Timetravelling paradox

I watched "The One" @ the weekend. Jet Li busting some funky multiverse kung fu style paradox busters. He can't act but it was an interesting story line...

How could a paradox happen in time if we exist in an infinite continuum where every possible effect of every conceivable cause has already happened? Wouldn't the paradox have already happened and therefore, chucking aside free will etc.. ;), it was already determined that paradox would occur and that our time traveller would experience a mico second of horror before they realise their ultimate fate...forever.
 
Hawking postulated the chronology protection conjecture. Its his belief (shared by most physicists), that any CTC (closed timelike curve, physics jargon for a path that travels back in time) will be impossible due to quantum gravity effects negating the appearence of such an object.

Hence dark matter. If you know what I mean? :)
 
it's possible for one of these pairs to cross over the boundary and never be able to annihilate itself with the virtual partner.

Cross over the boundary? The event horizon? Is it created outside the event horizon, or does it actually cross over it... Or are you referring to some other boundary. If it's the event horizon only possible way to do that would be through teleportation, no?
 
looks like time travelling is like OOPs (object orinted programming).... :LOL: ....endless loops.. :D
 
Cross over the boundary? The event horizon? Is it created outside the event horizon, or does it actually cross over it... Or are you referring to some other boundary. If it's the event horizon only possible way to do that would be through teleportation, no?
Eh? Why are you on about teleportation still? The particle-antiparticle pair are created just "outside" of the absolute event horizon of the black hole - during the tiny amount of time they exist for, it is perfectly possible for them to circumscribe little paths in spacetime (just as long as they annihilate each other at the end of this). However, if one of the pair passes over the event horizon along this path it will not be able annihilate itself with the other particle.

Due to vacuum fluctuations, you would "see" a cloud of particles radiated from the event horizon - each particle being one half of the pair created; the other half having popped across the event horizon, never to return. Since this really would violate the conservation of mass/energy outside the uncertainty principle, the black hole itself loses the same mass that it radiates away. You can read more about the calculations and whatnot at this site.
 
My own personal thoughts echo those of David Deutsche in this matter. Time travel is impossible in a single universe, but allowed in the multiverse (but then it's not really time travel, just a form of travel having that appearance at a cursory glance).
 
Oh I see. It's just that I'd heard something about an energy threshold or something that sometimes particles could surpass and beam over to the other side... I'd thought it was in a black hole related paper, but it appears I'm mistaken.
 
Looked at the black hole site, and found this:
In fact we can't really prove it without a lot of quantum physics (It depends on the tunnel-effect).

That's what I was talking about when I said teleportation.

another site said something similar, to what I think, about it...

"Imagine throwing a handful of pebbles lightly at a window, and most of them bounced back, just as you expect, but a few of them disappeared on this side of the glass and reappeared on the other side of the window without breaking the glass. Welcome to the Tunnel effect in the surreal world of quantum physics where the pebbles are smaller than atoms.

In modern electronics tunnel diodes take an electron from here and put it there without allowing it to occupy the intervening space, or as the textbooks drily put it, "the penetration of the wave function into the classically forbidden region." Scanning tunneling electron microscopes work on this principle. An electric field applied to a metal tip so that the electrons in the tip have enough energy to reach a metal surface underneath for a short distance. However the electrons cannot exist in the vacuum between the tip and the surface. A small current results from the electrons tunneling out of the tip, teleporting from the tip to the surface. No electron can be detected between the tip and the surface.

The electron "pebble" on this side of the barrier has a tiny chance that it
could also be a metre to the left, ten centimetres upwards, or even on the
other side of the barrier. So when you send lots of low energy electrons or
photons against a barrier, a small fraction of them appear on the other
side.

This kind of disappearing and re-appearing act happens all the time within
individual atoms. Electrons orbit an atomic nucleus in shells of different
sizes and distances, sort of like a planet orbiting the sun, but where the
planet is smeared out into a ball around the sun. The electrons can move
nearer or closer or further away from the nucleus as they gain or lose
energy, say by absorbing or emitting light. However, the electrons are not
allowed to be between these shells. The space between orbits is a forbidden
zone. So how do electrons make the jump from an inner orbit to an outer
orbit if they're not allowed to travel the space in between - the
no-mans-land Pauli exculsion zone? The answer is that they use the tunnel
effect. They disappear from their old orbit and reappear in the new orbit,
without the bother of actually moving through the space in-between. It kind of puts old Captain Kirk to shame.

This is what I'd call REAL teleportation. Captain Kirk had the kind of
teleportation being researched in the labs of the University of Wales, IBM
laboratories, and many other institutions. Its a major factor in unbreakable
quantum cryptography. Briefly you convert the original Kirk into a coded
signal, killing him in the process. You then send this file by radio or by
post, or by wire to the receiver, where Kirk is resurrected - destroying his
file in the process. You'd never get me travelling on one of the damn
things! And of course, the maximum speed is lightspeed."

http://www.abc.net.au/science/morebigquestions/tunnel.htm

I, dunno if that is an appropiate definition, but that's what I was referring to.

EDITED
 
As for my thoughts on time travel. I think ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE, there is nothing IMPOSSIBLE in this world.

A great man once said that the greatest science would be indistinguishable from magic... I say the apex of knowledge goes beyond magic and that which can be fanthomed by men... ALL laws can bend to the point where they are no more... when they are broken. Causality, the laws of physics, there is no boundary that cannot be undone.
 
zidane1strife said:
A small current results from the electrons tunneling out of the tip, teleporting from the tip to the surface. No electron can be detected between the tip and the surface.

Does tunnel effect also mean "worm hole"? When you can simply going from one point to another without doing it in a "traditional" way. When you can simply skip all the space that exist between that 2 different points simply by bending them together which makes the nearest distance of those points is not a straight line anymore?
 
Teleportation isn't the best word to use with the quantum tunnelling effect - the object isn't really "disappearing" from one place and then "reappearing" in another. Particles tunnel through boundaries because of the uncertainty principle; the size of the indeterminacy of the particle's position/wavelength happens to be in the same order as the size of the boundary. Therefore, when attempting to ascertain exactly where the particle is, there will be finite probability that it's on the other side of the boundary that you expect it to be. Other conditions will affect the wave function and thereby alter the probability as to where it will be.

The electrons in a STM tunnel across the gap between the examined surface and probe tip because (a) the indeterminacy in their positions covers the surface, gap and probe; (b) there is a large potential difference across the probe, so if the electrons do "appear" in the probe then they are accelerated rapidly away from the gap and therefore are unlikely to "appear" in the surface again. The overall sum of these probabilities means that you get a small current flow (no more than a nanoamp) between the surface and the probe.

This site is a nice little starter for STMs.

There's also the point that the distance covered by tunnelling is incredibly small - it's not like humans could ever make use of this!

Wormholes come about due to certain solutions of the equations in general relativity, rather than the quantum tunnelling effect. Those solutions give rise to what are called Schwarzschild black holes (no charge, no angular momentum), which Einstein and Rosen discovered some time later, that SBHs could also represent a tube that connects two regions of spacetime together (aka a wormhole). This idea also solves the "problem" of having a singularity with a black hole.

Anyway, forward on several decades, and you've got also sorts of top ideas about wormholes. Use exotic material (negative energy density matter) to prevent the wormhole entrance from collapsing (which it would do in mere fractions of a second). You've got Thorne wormholes, Hawking wormholes, Coleman wormholes; barking - the lot of them! ;) As interesting as wormholes may be, no are going to be viable prospects for human teleportation.
 
You want to teleport?

Get a machine that will make an exact copy of you and your thoughts/memories etc... (assuming that the machines can do that, despite us being all chemical).

The machines make you into 1 particle, the particle is displaced for 10 years, the machine then makes you back into human form (you know, billlions or whatever particle being) and then you would have gone forward by 10 year. If you have aged or not is another issue. :)

You can't go back in time as time is a constant. Only goes forward, not backwards.
 
Teleportation isn't the best word to use with the quantum tunnelling effect - the object isn't really "disappearing" from one place and then "reappearing" in another.

Well, it might not be teleportation, but it sure feels like it. Some researches(yes, I know you guys obviously know this already, but still...) have made photons quantum tunnel and arrive at their destination several fold the speed of light. Some have even sent mozart using such technics.
 
"Time" is definitely not a constant; any more than spacial dimensions are. The arrow of time (forwards or backwards, etc) makes no distinction in sub-atomic processes, such as particle interactions - there is a symmetrical solution to things like Maxwell's equations when having waves travelling forwards or backwards in time.

Entropy, though, could be used to define the arrow of time for the macroscopic world that we live in. Natural processes increase in entropy; start with something simple and ordered, finish with more complexity and less order. Since the whole universe seems to be increasing in entropy, we could use that to declare the arrow of time. However, it is perfectly possible (with an open system) to do the opposite of this by the input of energy - we, as humans, can decrease entropy for given systems. Using the entropy definition of the arrow of time, it seems feasible (if just not necessarily possible) for a system to go backwards in time.
 
First off, nobody ever said time was a constant. What I said was

One could almost argue that the 4th dimension is not a variable, but is constant across all universes.

and I said that in the context of traveling between parallel universes. My belief is that if multiple universes exist, then they exist at the same time. That is, I think that given a coordinate system describing an infinite set of space-time universes (x,y,z,t,d), where x,y, and z are the 3 dimensions of our universe, t is the time of our universe, and d is a 5th dimension that binds all sets of space-time to our own, then at any given moment, I believe t holds the same value in all space-time sets.

I think the only possible way a human being could feasibly visit a scenario where all values of (x,y,z) are identical to those in our universe at some previous time t_past = t_present - T, is to travel through the 5th dimension to a different universe, where everything has occurred exactly the same as it has in our own universe, except the Big Bang happened T later than it did in our own universe. Being that it is a completely different universe, the affects of your presence there does not alter this universe, thus allowing you to kill an identical version of your mother in that universe without erasing your existence or causing the entire system to collapse. However, your presence in that universe would coincide with your absence in this universe, and if you spent a day traveling to the parallel universe and back, then it would be a day after you left when you returned to this universe.

None of this can ever be proven, however, and it's just my opinion. If you want to believe that it's possible to travel backwards through the time dimension in our own universe, be my guest. I don't think that's possible, and even if it were, it's not a good idea to do it. You're better off taveling through the 5th dimension and altering someone else's universe where your actions don't affect events that have already taken place.
 
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