The way it's meant to be patched...
- Thread starter CorwinB
- Start date
Shocking! 
Both the hilarious Eidos statement and the Tiger Woods shader issue.
I would like to read more official info about both these very strong points. I hope none of this is made up. It's both just so plain stupid that it is hard to believe it is really happening.
But I can only assume it is indeed true for now. Nvidia is guilty unless proven otherwise for the time being.
I can fully understand how Reverend is pissed seeing all his good work being erased thanks to bribery money from Nvidia.
This is getting better and better every day. Nvidia has to be stopped!
I will vote with my money. That Geforce3, although it has served me well, will be my last Nvidia product for a long time to come.
Kinda sad really. I honestly can not complain about any bad experiences with both the Geforce2 and Geforce3 I have purchased. I would very likely have become a repeat customer and sticked to Nvidia on my next purchase just out of the trust I have built up to the company, thanks to these last two products. But you Nvidia, have worked very hard on destroying that trust ever so slowly by becoming guilty of virtually every computer video card crime we have a law for such as lying, cheating and bribing others to do the same. Great job on losing your customer base, Nvidia!
I hope ATI will stay honest and keep integrity, even when they increase their market share. Which they probably will and deserve. I'm also getting increasingly interested in XGI.
Both the hilarious Eidos statement and the Tiger Woods shader issue.I would like to read more official info about both these very strong points. I hope none of this is made up. It's both just so plain stupid that it is hard to believe it is really happening.
But I can only assume it is indeed true for now. Nvidia is guilty unless proven otherwise for the time being.
I can fully understand how Reverend is pissed seeing all his good work being erased thanks to bribery money from Nvidia.
This is getting better and better every day. Nvidia has to be stopped!
I will vote with my money. That Geforce3, although it has served me well, will be my last Nvidia product for a long time to come.
Kinda sad really. I honestly can not complain about any bad experiences with both the Geforce2 and Geforce3 I have purchased. I would very likely have become a repeat customer and sticked to Nvidia on my next purchase just out of the trust I have built up to the company, thanks to these last two products. But you Nvidia, have worked very hard on destroying that trust ever so slowly by becoming guilty of virtually every computer video card crime we have a law for such as lying, cheating and bribing others to do the same. Great job on losing your customer base, Nvidia!
I hope ATI will stay honest and keep integrity, even when they increase their market share. Which they probably will and deserve. I'm also getting increasingly interested in XGI.
I have written my Core Design contact a very frank email but I am not expecting a response that I like (and what you all want) nor do I actually expect a response from him per se (because I think he may be too embarrased to reply although he really has nothing to do with this absolutely horrendous and abhorrent act).
I have also written a NVIDIA personnel telling him I'd like to write him a very frank-no-bs email but that I would like to write him to his non-NVIDIA email addy, because I know he's just an employee (but a rather public one), he does his job well and as to be expected of him, and I want his frank opinion on the recent eye-opening happenings/decisions taken by NVIDIA and I don't want him to get int trouble should the NVIDIA police start going through his emails.
Slightly OT :
I am just totally amazed by the lengths NVIDIA are going through to try and limit the defiency between their hardware and ATI's. I understand it but I am amazed they are actually doing it. This TRAOD/Eidos incidence is just very probably the last straw for me when it comes to any remaining respect I may have for a company that I once admired.
Even Microsoft isn't so obviously blatant in doing dirty tactics.
At the moment, I am thinking about refusing to review any NVIDIA-based products, not because I don't like what NVIDIA is doing, but because I honestly do not know how to review their products accurately anymore.
I really want to say much more about this because I am very angry about this TRAOD incident, and I want to post this on our front page as a mini-editorial, just to make it an "official Beyond3D stance" but I am not sure this idea is endearing to Dave, nor appearing respectful to his position.
As my anger with NVIDIA subside, disappointment will take over. Maybe it may even turn to pity.
I have also written a NVIDIA personnel telling him I'd like to write him a very frank-no-bs email but that I would like to write him to his non-NVIDIA email addy, because I know he's just an employee (but a rather public one), he does his job well and as to be expected of him, and I want his frank opinion on the recent eye-opening happenings/decisions taken by NVIDIA and I don't want him to get int trouble should the NVIDIA police start going through his emails.
Slightly OT :
I am just totally amazed by the lengths NVIDIA are going through to try and limit the defiency between their hardware and ATI's. I understand it but I am amazed they are actually doing it. This TRAOD/Eidos incidence is just very probably the last straw for me when it comes to any remaining respect I may have for a company that I once admired.
Even Microsoft isn't so obviously blatant in doing dirty tactics.
At the moment, I am thinking about refusing to review any NVIDIA-based products, not because I don't like what NVIDIA is doing, but because I honestly do not know how to review their products accurately anymore.
I really want to say much more about this because I am very angry about this TRAOD incident, and I want to post this on our front page as a mini-editorial, just to make it an "official Beyond3D stance" but I am not sure this idea is endearing to Dave, nor appearing respectful to his position.
As my anger with NVIDIA subside, disappointment will take over. Maybe it may even turn to pity.
Woah, you sure did call that one right!Natoma said:
Yo Rev, are you pissed or something? (Sorry, had ta.Reverend said:
)What can be done about it, if anything? My personal theory is to just wait and let nVidia destroy itself, as I really don't see anyway they're going to weasle around any longer once Half-life2 is released if Valve doesn't fold-in to them.
QUESTION: You folks who actually saw the DX9 versus nVidia path versus DX8 path...is it a noticeable difference visually 'tween all of them or can nVidia ride it out thru Half-life2 and I'm wrong?
Wow, color me impressed and answered on the "what can be done?" question...and it was damned quick too.Reverend said:
If it's any consolation, after the dissapointment and pity pass you'll be able to enjoy some serious entertainment at the flat-out hilarity of the over-the-top brazeness of nVidia.
I'm there now and it feels much better than the outrage did. 8)
Joe DeFuria
Legend
Reverend said:
Welcome to my world, Rev.
Although I've been leery of nVidia ever since the original "release a PR about a 125 Mhz TNT, and then release a 90 Mhz product instead" fiasco.I just can't help but shake my head every time I hear the typical "but all companies do similar PR tactics" defense of nVidia. (Not pointed at anyone here in particular).
I couldn't disagree more. NO ONE has gone to the lengths and depths as I've seen nVidia go...and that's when nVidia is arguably ahead of the competition. Now that nVidia is definitely behind...it's beyond absurd. The first sign was 3DMark03.
I'm now curious more than ever what Futuremark is going to say on the 19th....
I have suggested that web review sites get together and do exactly that, for the reason you stated. You'll spend more time just trying to figure out WTF you have to do to have a semlance of a legit review, than you will actualy doing a review. It just isn't FAIR for reviewers to have to deal with this CRAP. (Let alone fair to the gaming public who will have to deal with the majority of reviewers who won't bother to figure out how to do a legit review in the first place.)
Try and put some pressure back on nVidia. To do this, it's gong to take a WELL ORGANIZED plan, with a public announcement and strict commitment from all those involved. It won't be easy, but I daresay it's necessary.
nVidia's playing hard-ball here folks, and the sooner the line is drawn in the sand, the better.
kindbudmaster
Newcomer
In response to the gamers depot article, I'm sure that Nvidia had something to do with Eidos's statement about the patch. I'm just wondering about the journalistic integrity of passing opinion off as fact that I saw in that article. With standards like that, how is the reader being served?
Ratchet said:
What are you actually jeopardizing though? If a site is incapable of doing an accurate review why bother doing it?. If a web site is doing preview products for the sake of doing preview products and not attempting to give the reader an honest and accurate evaluation first and foremost , what good is the review or the reviewer? Let them type of web sites wither on the vine I say.
If it can't be done right don't do it. Tell Nvidia "Until we are satisfied we can accurately evaulate Nvidia cards and their drivers they serve no purpose to us. The amount of effort and time it takes to test the cards has become to prohibitive and is not in our best interest to continue doing so."
I am boycotting any product from nVidia. Also any product form any IHV that uses an nV GPU or chipset. Include in this list any game from any publisher that intentionally hurts performance for the sake of perception. Ha Asus, MSI, EA, etc. you just screwed yourself out of .....................$100 this year.
I'd love to see that. But who's going to get the ball rolling there? Who's going to take that chance of being shut out by the rest of the community and nVidia themselves? You've already seen what nVidia can do to companies like Futuremark - how would a website fare against that negative-PR onslaught?indio said:
digitalwanderer said:
Judge for yourself :-
http://www.gamersdepot.com/hardware/video_cards/ati_vs_nvidia/dx9_desktop/hl2_followup/shotdx.htm
Personally I don't think nVidia can cover this up, the differences are very very noticeable.
Wow!
I was skeptical of NVidia's honesty in their driver policy "from now on" - but it looks like the dishonesty has just been shunted higher in the development process via a policy of patches for the game engine itself. This is incredible, are they trying to piss everyone off and start a class action against themselves for fraud, mis-leading advertising and gainful deceipt?
Rev - B3d is one of the only sites I trust to do proper reviews, if you can't judge what you are really seeing - maybe review it anyway but add a large caveat to it that its NVidia - can you trust it.
Now there's a slogan opportunity
INWAIRS - Its Nvidia - what am I really seeing?
INCYTI - Its NVidia - can you trust it
INNOCENT - Its Nvidia - not only caught, encouraging neutered testimonies
INWPEMS - Its Nvidia - where performance ends marketing starts
etc...
I was skeptical of NVidia's honesty in their driver policy "from now on" - but it looks like the dishonesty has just been shunted higher in the development process via a policy of patches for the game engine itself. This is incredible, are they trying to piss everyone off and start a class action against themselves for fraud, mis-leading advertising and gainful deceipt?
Rev - B3d is one of the only sites I trust to do proper reviews, if you can't judge what you are really seeing - maybe review it anyway but add a large caveat to it that its NVidia - can you trust it.
Now there's a slogan opportunity
INWAIRS - Its Nvidia - what am I really seeing?
INCYTI - Its NVidia - can you trust it
INNOCENT - Its Nvidia - not only caught, encouraging neutered testimonies
INWPEMS - Its Nvidia - where performance ends marketing starts
etc...
Joe DeFuria said:
While I agree that does have a very 'Picard holding the line in First Contact speech' feel to it.
"First they cheated the benchmarks and we withdrew. Then they attacked the filtering and we stood idly by. Entire games were savaged and mauled to become mere shadows of their former glory but we fell back.
No, this stops here. The line must be drawn of here and no further!
We will make them pay, I will make them pay for what they did!"
The point of that scene does apply here in that sometimes resistance can be pointless. nVidia will probably not listen to public outcry - look at how they have handled matters over the tri-linear anisotropy hack. Kyle, eventually, made that very public but still they do it.
The only place that nVidia will listen is in sales. Till it hurts their bottom line I don't think they care what developers, users, reviewers and the like think.
Refusing to review their cards is also the wrong answer - silence can be easily manipulated into tacit agreement. Sadly the only path is to continue to catch them at this with reviews till either nVidia stop doing this or, more likely, the buying public reach their limit and stop buying the hardware.
At which point either nVidia shapes up and produces good hardware or they become an irrelevance to the market because they simply aren't bought.
Could we see within two years nVidia becoming primarily a motherboard chipset maker? Given their current behavior it seems entirely possible, especially if the stock holders force some radical rationalisation on spending within the company.
Keep in mind that those shots don't use all of the dx 9 effects. High dynamic range lighting and a few other dx 9 effects weren't included in the levels that were reviewed. The water shader is probably the only difference in that shot... in the final game, the difference will be greater.banksie said:
Is there a verifiable source of confirmation of Nvidia's involvement with the patch retraction?
Things look bad, but the idea that Nvidia could be so completely corrupt just hurts my head. Is there anything that can make things absolutely certain?
There probably aren't too many insiders in the position to clear things up without getting fired.
Things look bad, but the idea that Nvidia could be so completely corrupt just hurts my head. Is there anything that can make things absolutely certain?
There probably aren't too many insiders in the position to clear things up without getting fired.
Ratchet said:
My point is that web sites are effectively shut out now . Having hardware that can't be accurately evaluated is just like having no hardware at all. A web site can't do there job with what there getting so why would they want it?
I understand there are web sites that don't give a rats ass and just want hits and that is the main purpose for them doing hardware reviews in the first place . At the very least we would atleast expose the hack journalists for what the are.
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