nvidia, the way its meant to be played - NOT

Discussion in 'Graphics and Semiconductor Industry' started by SpellSinger, Feb 13, 2003.

  1. DeanoC

    DeanoC Trust me, I'm a renderer person!
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    Well I would, ATI dev support deserve it but we (developers) have no say over that kind of thing. Its a publisher thing completely. Usually I try and fit in a special thanks to the dev rel guys (of any company) but even that can be disallowed some times (because even a peice of text like Joe Bloggs ATI(tm) requires legal o.k.). We did manage to thank Alan Partridge last time though :)

    For us to add ANY texture of ANY organisation would require massive legal support. I couldn't even add beyond3d logo.

    At the moment nVidia are getting publisher support which for the logo is much more important than developer support. This is BIG business, its got NOTHING to do with development and every thing to do with marketing and image. In fact with Silent Hill 2 PC, the video card that got the most custom features was the Kyro 2 due to it having so many issues (no TnL, no 8 bit stencil, no DXT3/5 etc).

    If it makes you feel any better, I've using an ATI 9700 Pro at the moment and I have one at home. I've been working very closely with ATI for a long time (My Dx9 demos were some of the first Pixel shader 2 apps to run on R300 (when it was all hush hush)). I consider the ATI devrel to be the current best.

    Bottom line, if the publisher says stick the nvidia logo and have no ATI, Matrox etc logo thats what happens. If you want otherwise convince ATI to push forward there cross marketing program forward.

    What I'm trying to say is don't blame the developer about these logo deals, its got nothing to do with us.
     
  2. Doomtrooper

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    What a refreshing post about ATI Dev relations DeanoC, far better than some of the horror stories spread around the net.
     
  3. Jima13

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    Yep

    I've just added Silent Hill 2 to my shopping list :)
     
  4. John Reynolds

    John Reynolds Ecce homo
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    I don't think they inherited the situation. More like once they dominated the market and developers as 3dfx once did they 'adopted' a similar, aggressive attitude. Ironic considering how almost every Nvidia press release harped about how they supported only 'open' APIs, etc.
     
  5. Anonymous

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    The fact that a bunch of nVidia devrel guys (and Phil Taylor from MS!) moved to handle devrel for ATI probably has helped too.
     
  6. SpellSinger

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    ATI Dev support has always been excellent! They have always been responsive and helpful. For a while there they had to deal with poor driver quality but they always worked with us to get the issues resolved (whether they were ours of their own) and are likely one of the main reasons ATI driver quality improved so much over the last 2 years. Horrow stories about ATI devrel .... I don't think I've seen one justified case. Even Derek Smart gives them their due every time he bashes ATI driver devs.

    We should send ATI devrel a few cases of beer to show them we care. :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
     
  7. SpellSinger

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    I don't think this has had anything to do with it. The nVidia guys are in the UK and Phil Taylor is still in Seattle from what I hear. I've never had contact with any of them. It is always the North American guys who have contacted me. Jeff Royle and Jason Schellenberg seem to be the most proactive by email.

    Hell, Richard Huddy hardly ever posts on the DX mail list anymore. What's up with that????? :? :? :? ATI must be keeping him busy in Europe. :wink:
     
  8. Randell

    Randell Senior Daddy
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    yeah sound advice..not.

    How the hell is a gamer meant to know how well a game is coded? NWN ran fine on my 8500, runs fine on my 9700Pro and runs fine on my friends 9000Pro. It crashes more often on my other frineds TNT2Ultra (yes he knows he should upgrade, he is saving up).

    As for NWN being luke-warm - well that's personal opinion isnt it. The sinple player campaig isnt great, but as a MP co-op RPG experience with friends - I'm enjoying it much more than an MMORPG.
     
  9. ET

    ET
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    A couple of comments:

    I agree that ATI dev rel is good. Very responsive, and has always been, in my experience. NVIDIA had the best publicly available developer site before they converted it into a Cg shrine. As for their dev rel, I found it very hard to contact them initially, but once I got one response, from Sam Dietrich, I simply contacted him from that point on, instead of the developer relations mail, and I found him very helpful.

    As for NWN, this is not the first time I've seen it bashed here, and I find it annoying. I spent nights enjoying that game. Yes, the plot is stupid, but it was still a lot of fun to play, and it has great ongoing support. And I like Bioware because when I had problems with Shattered Steel, long after it was out, one of the top guys helped me solve them, and when a CEO (or whatever his title is) personally helps a gamer of a game the company finished developing long ago, that definitely makes me feel it's a company worth supporting. (That happened a bit of time before Baldur's Gate release.)
     
  10. JD

    JD
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    Yeah, Sam is great. I understand why they went all out CG as it unifies their dx and gl shader demos. I think the tech is always moving forward so they had to adapt. Ati did the same with ms hlsl in render monkey. Gl2 is still ways off and at least with CG, devs could do some hlsl prototyping or learn how to make shaders. For dx there is ms hlsl so CG isn't that important there.

    I don't think devs are lazy at all. I think time pressure contributes greatly to what they're able to do. Creating games is not all fun and games as some people think it is. Once in the while you get an effect working and then it's fun but interim there is lot of code writing and bug hunting to do so it takes some time before you see fruits of your labor. Then the whole thing has to work together and that can cause hair pulling so I'm quite amazed that not only devs got the tech down but that they've also did a game as well. And if the game is fun then all the better:)
     
  11. ET

    ET
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    I don't have a problem with the use of Cg as much as the developer page being turned into a "developer press release" page, with few technical articles (or at least it's not easy to find them).
     
  12. martrox

    martrox Old Fart
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    Randell, I personally have no problems with NWN, except for the fact that it's written for nVidia cards. When I switched from a TI4600 to a 9700Pro, I noticed a few effects were gone, like the water effects. Why? As I checked out the NWN forums, I saw postings from Bioware themselves that the ATI cards weren't "capable" of doing such effects. Then they backtracked and said that while ATI cards could do such effects, that NWN was written in a way that precluded the ATI cards (ie. written for nVidia!) using such effects, and there was no way to make changes without a major rewrite. After a major uproar from ATI users, Bioware somehow found a way for the effects to work. Now, don't get me wrong, I play & enjoy NWN, but the fact does remain that it WAS written for nVidia cards, and that Bioware original responce to ATI users was a classic show of support for a single ISV.....
     
  13. SpellSinger

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    ATI is shipping 40 million chips a year. Why would a developer ignore that market? A significant number of this product must be high-end chips.
     
  14. Randell

    Randell Senior Daddy
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    [quote="martrox]Randell, I personally have no problems with NWN, except for the fact that it's written for nVidia cards.[/quote]yeah I know the saga of the 'shiny water'. My comment was more aimed at Nagorak bascially saying dont buy the game.
     
  15. StellaArtois

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    OT here... Long time lurker here, and I've just realised something... Martrox?? Lives in Florida?? Do the words EQ, Cassilda, OEM mean anything to you?

    If so... <--- Luehmann :)

    If not, I'm mad, don't worry...
     
  16. martrox

    martrox Old Fart
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    Hehhehe! Got me! Good to hear from you.
     
  17. IceKnight

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    well said man, we dont pay to get crap marketing in our games,

    there are little things I hate more than marketing material in a product i fuken paid good cash for.
     
  18. mr

    mr
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    Well I don't know if it's been posted here before, but it seems nvidia is not the only one with splash screens.

    Today I played the demo version of WillRock and look what I got. :)
    [​IMG]
     
  19. Randell

    Randell Senior Daddy
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    heh, bound to happen but damn annoying all the same.
     
  20. cho

    cho
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    it is like "Intel inside".
     
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