The non-standard game interfaces discussion thread (move, voice, vitality, etc.)

[Prophecy2k]

I wish for all our sakes Sony would present sold-to-consumer figures just to end these eternal arguments! Although I do question how MS get those figures - there has to be a fair amount of estimation involved.

I reckon they'll have solid data on the US and Japan, and maybe a few key regions in EU, then they'll likely extrapolate across the rest of the EU and any other regions they cover.

Given the fact that the US is really the biggest and primary territory for the 360, i'd imagine that their data will be "accurate enough" by a reasonable margin.

Sony, since their bigger in EU than US, and given that the EU is the biggest territory for motion control games/tech and all that casual stuff anyways i'd imagine it would be much more difficult for them to nail down accurate retailer sales data.

So in effect i really don't blame either of the companies for quoting their figures on the basis they are doing. They'll use what ever metric they can that gives them the most accurate idea of their product performance.

What I don't believe is, "it's all a big konspirasee and MS wantz to appeez the fanboyz, whilst Sony's MOVE is da bomba and they're trying to hide teh fail by channel-stuffing and reporting shipped figgarz!!!1!1!!!"

smh

Edit: just to clarify, that last bit wasn't directed at you Shifty.

 

[wco81]

MS are crowing that Kinect has beat the iPad for the fastest selling consumer electronics product ever.

But iPad is selling over a million units a month. Will Kinect sustain its sales rate indefinitely?

Tablets are here to stay. Motion controllers won't iterate until the next generation, probably.

Beyond these party games and little mini games, has motion controllers really changed gaming? Are people using motion controllers for the most popular genres like FPS, sports games, driving games, etc.?

 

[zRifle1z]

MS are crowing that Kinect has beat the iPad for the fastest selling consumer electronics product ever.

But iPad is selling over a million units a month. Will Kinect sustain its sales rate indefinitely?

Tablets are here to stay. Motion controllers won't iterate until the next generation, probably.

Beyond these party games and little mini games, has motion controllers really changed gaming? Are people using motion controllers for the most popular genres like FPS, sports games, driving games, etc.?

Actually MS predicted it ( which I thought was impossible) other sites are reporting it:

http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/kinect_is_selling_2x_as_fast_as_the_ipad.php

 

[patsu]

If they are comparing iPad to generic DVD player sales, then why not cellphone sales ? How many cellphone and smartphone sold per month worldwide ?

 

[wco81]

I think in comparing to DVD players, they're ultimately suggesting that product x will be just as pervasive and big as DVD.

Tablets will probably need to come down way in price to reach that kind of saturation.

Kinect has more limited appeal because no game console is going to reach high into hundreds of millions. If a console does really well, maybe it reaches 100-150 million before the next gen.

Maybe Kinect can be used on computers to surf and control it for other everyday tasks. But for what reason? Speech recognition has been touted for decades as the ultimate interface for technology but turns out it isn't better or more efficient than existing interfaces.

Similarly, it's questionable that Kinect or other motion controllers are better than standard controllers for the kinds of games which are the most popular.

 

[patsu]

Pads may replace low end PCs in a lot of corporations (Less malware, likely cheaper in the long run, highly portable, good for form filling with fingers and keyboard) and schools (eBooks). Once those trends set in, the volume will increase further. I know some forward looking countries and schools are already planning to replace paper books with pads !

Kinect and other motion devices will excite the tech savvies and entertain families for many years.

 

[Nesh]

Ok I am still searching for move controllers and they are still waiting. I called one of my fav shops and asked him when they are going to have them since its been like 2 months that they are sold out. He told me they have no idea since demand was larger than what Sony expected. He said that more than 4 million units have been sold.

I have no idea where he got the number but if true thats mighty impressive

 

[Shifty Geezer]

He said that more than 4 million units have been sold.

I have no idea where he got the number...

Probably Sony's announcement.

 

[mrcorbo]

At this point though, it feels like the resopnse has been "Kinect is selling lots, Move isn't." It's as if Sony's numbers are completely ignored because they are shipped, not sold to retailers, rather than considered for what info they offer. And at this point, with 2.5 M Kinects sold, and 4 million Moves, chances are the situation in terms of install base is quite similar, rather than half those Moves are sat out back

I don't know I've seen anyone expressing the sentiment that Move isn't selling well. Not anyone I'd take seriously anyway...

I think people should avoid making Move/Kinect sales number comparisons anyway. You're really talking apples and oranges for any number of reasons.

On another subject, I'm really curious to see how the libraries for Move/Kinect fill out from here on out. Does Move see a lot of Wii ports? WIll there be many 3rd party exclusives for Move? Since it seems that Kinect is so unsuited to direct ports of a lot of Wii-type experiences will that result in less titles being developed once the few experiences that do translate are already represented by 2 or 3 titles?

 

[Arwin]

On a related note, I noticed yesterday that gametrailers has a dedicated show / channel for motion gaming now, covering Kinect, Move and Wii.

 

[Nesh]

Probably Sony's announcement.

Probably yeah. Any idea how reliable the number is?

Whatever the number though, it looks like they underestimated demand way too much because 2 months sold out without any replenishment is a shitload of lost sales.
How could they fall off so much? Their supply is either too slow or demand is crazy

 

[Prophecy2k]

On a related note, I noticed yesterday that gametrailers has a dedicated show / channel for motion gaming now, covering Kinect, Move and Wii.

I know Arwin... i saw that yesterday... thought it was an interesting new direction for the site... although i kinda felt like it was a bit of a troll on the Wii. It's like now that PS and Xbox have their motion gaming solutions out on the market, "we now have the REAL motion controllers"

Still... the presenter was HOT!!! And i think she def got my attention ;-)

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Probably yeah. Any idea how reliable the number is?

100% accurate regards what Sony have sold to retailers, but that doesn't tell us how many have gone to consumers; a matter of some debate here! It may be Sony underestimated demand, as they really haven't given Move massive backing and have spoken of slower growth. Possibly better to under produce and ramp up, then produce excess, but I don't know the ins and outs of stock management.

 

[mrcorbo]

100% accurate regards what Sony have sold to retailers, but that doesn't tell us how many have gone to consumers; a matter of some debate here! It may be Sony underestimated demand, as they really haven't given Move massive backing and have spoken of slower growth. Possibly better to under produce and ramp up, then produce excess, but I don't know the ins and outs of stock management.

There's the possibility that Sony didn't have a proper handle on how it needed to prioritize shipments on a regional basis and overshipped to some areas and undershipped to others. It would explain the discrepancies I've noted between US and EU availability. It should sort itself out soon enough and it will either be completely sold out everywhere or be easier to find everywhere.

 

[dobwal]

I don't see why some would ultimately judge the success of these two new motion control system based on short sales goals.

Its highly doubtful that Kinect or Move, regardless how successful, will extend the onset of the next generation by themselves. If Kinect turns out to be a massive success is MS going to stay with the 360 while Sony and Nintendo churn out next gen consoles? I doubt it. Putting Sony in a similar predictament and to me it would still seem doubtful that they too would give a next gen advantage to MS or Nintendo?

I think ultimately the main purpose of releasing Move and Kinect now is drive down the cost of offering these systems as standard features next gen. Its a win-win for both companies in terms of their future tech. You end up with more mature tech at the onset of the next gen who's R&D was sponsored by sales of first gen tech sold in the previous gen as accessories while starting off the new gen with a good portion of the developer base already experienced with the technology and incorporating it into games.

Its not like if Move or Kinect fails to generate real sales beyond this holiday, Sony and/or MS will forego motion tech in their next console. I think MS is pouring more into Kinect because it is a great idea that kind of differentiate their experience and looks a step beyond what the Wii introduced, but it also required a bigger investment than what Sony did with Move. Thereby, MS needs to generate more sales to see bigger early returns on their investment as well as drive down the cost of Kinect hardware. Sony bascially took existing tech and two plastic balls and created Move. The investment costs seem to revolve more around software than hardware development. MS on the other invested by buying the hardware as well as heavily investing in the software of Kinect.

It seems to me that level of marketing and advertising surrounding the two tech has been predicated by the route the two companies took to create the two tech more than driving sales enough to be considered the most successful accessories ever. Ultimately its not how well these techs takes off as current gen accessories but how well they as standard features in next gen push the PS4 and the Xbox3 when they are in mature forms (I don't those plastic balls make it into next gen) and have full developer backing.

 

[upnorthsox]

I don't see why some would ultimately judge the success of these two new motion control system based on short sales goals.

Agreed.

Its highly doubtful that Kinect or Move, regardless how successful, will extend the onset of the next generation by themselves. If Kinect turns out to be a massive success is MS going to stay with the 360 while Sony and Nintendo churn out next gen consoles? I doubt it. Putting Sony in a similar predictament and to me it would still seem doubtful that they too would give a next gen advantage to MS or Nintendo?

I agree that if one goes (MS or Sony) next-gen then the other will follow. However, if is looking to extend this gen anyway (Say Sony) and the other is entice by Move/Kinect sales to extend also, then they both may sit tight. Only for year though imo.

I think ultimately the main purpose of releasing Move and Kinect now is drive down the cost of offering these systems as standard features next gen. Its a win-win for both companies in terms of their future tech. You end up with more mature tech at the onset of the next gen who's R&D was sponsored by sales of first gen tech sold in the previous gen as accessories while starting off the new gen with a good portion of the developer base already experienced with the technology and incorporating it into games.

That's certainly one reason, the other imho is the battle for tween-an-under crowd with this gen HW after they've gone next gen. Kinda like how the PS2 went after the PS3 launch.

Its not like if Move or Kinect fails to generate real sales beyond this holiday, Sony and/or MS will forego motion tech in their next console. I think MS is pouring more into Kinect because it is a great idea that kind of differentiate their experience and looks a step beyond what the Wii introduced, but it also required a bigger investment than what Sony did with Move. Thereby, MS needs to generate more sales to see bigger early returns on their investment as well as drive down the cost of Kinect hardware. Sony bascially took existing tech and two plastic balls and created Move. The investment costs seem to revolve more around software than hardware development. MS on the other invested by buying the hardware as well as heavily investing in the software of Kinect.

Sony's hoping future games will continue to drive sales, MS is afraid those games wont be forthcoming and want the sales now while it's a hot item.

It seems to me that level of marketing and advertising surrounding the two tech has been predicated by the route the two companies took to create the two tech more than driving sales enough to be considered the most successful accessories ever. Ultimately its not how well these techs takes off as current gen accessories but how well they as standard features in next gen push the PS4 and the Xbox3 when they are in mature forms (I don't those plastic balls make it into next gen) and have full developer backing.

I'd say it more the marketing nature of the two companies, neither have stepped out of their element.

 

[patsu]

For precision drawing/scribbling/writing on Wii…
http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/15/thq-udraw-gametablet-for-wii-review/

They have 2 video demoes in the link.

THQ: uDraw Initial Sell-Through 'Very Significant'
http://gamasutra.com/view/news/31766/THQ_uDraw_Initial_SellThrough_Very_Significant.php

Following the launch of THQ's Wii-exclusive drawing peripheral uDraw, CEO Brain Farrell said the tablet controller is living up to commercial expectations with "very significant" initial sell-through.

The exec didn't provide specific sales figures, but THQ previously forecast shipments of 1.25 to 1.3 million units of uDraw through the end of the current fiscal year, ending March 2011.

"We are working diligently to try and [beat forecasts] based on very significant sell-through we've seen in the first two weeks," said Farrell at this week's Credit Suisse Group Technology Conference.

uDraw, launched November 14, is a drawing tablet for Nintendo Wii that comes bundled with the "art-based video game" uDraw Studio, and sells for $69.99. In November, just after the device's launch, THQ saw a share price hike as investors were apparently confident in the product's marketing and sales.

...

Sony, can I have a table-top 2D drawing app for PS Move now ?

… and don't forget those image analysis apps I mentioned !

Beat Sketcher is really the tip of an iceberg.

 

[upnorthsox]

THQ: uDraw Initial Sell-Through 'Very Significant'
http://gamasutra.com/view/news/31766/THQ_uDraw_Initial_SellThrough_Very_Significant.php




Sony, can I have a table-top 2D drawing app for PS Move now ?

… and don't forget those image analysis apps I mentioned !

Beat Sketcher is really the tip of an iceberg.

Sony doesn't need it tied to Move, it can be its own Bluetooth device.

That's a great idea btw, maybe this is my million $$$ idea.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

THQ: uDraw Initial Sell-Through 'Very Significant'
http://gamasutra.com/view/news/31766/THQ_uDraw_Initial_SellThrough_Very_Significant.php

Wacom must be pissed.

 

[patsu]

*I* am pissed.

My virtual throat is dry after pleading for something like this + the image analysis apps for so many months.

Sony doesn't need it tied to Move, it can be its own Bluetooth device.

That's a great idea btw, maybe this is my million $$$ idea.

Argh, too many controllers. I know a pen is more natural, and the Wii folks don't mind yet another controller, but doing with Move may have other interesting angles.