hawk
I guess a lot of this thread kind of revolves around what you consider cheating. I've never had sex with another woman nor have I ever kissed or made out with another woman. Both my wife and I regularly flirt with with other people (mostly just our friends) though, and it's not a big deal for either of us. It's fun, and it's a nice little boost for your self esteme.
A lot of this revolves around respecting what each other is comfortable with. There are guys that I do not like my wife flirting with, and she respects that (Generally she doesn't want to flirt with them anyway because they are the posessive one-up-manship type of guys). There are also girls that my wife isn't ok with me flirting with, and I try to respect that too. Then there are other people where we almost encourage each other to see how much we can get away with. I think the question of cheating really revolves around respecting each other more than anything. There are cases where I would be more upset with my wife for dancing with one guy (especially if she knew I wasn't ok with it) than flirting or maybe even making out with another guy.
What I think is interesting is that as we've gotten older, we've gotten a lot more liberal about this kind of thing than we were when we first started dating. Neither of us are nearly as posessive with each other as we used to be. It's more about making sure that we both are happy.
Nite_Hawk
digitalwanderer said:
Strong words. Let me give you a scenario I'm familiar with and see what you think...
Guy marries a girl who is a real vixen - lots of sex during courtship and right up until the first kid is born. Then 8 years of virtual celibacy (let's call it 1-2 times per YEAR) follow in spite of him getting a vasectomy during year 3 to address the the "reason" his wife no longer wanted sex (I can't take pills and we can't have another kid!). So the guy is now stuck in a "marriage" that is basically like living with one's sister.
For the pious, is that just his tough luck?
Thing to ponder.
For the record, I don't condone infidelity, especially when it's just for sex and fun. I do believe, however, that people sometimes marry the wrong person.
Mize said:Nite_Hawk said:Mize said:
er... Would you be more ok with infidelity if it wasn't sexual or fun?
Nite_Hawk
Oh it can be sexual and fun, but I'm refering to infidelity as *sport*
If it's for love, I think it's entirely different.
Didn't realize my statement was that obtuse.
That's kind of an interesting perspective actually, as both my wife and I have somewhat of an opposite opinion. We've actually discussed this. We'd both be pretty upset if we had sex with other people "for fun" behind the other person's back. Still, we both agreed that we'd be much more devistated if the other person had sex with someone else for more than just the fun of having sex (some kind of emotional fulfillment or companionship). In the first case, it's not something that is habitual. It might be irresponsible and in poor judgement and hurtful, but it's not necessarily indicating a broken relationship. In the second case, the indication is that there is something fundamentally wrong or missing on a deeper level than just wanting to experiment with sex.
Nite_Hawk
Nite_Hawk said:
Exactly and I agree. If a spouse has tried everything - counseling, etc. - and is still stuck in a loveless, non-intimate relationship then they become highly exposed to infidelity for intimacy, not sex-as-sport. In a way it's more forgiveable from a macro, emotional standpoint, but it's definitely far more threatening to the marriage and more of a betrayal than sex-as-sport.
Then again, one might argue 8 years of celibacy was the original betrayal, might they not?
I think the "strong" person would divorce first ("but what about the kid?!"), however it may not be so black and white as people think.
nothing is black and white in the world
not even that...
not even that...
Mize said:
My wife and I just spoke about it. We both agree that in this case it's probably best to get out of the marriage before any kind of outside emotional relationship happens just because it would be much more devistating for the other person to find out about a sexual/emotional betrayal than a divorce (which can be considered a betrayal in a way, but of a different sort). It's never good feeling guilty about loving someone else other than your spouse too. By breaking off the marriage there is no shame (unless you're catholic) in persueing the new relationship.
What you speak of (8 years of celibacy) is in a way a betrayal too though as you said. It's neglegent toward your feelings and needs. Usually though, someone doesn't just decide to stop having sex (atleast entirely). Are you sure the lack of sex isn't the symptom of some greater problem?
Nite_Hawk
digitalwanderer
Legend
It's his tough luck, but I'd prefer to say that is his situation to address.Mize said:
I never said it was easy, and I've had more than my fair share of dry spells....but I knew going in that it was one lady forever and I think trying to justify your way around your word after the fact is just that, a justification.
The guy in that scenerio should discuss the matter with his wife, seek counseling, and then maybe consider divorce/seperation....infidelity is not justified.
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