The LittleBigPlanet pre-release Saga

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I finally managed to get to experimenting a little more with the editor. I was actually intending to try the front view together with taking in a picture using the PS Eye as Shifty suggested a while ago, but then I came up with something completely different...
Very nice! Vertical placement is a great visual pitch cue. Looking at this, I guess it'd be possible to have motorised stave that advances a set amount, keeping rythmn, and a spawned note-construct who's height could be adjusted. The trick would be to have one lever raise or lower whatever note position it was at. I don't know if the logic (in the beta) can manage that.

Now on to my observations regards PSEye and user object creation, where I tried capturing hand-written labels and a whiteboard marker sketch - It's a joke!

The camera can't capture sharp images. It exposes white paper to mid-grey of course, so captures are dull. And they are low res and with some bizarre colour dithering going on, almost like Moire patterns. You also can't capture a texture - you can only paste an immediate image onto a surface.

This makes it impossible to get good artwork into the game or build up a personal library of textures. Everything needs be crafted from the in-game pieces, which forces a particular style into levels. My idea for piecing together characters from cutouts sculpted around scans is looking iffy. I can't use my own drawings for features, and would have to use the in-game ones. (Incidentally my cutout test showed that sculpting with a cylinder to produce smooth curves as deepbrown suggested when talking about race-courses doesn't truly happen. The engine approximates slight curves into a straight edge. My curvaceous hat brim was reduced to three edges on the first attempt, and my shoes were given a flat bottom. Scale of motion may affect this somewhat.)

It's clear to me that Sony/MM have decided against broad freedoms for creators in denying user meshes, textures, etc. At the moment everything is set to come from MM and any artistic vision we might have will have to be pieced together from their components, or the style abandoned for a MM style. This is a disappointment, and we need the amount of content to be staggering to cover a lot of art styles. Note I'm not talking the LBP engine looking like Gears or anything extreme. Only that notices, text, characters are being limited. If you wanting a Warning sign in your level, you'll be limited to whatever fonts and textures are in game. If you want a digital font, and there's none in game, either abandond the idea or slave through drawing your sign manually.

I was also running some scientific investigation into the creation side. A reference level with scientific setups to gauge materials and mechanics seems like a good idea, but I didn't get very far. My findings so far -

The Medium Grid is sized in 5 x 5 in-game units - a length of 5 on a rod equates to one medium square in length. Weighing blocks of 1 medium square x 1 z-plane, I found these relative weights :

Code:
[B]Material          Relative weight[/B]
Cardboard         1
Polystyrene       1
 
Dissolve          4/3 (1.333...)
 
Sponge            2
 
Wood              10
Rubber            10
Glass             10
 
Stone             20
Metal             20
 
Float (pink)      0
Float (orange)    -1
These were measured on a balance scale. Thus a metal block is 20x heavier than the equivalent amount of polystyrene, and if you want to float a wooden object on a 'helium' floating platform, you'll need 10x the amount of Helium (orange float) as wood to balance perfectly.

An alternative chart compares the amount of material needed to be the same as one block of the heaviest material...
Code:
Material   Relative weight
Stone             1
Metal             1
 
Wood              2
Rubber            2
Glass             2
 
Sponge            10
 
Dissolve          15
 
Cardboard         20
Polystyrene       20
 
Float (orange)    -1/20 (-0.05)
From here it can be seen that if you had a balanced seesaw with a metal block at one end, you'd need twice as much glass at the same distance to balance it, or 5 units of sponge to balance out a unit of rubber.

Frictionwise, tested as a piston-push along a wooden path, they're all much of a like, except glass that has a far lower friction, and rubber that has almost absolute friction on the wood, tumbling into a roll without sliding. I didn't give this a proper test though. Ramps of known inclination (calculated from known lengths of sides, as there's no way to set angular rotation. Actually that gives an idea for a range of 'setsquares' for specific angulars...) would be a better way to determine friction values, but I'm not in a scinetific mood at present!

Finally all the custom flavours of material are identical in properties.
 
hhhmmmm...I'm not sure how you'd do that, I'm probably being a bit slow...but the depth works in steps, so I would imagine you'd come off the track (or come to the end of the track) at the point you change depths? :S

Nah. The vehicle will be two depths deep, so it'll cover both depths...but the track will be one depth, and will swap half way. All I have to do is devise detractable runners lol.

It's certainly possible, but instead, I think I'll do a near loop and make the player go upside down for ages lol.
 
That's an option. I was wanting lane changing, rather than a straight Scaletrix design, so that players could 'overtake'. There are lots of solutions with their pros and cons and limitations. In this respect LBP is very real and phsyical, offering a load of ways to solve a problem. Should be great for developing thinking skills, especially lateral thinking and creative solutions!

Like skeletrics, it would have seperate tracks for different players..like my snow race.
 
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well i published a level using my new custom music system. it's called FFVIII - Eyes On Me. benefits of my system are small temperature requirement, works independant of player movement and precise timing. i could make the music loop but i was getting edgy thinking the beta would end soon. you could also make a longer piece with more intruments, but again i didn't have time during the beta. it works like a piano roll you have to be quite accurate placing magnetic keys. each note requires a key. so it's always going to be alot of work to transcribe notes unless i can work on a machine to do that for you.
 
Grrr... dear sir, you can't tease me like that. What is your PSN ID or the name of the level so that I can find it ?

EDIT: Whooops, Eyes on Me. Got it... [runs to PS3]
 
It's clear to me that Sony/MM have decided against broad freedoms for creators in denying user meshes, textures, etc. At the moment everything is set to come from MM and any artistic vision we might have will have to be pieced together from their components, or the style abandoned for a MM style. This is a disappointment, and we need the amount of content to be staggering to cover a lot of art styles.
I think most players of LBP don't have high concepts like mesh. In addition to that, it's a game, not a tool. You should accept the challenge :smile: That said, if you really want broad freedom, they can make money selling a professional tool since not all players are interested in overcomplexity. It'll also be useful to make the product life longer, they can release it after people max out the possibility of the original product.
 
Regards Eyetoy, it's amazing how crap images look taken on it (based on Burnout and LBP that I have tested since getting my Eyetoy) saying how good the camera seems to be when using Eyecreate.

It's got to be a software issue not a camera one, maybe they don't want levels to be filled with pictures that are 700+ kb a time?
 
I've just published my first level. It's an Uncharted theme'd level called, river of barrels. You'll have to overcome rapid's, blow up incoming barrels, and shoot pirates. It doesn't look as good as the real thing, partly because I spend all my time fine tuning the gameplay and not the looks, so just use your imagination. It get a bit difficult near the end, but if you make it all the way through, you'll get the jetski that you used in the level.

You can find it by searching for the name cornsnake. Let me know what you think of it.
 
Just put up GAF The Factory

It's an extension of my Lights level...but with a rollercoaster concept at the end :D I rushed it, so some of it doesn't work...and there's no lights lol BUT...you get the idea.
 
Just put up GAF The Factory

It's an extension of my Lights level...but with a rollercoaster concept at the end :D I rushed it, so some of it doesn't work...and there's no lights lol BUT...you get the idea.
I have a few levels to catch up on! And yes, the rushing is a bit of stress. I'm not sure if I should float a tiny demo of my first level, what I can build now, or just hold off until the whole thing is complete.

Regards the PSEye, I correct myself on the lack of a texture library. Images are stored in the final pane texture options. I think the frame is captured as well, so you couldn't change your mind.

Overall PSEye across PS3 has been a real washout IMO. IT's not being used well, is offering lousy quality, isn't providing noise-cancellation audio chat etc. It's just a webcam at the moment. And one no-one cares to use going by Buzz. So much wasted potential... :(
 
You may want to publish your level anyway. The beta ends at 23.59 GMT tonight. And after that only published levels will remain, your save game and offline creations will be lost.
 
What?!?!??!?! All this work I've been doing in preparation is going to be wasted?!?! I guess most of the hours spent have been learning, since hearing levels were going to stay I assumed created content would as well.

I have to say, the online playing has been a toal flop so far. Way too buggy. Yesterday I tried Grand Theft Autio LittleBigCity. Played online, joined a game, and appeared right at the end, winning some stuff and points without even playing the level. Then I tried again, joined another person, and ended right at the end again. I followed them, into their pod, where they started decorating and I couldn't do anything.

A little while ago deepbrown asked to join me. I was building, so accepted and returned to my pod. Then I got an invite to join him. I accepted, moved to his pod, but he wasn't there. I could only see me. And then my Sackboy went mental! It seems like both of us were fused into the same character. Couldn't use the Start menu. Finally managed to get into deep's level (rollercoaster works very well. Loved the RPG-style loot-spewing chest!) but he wasn't there. Couldn't quit as Start menu still wouldn't stay on screen. Went to XMB to quit game, and the PS3 crashed out completely.

So apart from having a couple of people join me in my level-creation, I've had zero online play. And what's with the tagging system? I'm offered just a few options, totally at random it seems, so if I'm looking for 'Good' or 'Mechanical', I have to just keep saying 'none of the above' in the hopes an applicable tag appears. Then there are the blank tabs. Looking at the labelling of levels, it looks like a lot of people get bored with the tagging and choose any old thing, making it a nigh useless measure. I think a better list from which to choose is needed, rather than a random selection.
 
I have to say, the online playing has been a toal flop so far. Way too buggy. Yesterday I tried Grand Theft Autio LittleBigCity. Played online, joined a game, and appeared right at the end, winning some stuff and points without even playing the level. Then I tried again, joined another person, and ended right at the end again. I followed them, into their pod, where they started decorating and I couldn't do anything.

Well I've had fun online (if it's been laggy) - WRT your points, entering a level half-way through is something the creator is responsible for - he can add a 'no more players enter after this point'. As for going to other SB pods - you cn press start and return to your own pod.
 
What?!?!??!?! All this work I've been doing in preparation is going to be wasted?!?! I guess most of the hours spent have been learning, since hearing levels were going to stay I assumed created content would as well.

I have to say, the online playing has been a toal flop so far. Way too buggy. Yesterday I tried Grand Theft Autio LittleBigCity. Played online, joined a game, and appeared right at the end, winning some stuff and points without even playing the level. Then I tried again, joined another person, and ended right at the end again. I followed them, into their pod, where they started decorating and I couldn't do anything.

A little while ago deepbrown asked to join me. I was building, so accepted and returned to my pod. Then I got an invite to join him. I accepted, moved to his pod, but he wasn't there. I could only see me. And then my Sackboy went mental! It seems like both of us were fused into the same character. Couldn't use the Start menu. Finally managed to get into deep's level (rollercoaster works very well. Loved the RPG-style loot-spewing chest!) but he wasn't there. Couldn't quit as Start menu still wouldn't stay on screen. Went to XMB to quit game, and the PS3 crashed out completely.

So apart from having a couple of people join me in my level-creation, I've had zero online play. And what's with the tagging system? I'm offered just a few options, totally at random it seems, so if I'm looking for 'Good' or 'Mechanical', I have to just keep saying 'none of the above' in the hopes an applicable tag appears. Then there are the blank tabs. Looking at the labelling of levels, it looks like a lot of people get bored with the tagging and choose any old thing, making it a nigh useless measure. I think a better list from which to choose is needed, rather than a random selection.

I had control of your sackboy. I got us into my level. And I was there...i just chose to let you control your sackboy to see how far you could get :)

And none of your work is going to be lost. Really odd you though BETA saves would work with the full game. This is why I'm publishing mine. I can get it once the full game starts, and just copy it over to finish off my level...plus using the multitude of new tools.

And MM already said that the Beta build wasn't stable online.

And I don't believe the selection of tags is random...it shows the most tagged words so far.
 
Most bugs I've run into have to do with playing the game in co-op. Hopefully they have already fixed that in the full game. For now I'll just stick to playing online alone.

It's true that there are a lot of bad levels out there. Part of that is probably to do with people just learning how to create levels. Play testing is very important to keep level from breaking and making them fun to play. It is a time consuming process, but it really pays off. I've solved a lot of problems I've ran into building my level. It feels very satisfying finally getting it right.

People seem to like my level, and I got a more ideas on how to improve on it. I might even parodie Uncharted completely. Most things in that game should fit well within LBP.

When try to find the good levels online, I look at how many people have hearted it compared to how many people played it. I'll post a list of the level I've hearted, that should make it easier to find the good levels. You can also look at the levels your friends have hearted on the left planet.

These are the levels I've hearted.

Cthulian Scream.
Hollow Bastion.
GP Odd Mine of Ridiculous.
GAF- Lemming Blox.
Batman - Mission Arkham.
God of War - demon Skull
Metal Gear Solid: Return to Shadow Moses.
World of Colour.

Parodie-ing existing games seems popular.
 
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I had control of your sackboy. I got us into my level. And I was there...i just chose to let you control your sackboy to see how far you could get :)
Oh, okay. You weren't visible on my screen at all, although I saw bubbles disappearing!

And none of your work is going to be lost. Really odd you though BETA saves would work with the full game.
I didn't at first, but when they said online content would remain, I understood the structures to be in place that content was reuseable.

This is why I'm publishing mine. I can get it once the full game starts, and just copy it over to finish off my level...plus using the multitude of new tools.
That's an idea. Althoug short of a little vertex modelling, nothing I did is really such a loss. Lots of time was spent trial-and-error finding solutions.

And I don't believe the selection of tags is random...it shows the most tagged words so far.
I haven't noticed that at all. When viewing a level on LittleBigPlanet, there are three tags shown with it that I understand are the most popular tags. Looking at 'Metal Gear Rex', the three tags were something like Machine, Mechanised and Mechanical. Upon completing it I never came across any of those tags through lots of pages.

Edit : Another perfect example - I played one of the music levels where a wagon triggers notes. I clicked through pages after page of tags looking for something musical, but there wasn't one. On the third time of seeing a 'mechanical' tag, I picked that one, and guessed there wasn't a 'musical' tag option. Then in browsing levels, I saw a level that had the 'musical' tag. It was in there, I just couldn't find it when I wanted it.
 
I have to say, the online playing has been a toal flop so far. Way too buggy. Yesterday I tried Grand Theft Autio LittleBigCity. Played online, joined a game, and appeared right at the end, winning some stuff and points without even playing the level. Then I tried again, joined another person, and ended right at the end again. I followed them, into their pod, where they started decorating and I couldn't do anything.

That's odd. You should be able to decorate his room or exchange stuff. I got some peacock feathers from Jayden in deepbrown's pod. If the pod owner joins a new game, you would be able to play the new level from start to finish.

A little while ago deepbrown asked to join me. I was building, so accepted and returned to my pod. Then I got an invite to join him. I accepted, moved to his pod, but he wasn't there. I could only see me. And then my Sackboy went mental! It seems like both of us were fused into the same character. Couldn't use the Start menu. Finally managed to get into deep's level (rollercoaster works very well. Loved the RPG-style loot-spewing chest!) but he wasn't there. Couldn't quit as Start menu still wouldn't stay on screen. Went to XMB to quit game, and the PS3 crashed out completely.

Yeah... deepbrown is like a LBP wizard. He took me right out of a game into his level too. I was surprised he could do that. There are extensive online controls in LBP. We will have to learn how it works.

And what's with the tagging system? I'm offered just a few options, totally at random it seems, so if I'm looking for 'Good' or 'Mechanical', I have to just keep saying 'none of the above' in the hopes an applicable tag appears. Then there are the blank tabs. Looking at the labelling of levels, it looks like a lot of people get bored with the tagging and choose any old thing, making it a nigh useless measure. I think a better list from which to choose is needed, rather than a random selection.

Agreed. The system works when the world is small, but as content grows... people will get tired of tagging them properly.
 
Oh, okay. You weren't visible on my screen at all, although I saw bubbles disappearing!

I didn't at first, but when they said online content would remain, I understood the structures to be in place that content was reuseable.

That's an idea. Althoug short of a little vertex modelling, nothing I did is really such a loss. Lots of time was spent trial-and-error finding solutions.

I haven't noticed that at all. When viewing a level on LittleBigPlanet, there are three tags shown with it that I understand are the most popular tags. Looking at 'Metal Gear Rex', the three tags were something like Machine, Mechanised and Mechanical. Upon completing it I never came across any of those tags through lots of pages.

Edit : Another perfect example - I played one of the music levels where a wagon triggers notes. I clicked through pages after page of tags looking for something musical, but there wasn't one. On the third time of seeing a 'mechanical' tag, I picked that one, and guessed there wasn't a 'musical' tag option. Then in browsing levels, I saw a level that had the 'musical' tag. It was in there, I just couldn't find it when I wanted it.

You couldn't see me because I was your sackboy. We were both your sackboy. If you were moving oddly, that was me moving him. If the popit came up, that was me opening it. When you went into my level, that was me finding it and putting us in. :D As I said, I had possessed your sack boy lol.

And your examples don't prove that the tags aren't the most popular ones voted. Noone could find a musical tag, and so it's not in the top options. I'm not sure what happens when a level first goes up, but all the tags I'm given after I play levels that have been attempted by thousands, are the most popular tags.
 
That's odd. You should be able to decorate his room or exchange stuff. I got some peacock feathers from Jayden in deepbrown's pod. If the pod owner joins a new game, you would be able to play the new level from start to finish.



Yeah... deepbrown is like a LBP wizard. He took me right out of a game into his level too. I was surprised how he could do that. There are extensive online controls in LBP. We will have to learn how it works.



Agreed. The system works when the world is small, but as content grows... people will get tired of tagging them properly.

Online works when there's no lag. WIth lag, it's pretty bad...but so is any game. The online just needs to be more stable. Some people I can play with, some people I can't. In general I think Shifty and I are quite happy together...we just had an odd possession :D
 
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