S.T.A.L.K.E.R. - The Way it's Meant to be Played!

[Humus]

Re: IMHO

I believe them that they had more/better support from Nvidia than from ATi. I remember more than 6 months ago reading a preview for STALKER, where claims were it was ran on NV30 sample(yes it was october/november.2002), and it looked like from the beginning NV30 was their target as "best card". Actually NV30 failed to impress and R300 is on same level as functionality. But I doubt they have the time& resources to add same level of performance/effect tuning on R300.

A short notice: first ATi developer meeting EVER held in Russia took place less than 2 months ago. Until then AFAIK, Russia was terra incognita for ATi - both from developer&buying region. In same time Nvidia has VERY good relations with leading Russian game developers from years. AFAIK at least twice russian developers won prizes in NVidia contests. And that can be confirmed easily - many games that have no "harsh" problems with NV cards, have such with ATi's. And more games were made in Russia in 2002 than many think, much more than in 2000 to say.

I have little to no insight in this, but I don't think ATi has been bad against the russians in any way. It may just have been too few titles or too few developers in russia in previous years. Either way, I have a Russian guy in the cubicle next to me, and if I'm not entirely mistaken he went to russia just a few weeks ago. Indeed, he tend to always be out, so I guess he might be there quite often. If I'm not mistaken we also have a russian on the RenderMonkey team too, who if I'm not yet again mistaken also went to russia at the same time.

 

[Andergum]

Actually I think there were using the NV30 to simulate the heat and wind effects.

 

[chavvdarrr]

Re: IMHO

but I don't think ATi has been bad against the russians in any way. It may just have been too few titles or too few developers in russia in previous years.

Obviously the second - I don't think ATi has something against any developer. I just have the impression that up til 2003, NVidia paid much more attention to russian developers&market.
AFAIK NVidia has more than 70% (some claim 90% !) of 3D cards in Russia & Ukraina (STALKER is made from Ukrainian team, and is based on one of the best sci-fi novells IMHO "Picnic along the road" from A.&B. Strugatski - everyone who enjoys sci-fi should read it ...), gave support from the beginning... things will change for better, let's don't make an elephant from the fly...
With 70-80% NV against 5-10% for ATi, which cards such company will target?

 

[demalion]

Where are the sales going to be made? Only Russia and Ukraine?
From ATI, they have hardware, they have communications, they have motivation (unless it really is only going to sell in Russia and Ukraine and your figures are accurate)...I'm not seeing how the nature of the comment in question is changed by those proposed marketshare figures.

 

[Evildeus]

Which are? I don't remember seeing for a long time Ati being the first suplier, or am i missing something in your comment?

 

[2B-Maverick]

NVidia might have a 90% market share.
But in the DX9 market NVidias market share is ZERO NILL NADA up to today.
One can only guess how high it will be when STALKER sees the light of day.

 

[Richthofen]

well but with the FX line especially with the FX5200 they will pass ATI on the DX9 market after a few feeks.
There is no question that they are going to be DX9 market leader in the near future and STALKER is still a littlebit away.

 

[2B-Maverick]

well but with the FX line especially with the FX5200 they will pass ATI on the DX9 market after a few feeks.
There is no question that they are going to be DX9 market leader in the near future and STALKER is still a littlebit away.

DX9 market leader and USABLE DX9 market leader are big differences.

Since the NV30 is only half as fast as a R9700/9500Pro when it comes to DX9 Pixel shading, i guess you can throw the 5200 in the trash-can for ANY serious DX9 gaming.
Granted: a 5600 Ultra / R9600 should work just fine (i hope).
And in the segments >=5600 ATI has equal products at a bit less price.
So i guess the question who WILL be market leader in the future is quite undecided when it comes to usable DX9 products. (an remember: ATI has a advantage of over 1 Million units that are already sold and that HAVE sufficient performance in DX9 shaders - at least compared to the 5200)

 

[Entropy]

well but with the FX line especially with the FX5200 they will pass ATI on the DX9 market after a few feeks.
There is no question that they are going to be DX9 market leader in the near future...

I'd love to see your supporting evidence for this statement.

Entropy

 

[Evildeus]

I'd love to see your supporting evidence for this statement.

I think it's quite easy to understand. Which part of the market does sell the more? The 5200/9200 market. As Ati doesn't have any DX9 conterpart in that market, Nvidia has a strong advantage.

 

[chavvdarrr]

simply

well but with the FX line especially with the FX5200 they will pass ATI on the DX9 market after a few feeks.
There is no question that they are going to be DX9 market leader in the near future...

I'd love to see your supporting evidence for this statement.
Entropy

simply- which will be the best-selled DX9 card this year?
R300? R350?
No. NV34 aka GF 5200/5200 Ultra.
Someone wanna bet?

 

[Entropy]

Re: simply

Within a few weeks?
I think you GROSSLY overestimate the sales volumes of these cards in the immediate future.

Entropy

 

[2B-Maverick]

Re: simply

simply- which will be the best-selled DX9 card this year?
R300? R350?
No. NV34 aka GF 5200/5200 Ultra.
Someone wanna bet?

no need... we agree on that.

But its a useless market leadership in the low-cost segment as these cards are FAR too slow for ANY serious DX9 effects.

 

[DegustatoR]

Re: simply

But its a useless market leadership in the low-cost segment

It's the segment where all (or at least the major part of) the money is...

 

[Randell]

Re: simply

well but with the FX line especially with the FX5200 they will pass ATI on the DX9 market after a few feeks.
There is no question that they are going to be DX9 market leader in the near future...

I'd love to see your supporting evidence for this statement.
Entropy

simply- which will be the best-selled DX9 card this year?
R300? R350?
No. NV34 aka GF 5200/5200 Ultra.
Someone wanna bet?

dont includfe the 5200Ultra in that, the retail prices in the UK are about par with a 9500Pro from what I've seen so far.

Also no one knows how much a 9600 non-pro will retail at for sure.

 

[Evildeus]

Well, i don't know in UK, but in France the 5200 ultra is only 10€ more expensive than the cheapest 5200...

 

[Entropy]

Assuming that ATI has a lead of 1.5 million GPUs, and assuming that the ratios of nVidia vs ATI sales volumes remain roughly 60:40 another 7.5 million DX9 GPUs have to be sold before nVidia can draw equal in installed DX9 base.

Now, the overwhelming majority of gfx-cards sold today (and tomorrow) won't be DX 9 level cards at all, so it will be a lot more than "a few weeks" before we see the total installed base of DX9 level cards reach 9 million.

Not to mention that actual availability of nVidia DX9 level cards is still a ways off, and that the preliminary performance figures indicate that the 60:40 ratio of nVidia vs ATI GPUs will NOT be a valid prediction of actual sales volumes at the DX9 level. nVidia will have to depend on their strong OEM partners to be able to compete with ATI at all.

I don't see how anyone can believe nVidia will pass ATI in installed DX9 base "in a few weeks". The volumes just aren't there, no matter how unrealistically you assess the attractiveness of nVidias offerings in the marketplace.

Entropy

 

[Evildeus]

There's just a flaw in your figures. 9200 are not DX9, and that's where Ati makes the majority of the sales. So it's not 2/3 but much likely 1/3 or more so....

 

[2B-Maverick]

There's just a flaw in your figures. 9200 are not DX9, and that's where Ati makes the majority of the sales. So it's not 2/3 but much likely 1/3 or more so....

yeah, but you cant count the 5200 as DX9 either.
DX9 paper spec, sure. But not DX9 performance.
Even Software emulation is faster

 

[Evildeus]

Well, i don't mind what you think or not. It's a DX9 card, even if it's performance is almost nill