The Technology of GTA IV/RDR *Rage Engine*

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by babcat, Apr 2, 2008.

  1. Mize

    Mize 3dfx Fan
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    I think it's far more interesting to speculate and test what filtering methods might be in use that to fight over which looks better. Anyone who claims that one or the other is inferior (in an objective way) is silly. They each have minor advantages in a game that's fun on both systems.
     
  2. Philip42

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    1)There's no doubt it's doing better AF'ing then the 360 version, and it seems the best guess is 8XAF. The 360 version is doing 2XAF'ing along with 2XFSAA.

    Many confirmed in this thread there is no FSAA in the PS3 version. (but it's AF'ing makes it seem like there is)

    read this thread:

    http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=47872


    2)Some in here(and myself included) believe the PS3 is doing FP16 since there is more dynamic range in it's lighting/textures..ect

    But neithier has not been confirmed.

    read post #6 and see a pic, to see the difference up close.
     
  3. Juan Panson

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    the lighting seriously looks the same except for the color difference between the games. dont know what people are seeing to be honest.
     
  4. Asher

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    I've read that thread start to finish, I still don't see any examples of AF or FP16. That's why I'm confused -- people see that dithering doesn't exist on the PS3 on the burgershot sign and assume that means 8x AF? Perplexing to me.
     
  5. woundingchaney

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    draw distance looks comparable only 360 picture is cropped
     
  6. Neb

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    Doubt AF would make jaggies less visible, if anything it would be the opposite. Both version looks to have the same filtering amount, IMO trilinear *shrugs*.
     
  7. Neb

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    Looks same but I have to say Rockstar North captured a full blown city look in an impressive way, oh yes most impressed!
     
  8. Mintmaster

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    Yeah, they're probably wrong.

    No evidence of FP16. I'd say there's more to suggest RGBA8, because in shots like this you have more bloom on medium tones (his hand, the sidewalk), suggesting a lack of range for overbright values.

    AF looks the same, but I'm having a hard time finding screenshots that would give us an idea of AF. The aforementioned screenshot doesn't look like 2xAF, nor does it show filtering differences between the two. This 360 shot is definately more than 2xAF, there is no more carpet detail in this PS3 shot, and this PS3 shot doesn't quite look like 8xAF (but it's hard to tell). From these three shots, both version seem to show the onset of horizontal blurring at similar angles to the ground.

    Although heavily compressed and low res, this video really doesn't suggest any difference in AF levels, especially in all the driving clips starting at 1:39. If anything, it appears like the PS3 has lower AF, but it's probably an illusion from the 640p+blur vs. 720p. My best guess is 4xAF for both versions, but some textures look like they have less (e.g. yellow road lines).

    It's pretty funny how that "drive-by post" by makaveli87 has so much influence.

    There is a texturing problem on 360, though, and we're discussing it in the dithering thread. My current theory is that they generated the mipmap chain incorrectly, so things only look proper when their textures don't undergo minification. The shadows are speckly too.
     
  9. deepbrown

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    Wait - I thought the 360 had worse dithering...and that dithering was a bad thing. Now the PS3 has "better dithering" :?:
     
  10. Philip42

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    Actually i need a much better capture card before i do so(anyone have recommendations?) as i used to do video comparsions a few years back, but i had a friend with superb equipment to use.

    I wish my Canon 8 megapixel camera could take a good pic from my Sony 34" XBR960(unmatched black levels), but when i do so, it's nothing close to what a capture care can show.

    (btw: that Sony has only 1 HDMI input, so i'm using a Radiient HDMI[<--best quality HDMI box available] switch box w/remote to do instant comparisons.)

    When i pisck up a good capture card, i'll post up pics.
     
  11. Mintmaster

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    There is a slight color transformation in the PS3 version. If you look at the two bowling alley shots in my last post, the PS3 has a yellowish tone. There are some outdoor PS3 shots that are more yellowish than any 360 shot.

    Not sure how this artistic tweak was only applied to one platform, but whatever.
     
  12. Philip42

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    Wow, i meant to say better filtering, my apologies(i had about 1 hr sleep last night..lol).

    If the PS3 is not doing better AF'ing, then it must be doing some sort of post processing blur effect, to make it appear as if there is.

    Because in all screenshots(and when i compared each version side by side, in the same spot and at the same time) it's easy to notice some sort of AF effect going on.

    One more thing, when at night or in the shadows, the PS3 really shows off a better range of lighting and/or color.

    One final thing, i really believe the PS3 version is using higher quality textures, because in so many areas the difference is very noticable.
     
  13. Mintmaster

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    Uhh, what?

    Nothing to do with AF.

    Uhh, what?
     
  14. Neb

    Neb Iron "BEAST" Man
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    Yeah good screenshots Mintmaster, certainly some AF going on (2-4xAF i would think with 4xAF highlighted). To bad so many screenshots out are so blurry, maybe some more buffer grabs from someone with equipment?

    Gif (850kb courtesy of tweakguides) showing 0/4/16xAF in a game.

    http://www.tweakguides.com/images/Anisotropic.gif
     
  15. Mintmaster

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    Do you even know what AF is?

    360 has more dithered shadows, but there's no difference in range in any night screenshots.

    If you walk up to a texture and see a difference, then PS3 has better textures. If you only see it when you're further away, then it probably the texturing bug that we're discussing in the dithering thread.
     
  16. Hazuki Ryu

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    Texture resolution is the same isn't it on both versions?
     
  17. Mintmaster

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    Thanks, that gives me a comparison point instead of just theoretical approximation.

    I think GTA uses 4-8x AF for one texture per object and no AF on the rest. It's a good compromise that should be the minimum standard for every game.
     
  18. Mintmaster

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    I believe so, but Philip42 is claiming otherwise.
     
  19. deepbrown

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    How does a blur effect make it appear like there's AF...AF is meant to get rid of distance blurring...surely.
     
  20. Mintmaster

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    Thanks. You even have that object which was missing in Asher's comparison, so his suggestion about differences in draw distance is out the window. They're both the same.

    They did a pretty good job with LOD in this game. Not the first to do so, but it's always good to see that they didn't cut corners.
     
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